here is my another shot of the standard layout

Here is my alternative layout with the sink moved to the opposite side. I seem to get more counter space, but there is an awkward corner to the left of the sink and I dont really like that you can see the side of the fridge as you walk in the room.

another shot of the alternative layout

here is the plan

current kitchen

current kitchen again

last current kitchen shot (looking across to breakfast room)

I will be removing the post in the above image.

I am swaying between standard and alternative layouts,.. but maybe there are more options? How about a more radical option where I use the breakfast room for D/W, sink and some bar seating on a peninsula? This would give more room in the main area for cooker and pantry - although I would still need a prep sink by the cooker I suppose. I am going to try to mock that up now.

Any input would be really appreciated! :-)

I'm not one of the layout gurus either. I like the alternative layout much better than the standard layout. I think that you have much more prep space between the sink and the range, where you need it. Perhaps you could bring the shelves around the corner into the awkward space to the left of the sink. Or, you could bring the counter around and break the tall cabinet into a bottom and an upper (even though you are eschewing uppers). The left side of the refrigerator could be made into a shallow pantry cabinet facing out toward the eating area, which would give it a more finished look AND give you a bit more storage space. I have a shallow cabinet like that and it's incredibly useful!

As you know, I like option #2 better. But that full-length cupboard just kills the corner. I like justmakeit's suggestions, as the corner would feel less claustrophobic, and you could fit in a blind corner storage solution so that all your storage is somewhat accessible.

justmakeit, that's essentially what I'm doing in my kitchen remodel. Mine is very similar in size to fumet's, except it is open to the dining room, and the fridge wall is longer in mine.

Currently the side of my fridge is exposed, but my new cabinets will enclose the fridge, and add pantry cabinets facing the dining room. The picture shows the pantry wall twice as wide as the fridge is deep, because I have a weird bump-out there.

hi,

thanks for feedback! I have stolen your ideas and gone to v2 of the alternative layout! ;-) I tried the doors facing outwards but it looked weird to me having a side panel facing into the kitchen? I certainly get more useful counter space for food prep with this layout and there is a better separation between cooker and sink, which is good for the 2 of us working away in the kitchen, I guess.

I am not sure if I am "closing the kitchen in" with this design.. as the tall cupboard and fridge would feel like a big wall on your left as you walk in. hmm.. pros and cons.

another one of alternative layout v2

last one of alternative layout v2

hi,

alternative v3 image. this is the one my wife prefers.. and I think I might too.

hi again, I have tried a crazy (?) layout with the D/W and sink in the breakfast room with limited bar seating and more storage for plates, glasses etc. We do have a separate dining room so this will probably be used for proper sit down eating. I have put a little bar sink in the main kitchen for draining pasta and washing veg etc.. but is it practical?

What do you think? Madness?

another shot of crazy layout....

fumet -- do you have a floorplan of the crazy layout? The images give the impression that the only way in and out of the kitchen is through the back door, which I'm pretty sure is not what you've actually designed :-) Also, I can't quite tell where the limited bar seating is.

There's a lot to think about in the crazy layout version. One thing that springs to mind is that you may find the prep sink in an awkward space. Where will you chop? Squished over in the corner to the right of the stove?

If you're thinking of annexing the breakfast room to the kitchen, is there a way of putting the refrigerator there instead of the clean-up sink? (I think you mentioned this possibility about a million posts ago.) Then you could do with just one sink in the main part of the kitchen, and turn the breakfast room into a fabulous food pantry, with refrigerator well out of the prep zone and handy to the dining room.

The lower continuing around the corner on the alternative layout looks much better and much more functional. If you need uppers over it, then you need them. (I'm a function over form type.) But they look rather abrupt to my eye. It would look terrific to have the open shelves continue around the corner as well, if you can spare the enclosed storage space.

Your "crazy" layout is hard for me to read. The perspective of the 3D rendering throws things off. Before commenting I'd like to see a plain floorplan with measurements. Old school on graph paper if the software insists on 3D renderings.

I would nix any "crazy" layout for a London property.Seems perfectly feasible to get your main functions in the bigger rectangle and then the seating in the small area,logically,by the door to garden makes sense. In/out a garden door with a space to pause and sit/as well for small meals is the better of your layouts thus far.There are various renditions for the seating-small banquette/bistro table/built in counter with stools -any would be really stylish/fun/used regularly.

I don't think your "crazy" layout can work if you keep seating in that small area. If you have your food storage in the smaller room as justmakeit suggested and have bar seating on the right wall of the main room it might work better.

I have attached a plan of the crazy layout, there are 2 bar stools in the top room. Measurements in metric (sorry, converting didnt work in Home Designer) - I have attached impreial empty plan again.

I suppose I could chop to the left of the cooker, but then the prep sink is far away from that. I dont like having the cooker squeezed into a corner,.. so I cant move it further away from the prep sink to create a usable counter in between. hmmm.

I think I will try the idea of making the breakfast room into a pantry with fridge and cupboards and make some bar seating in the main kitchen. I havent tried that yet.

herbflavour - I think my alternative layout seems to be the best variation of what you're saying - although I need to work on the seating in the small area. I had a normal table with bench seating and it made the walls fairly inaccessible for storage purposes. I may try some counter seating in there!

fouramblues - Are you saying that I should remove the final remaining upper cabinet? I don't like it there and could probably do without it. I have a lot of cookware but most of it is quite attractive so could go on shelves.

