Nail pops... lots of 'em in a short time frame

macgyvers2000

9 years ago

Visited a 1.5-yo home 6 weeks ago and everything looked great. Just revisited it and there were nail pops galore in every room on the top floor (obviously the trusses are shifting). I have no idea if the current owners just repaired/repainted any prior pops.

What surprised me is the speed at which so many "popped" up (no pun intended). 6 weeks seems like an awfully short time, so now I wonder if this particular house will be prone to popping all of the time. I did not notice any large shifts in the weather over this time period (in Maryland).

Thoughts on underlying cause, as well as any (semi-)permanent remedies? I don't think I'd want a place that requires constant patching.

Featured Answer

manhattan42

9 years ago

"Popping" nails or screws is usually caused by changes in moisture levels, and those moisture level changes occur within the wood framing members themselves.

When that occurs, it is likely due to normal 'drying' of the lumber or in an existing house, due to changes in the (air) 'conditioning' of the home from summer to winter.

But that said, you may be surprised to discover that the nail pops are not really caused by the house 'settling' or changes in moisture content in the lumber.

There is a growing recognition amongst builders and code inspectors that the culprit is the drywall itself.

The drywall?

Yes, the drywall.

Why?

Most builders now use 'lightweight' drywall.

The trend began about 4 years ago.

Not only is 'lightweight' drywall actually lighter in weight, and therefore easier to physically handle and install...it also costs much less than standard drywall board.

The problem is, (and a problem that drywall manufacturers refuse to admit), is that unlike standard weight drywall, lightweight drywall itself actually 'shrinks' and 'expands' with changes in humidity.

Rather than producing traditional nail 'pops'... which are typically concave indentations in standard drywall caused by drying of studs...and which pulls the fasteners "in"...

"Pops" caused by lightweight drywall 'shrinkage' are evidenced by fasteners protruding "OUT" from the lightweight drywall surface...as the drywall itself changes thickness with less humidity.

How is this possible?

Drywall manufacturers won't admit that the lightweight 'fillers' they use which adds rigidity to the board and which decreases its weight, are also hydrophilic, that is, they absorb moisture and expand when they do.
-----------------------

I was recently made aware of the problem by a townhouse developer and builder whose homes I regularly inspect as the Building Official.

He took me through his 20 or so townhomes he built over the last 5 years and showed me where he stopped using standard drywall and began using 'lightweight' drywall.

The conditions of installation were the same.

It became IMMEDIATELY apparent that there was something amiss when he switched to 'lightweight' drywall:

No 'pops' before...
'Pops' all over ever since....

He has since gone back to using standard weight drywall and his problems have disappeared....

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (13)

bus_driver
9 years ago
My suspicion is that the framing was too wet when the drywall was applied and as the framing dried, it shrank. The nails are still tight in the wood, but the wood shrinking leaves the nail protruding a bit more from the wood-- and the drywall.
macgyvers2000
Original Author
9 years ago
I'd agree... if this was brand new construction, but the home is going on 2 years now. Any moisture left in them is going to match with ambient conditions. We were in the place a few days ago with a boatload of pops, whereas just 6 weeks before that there were none.

I can only guess at this point (at least until someone else comes up with a better idea) that the A/C was left off for an extended period of time (high-end home being sold a year or two after purchase... owners may be short on money), but I did not notice any mold/mildew, so no visible damage, if any.
Related Discussions
Finish Nails for Decks?
Q
Comments (6)
Thanks for your quick response. You both confirmed what I suspected. Please share your (negative I assume) experience with Tigerclaw hidden fasteners. Procell pushes them for their products big time. I have heard and read about problems with deck screws that mushroom no matter what installation methods you use predrill, countersink, etc.). Does this hold true for Procell also? As you know it is not a composite material but a 'pure' vinyl material, not sure that matters for fastening. What is your preferred brand/style of deck screw? Thanks again, Scott
...See More
framing nails vs screws
Q
Comments (26)
Thank you all for your coments I read them all, because I am an electrician with 23 yrs under my belt. Now I am helping my son remodel and when it comes to framing I am a good Electrician. We built our first wall today, what a night mare. He wanted to use screws, but, I said "no" cause I new there was a reason you guys swing those hamers or shoot your guns. We had hell I got the right nails but again, sparky cant hit a nail and dont know the tricks, however, my son (very head strong) had it in his head how to build it with screws, however, I got nails and as I am buying them. Then he tried to build what was in his head, I wish I would have gotten screws cause what a cluster fck that was. My hat is off to you guys no wonder you are usually the General Contractor on the job cause you no what to nail in first. We did use the pilot drill method and it worked great but my god If in I had to build a house with nails I would shoot myself for lack of hitting the head. Thank you for the help and keep posting and if I can help you with any electrical needs let me know cause I am way out of my depth on buildig things. Thanks
...See More
Nail gun? Hammer? Finishing nails for wood trim?
Q
Comments (12)
Hammer, nails, and nail set----making sure the nail set is the correct size for the finish nail being used(I have three different sized nail sets.) Since you already have the nails, it will be less expensive to buy a nail set---or a nail set set(A set of three or so different sized nail sets). You want to use a smooth faced hammer as well. There is a chance you will miss and dent the wood----but, with a pneunatic nailer there are several bad things that can happen as well----all worse than dented wood trim. Nail blowouts split the wood, or can stab fingers. Nails not buried far enough---a real bear to sink when that happens as most small nail sets are too large for air finish nails. Predrill just the trim, that allows the nails to go in easier as well as protecting from splits.
...See More
Can we all agree to drop the word "pop" as in "a pop of color"?
Q
Comments (132)
Re: vocal fry "See - Christina from Flip or Flop, Tina on Vintage Flip and 99% of the women on House Hunters Reno" You nailed that one, Chijim. Christina may be one of the worse offenders, but then I never watch Vintage Flip. I have to mute the TV when Christina speaks or else I cannot watch that show. I simply change channels when HHR is on and someone has an annoying voice. As for "Pop of color" - I am reminded of a project given to my 2-D design class, in which we had to create a geometric abstract watercolor painting and use only one fully saturated color, but it was not called "pop of color" at the time, although it served that function. The lesson was that only one saturated color should be used at a time, but this rule was lost on Piet Mondrian. My painting started out with both red and blue at pretty much full intensity, but I still felt that the blue receded. The teacher made me dull the blue for that project, but I'm not sure it helped the final result.
...See More
User
9 years ago
Nail pops in a ceiling are almost certainly a product of trusses being wet when installed. As they dry, the wood moves and if they reabsorb moisture, the wood again moves. Trusses are usually in a non conditioned attic. However, if the attic is vented with a power vent and that was turned off, moisture could be a symptom.

