I realize that this is a dated thread. However, the last comment leaves a negative impression about herbal medicines. I have hypertension and an inquisitive and scientific mind and checked out Eric's conclusion that hawthorn is mutagenic. The mutagenic testing in the cited research paper was done with quercetin at 98% minimum purity purchased from Sigma Chemical Co. This study did not look at the many glycosylated forms of quercetin that are very prevalent with hawthorn. There are many publications that explain that hawthorn extract has many medicinal components. One recent summary goes into great detail about hawthorn's 49 distinct flavonoid compounds 5 hydroxycinnamic acids; six sugars; 10 organic or phenolic acids; 26 terpenes; and 56 essential oil constituents. Nature's pharmacy is awe-inspiring! I researched mutagenic testing on the hawthorn extract that is prepared for dosing patients. Sadly, I cannot find published data on the Ames test for hawthorn extract by itself. There is an interesting study where hawthorn is used in combination with valerian and passion flower. This study concludes that there are no harmful effects caused by the herbal mixture. The paper states " this extract does not posess any genotoxic or mutagenicity effect: both the Ames test and the micronuclei test presented negative results". Also, searching Pubmed shows many publications where hawthorn is safe and effective over the long term. I have the impression that Eric _OH dismisses ethnobotanical knowledge is being out of date and primitive. I disagree. I think that many of our ancestors were wise healers and lived long and productive lives with the help of herbal medicines. A 2012 review in Phytochemistry explains that many Indian tribes in numerous First Nations used hawthorn. The Meskwaki, Blackfoot, Ojibwa, Potawatomi, Okanagon, Okanagan-Colville, Iroquois, and Cherokee all used the berries and/or various decoctions of the shoots, roots, and bark of different Crataegus species. The Cherokee and Thompson also used decoctions of the bark as a heart medicine. In traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), hawthorn fruits are primarily used to improve circulation, remove blood stasis, and treat indigestion, diarrhea, abdominal pain, hyperlipidemia, and hypertension. In Europe, the fruits, leaves, and flowers were traditionally used in the treatment of heart problems for their antispasmodic, cardiotonic, hypotensive, and antiatherosclerotic effects. In summary, it appears to me that hawthorn is a great choice for treating hypertension. I hope to share personal experience once I wean myself off of Metoprolol with the help of my physician.

bee, I'm on blood pressure meds and also trying to lose weight. I'm sticking as close to 1200 calories a day as posible and eaying anything I want up to that amount - Well really not so, as I have to watch my Vitamin K intake as well because I am on blood thinners, so can't have everything I want. I am striving to lose 1 pound a week as I feel that is much better than a lot in a short time. So far I have lost 43 pounds. I post each week on the support topic. Eveyone is a great help. Why don't you try that rather than taking a chance with a diet that might/might not harm you. I found that when I lost weight quickly I didn't keep it off. All the best and keep us in the loop

I am 73 years old. Some 30 years ago, my BP started going up, and I was advised to reduce salt. I did it and monitored my BP every day, and watched it go down gradually but steadily. and it stayed down for a few years. Then it started climbing again, and I started taking anti-hypertensive medications. I now take two different such medications to keep my BP within normal range, and I watch my diet. Eliminating salt from your diet is very difficult because so many things contain salt. It's not just avoiding the salt shaker and avoiding salt in the food you cook. Most people do not know it, but milk, bread and most cold cuts and cheeses contain salt. Meats and fishes also contain some salt. The only things that contain no salt are potatoes, fruit and veggies, rice, grains, beans and unsalted nuts. You can accustom your taste buds to "like" unsalted food and, after a few weeks, you will find even lightly salted things too salty and wonder how you ever ate them. Depending on your personal situation, you might make life very complicated for the people you live with. If you decide to embark on this low sodium effort, make sure your BP elevation is not so high as to pose a serious risk, because you could do yourself harm if you do not get your BP under control promptly. Another thing to consider is that some people with high BP have a form of the disease that is particularly salt-sensitive. They respond especially well to reduced sodium intake. If your illness is not of that type, then you will probably eventually find that sodium restriction does not afford you the degree of BP control that you need, and you will have to start taking medication. Of you can try calcium supplements, but they can be constipating. The cheapest and for most people safest starting antihypertensive medication is hydochlorthiazide (HCZT), which is available as a generic and costs less than $20 per month. It's a very safe drug, and you will probably not experience any unpleasant side effects. Blood pressure control is one of the few areas where the drug industry has succeeded very well. The available treatments are highly effective and extremely safe. You will hardly know you are taking any medication, and the "silent killer" can be kept safely at bay.

I just saw these posts! I am so scatterbrained, it's often embarrassing. jerzee, there's GOOD news, actually, and it's held for two days now so I guess I can post it: I've gotten 119/79ish (yesterday was something like 119/83, so same area) in the am!! PM it goes to 145/93, but there's definitely a change in the mornings. I called my doc yesterday to deliver the news and of course she never got back to me. I think I could die of something she should have noticed and she'd shrug and laugh. NOT a good feeling about a doctor. Off to a better practice, even if it costs more. The atenolol is slowing down my heartbeat too, but not as slow as yours! Mine is now in the 70s, whereas it used to be in the 80s/90s. I'm getting the *slightest* feeling of what life must be like for my DH, who has a heartbeat in the 50s, usually. VERY different, in a good way, yes? :) sjerin, I'm glad your mom's heart surgery went well--I was thinking about her the other day when I read an article about how older folks are having surgery more often now. I hope she recovers fast and uneventfully and goes back to marathoning :) (we live in hope :)) May I ask how much atenolol your family members took? I'm on 50 now, at bedtime, but am wondering if 100 at bedtime might be better to keep the bp down all day. I sure do get good sleep at night, though. I might be tired like your family during the day if I up the dose. I read something interesting--that walking on cobblestones was found to be better for lowering blood pressure than prescription medications! It's been confirmed and published, even...and you can buy cobblestone mats to walk on!