My wife asked me to try a "freestanding" layout which seemed to only work as a wide galley design with optional butchers trolley at the bottom wall. It's a variation on Senas design from a billion posts ago! Killing the corner cabs allows me to move the cooker further from the sink which gives better prep area.. But overall I lose cabinet space (mostly horrible corner space) and more importantly counter space. I could make the butchers trolley with a hinged leaf counter that joins the main counter for when I really need the extra counter space. I am getting a friend/carpenter to make everything (hopefully) - so anything is possible I guess. Has anyone done this? Does it work?

imperial empty plan again

freestanding madness? I get more space to the right of the cooker between prep sink. There is a fridge and full height pantry on the right wall. Again, I would need some sort of seating and cleanup sink + D/W in the breakfast room.

I think I am going back to modifying my alternative layout for now.

one more question... If I put the cooker on the bottom wall,.. can I extract onto the right exterior wall somehow? My initial thoughts are that the ducting would be ugly, but there may be a nice creative solution?

thanks again for all your help so far!

Hi, I have done a layout of alternative v2. 3 stools in main kitchen. Got the main sink and d/w in there too with what looks like good counter space. Pantry and fridge in smaller area - with some unused space in there too. I built the wall out a bit to hide the side of the fridge, I could put some built in storage within that fake wall space for glasses and my ugly crockery etc.

I think I like this layout... but is there something glaringly bad about it?

another shot of alternative v2

another shot of alternative v2

Wow, you've been busy! I'm interested in the alternative v2 layout, which has some nice advantages (sleek looks, seating in kitchen...) but a couple of worries. The first one that springs to mind is: where can you set down the food you're taking out of the refrigerator? It really helps to have a counter nearby, especially as you'll be ferrying the food a bit of a distance into the cooking part of the kitchen.

The second worry is: that bit of a distance. (Yes, I know, I liked the idea of the small room as pantry originally!) Will it be too annoying to have to walk all the way into the small room for the cream you forgot you need for the sauce you're cooking? And then back again, while the sauce is bubbling too hard on the stove? I know these distances are not far, but they can still be annoying...

Which brings me to: where does food normally go after you get it from the fridge? Often it goes to the sink before it gets to the stove. So maybe it would make sense to put the sink on the wall opposite the stools, and put the stove on the bottom of the U. You could scootch the sink a bit closer to the window on the right of that run, and you'd have plenty of lovely prep room between it and the stove.

As for venting the stove, I know it can be done, but I don't know how in your particular house. In ours, in one of our early plans, the idea was to run the vent ducts between the ceiling and the floor upstairs, out to the external wall. Don't know if that will be possible/affordable for you, but worth inquiring.

I really admire how many possible layouts you've been thinking about -- very creative!

Hi, thanks for the encouragement, and your input!! Can't tell you how much it's appreciated!

I have added a small lower cab / cupboard next to the pantry in the smaller area. For use as setting own food when I am putting food in/out fridge/freezer. So,.. good point! I moved the radiators to accomplish that. One under the window in the small area, one under the bar seating area in the corner to warm the feet when eating breakfast.

The distance from major prep area (to left of cooker) to fridge is now 11 foot, which was around 5 foot before so it is almost twice as far which is not ideal. But... I think the positives outweigh the negatives, it's not a crazy distance and I think it is still doable. The pantry is even a little further, but I can keep oft-used items in a closer cupboard it if becomes annoying.

I have looked into venting to the side wall and would need unsightly ducting - with no upper cabinets to hide it. Possible venting above goes into the spare bedroom floor which would then need to go through all the joists to get outside.. its a shame the joists run in that direction in that room or it would have been much easier. Anyway, I think running that length of ducting with a 90 degree bend would have seriously compromised the venting performance.

Also, I think having kids (which we hope to have) sitting at the bar area as far away from the cooker as possible makes sense too... so the alternative v3 layout works well in that regard.

I think this is my favourite layout so far. The amount of counter space is great and the separation of cooker to sink is good too. Next up is getting a builder in to confirm that the plumbing is no problem there. And also convince the wife that its a good idea. She fears change.

Unless,... there is another layout option out there. But I think my creativity has run dry for the moment!

Thanks again!

Hi,

Think I spoke to soon. I have modified the alternative and created v4 where I have swapped the upper cabs with the shelves. I think I prefer v3 as I think it will feel more spacious as your enter the kitchen and I think I hate upper cabs above sinks,.. but I dont know why.

Maybe v4 will give better headroom when sitting at the bar area though? Is this ever a problem when sitting under upper cabs?

I'm glad you're happy with your layout progression! You're the one who needs to be happy with your new kitchen.

BUT... Personally, I'd want all the kitchen functions in the one larger room. You could have a wonderfully efficient space. As soon as you start expanding into the breakfast area, the functions become too far separated for my liking, and in some the breakfast area looks claustrophobic. Besides, I'd love to sit and have a cup of tea in that nice space looking into the garden.

But to each his own! :)

hi fouramblues. I definitely haven't made my mind up on this and welcome your comments. I am still really between the 2 ways. Form vs Function. hmmm.

I think its time to leave it for a few days and then look at all the images and designs with fresh eyes on the weekend.

Thanks everyone who has helped me out.. it's been incredibly useful! I will be back v soon with the next phase, and to hopefully help others out!!