There is one other factor. The structure is probably beginning to settle.
macgyvers2000
Original Author
9 years ago
I can handle settling, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything serious that would cause this.

Thanks!
sherwoodva
9 years ago
Mac, before you buy, have a building engineer go over the house, especially the foundation and the roof. (Someone better than the average "home inspector.") An inspection is cheap compared to buying a house that is a lemon. You have to ask if the owners are telling the truth about why they are selling so soon.
PRO
Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting
9 years ago
manhattan42 ^^^ good to know, thanks
alan_s_thefirst
9 years ago
I'd be concerned about foundations etc as well as overall building quality.

Builder may have gone broke or something, do have an engineer look at it.
macgyvers2000
Original Author
9 years ago
Toll Brothers is the builder, so feel free to rant or rave either way. Overall, I think their build quality is relatively high.

I have not heard of this new "lightweight" drywall, but I will certainly dig into it more deeply. Upon closer inspection, the nails are definitely coming OUT of the wall and pushing through the topcoat. It looks like a standard smooth-shank nail, not a ring-shank, so there's little to no gripping power there.

If we end up with the house, I will replace pops as they happen with screws before covering.
macgyvers2000
Original Author
9 years ago
Had the home inspected earlier this week, and I believe I've found the cause...

The vast majority of the pops are on the interior walls, and only on the upper floor. There are several dormers on the roof... real windows, but no living space up there. The windows, however, are not painted or covered in any way, so my supposition is the sun heats up that area of the attic, tweaks the rafters, then the nighttime allows them to tweak back. A few weeks of this and you're bound to get pops.

When we move in I'll throw up some dark curtains, then put up some heavy tint when Spring rolls around. It should be obvious pretty quickly if that's the cause...
manhattan42
9 years ago
I highly doubt heating and cooling in the attic is the cause, otherwise every home in the world would have nail pops caused by the seasonal heating and cooling of the attic spaces.

Changes in lumber dimension is also not caused as much by heating and cooling alone than it is by changes in the moisture content of lumber.

Without severe changes in moisture content or humidty, the lumber will remain stable in dimension regardless of changes in heat.

That said, what you are describing are nail 'protrusions' not nail 'pops'.

Nail 'pops' dimple into the drywall not out of the drywall.

Pops are caused by lumber shrinking or changes in moisture content.

'Protrusions' are caused by the drywall shrinking.
macgyvers2000
Original Author
9 years ago
Considering the "protrusions" are 1/4"+ of nail in some spots, that would equate to 1/2"+ drywall shrinking by 50%... I'd call that impossible, unless we're talking about a cumulative movement of the nail as the drywall shrinks/expands a tiny fraction every day, carrying the nail outwards each time.
HU-112633411
2 years ago
I AM SPEAKING OF A HOME THAT IS ALMOST 7 YRS OLD AND WE ARE HAVING SEVERAL NAIL POPS IN THE LIVING ROOM AND ONE BATHROOM.

Nail pops... lots of 'em in a short time frame

manhattan42

Comments (13)

bus_driver

macgyvers2000
Original Author

Related Discussions

User

macgyvers2000
Original Author

sherwoodva

Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

alan_s_thefirst

macgyvers2000
Original Author

macgyvers2000
Original Author

manhattan42

macgyvers2000
Original Author

HU-112633411

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Nail pops... lots of 'em in a short time frame

Comments (13)

macgyvers2000Original Author

Related Discussions

macgyvers2000Original Author

macgyvers2000Original Author

macgyvers2000Original Author

macgyvers2000Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

macgyvers2000
Original Author

macgyvers2000
Original Author

macgyvers2000
Original Author

macgyvers2000
Original Author

macgyvers2000
Original Author