I am really enjoying this discussion! Rosefolly, again, passion. Yes, if you really long for alpines, I certainly wouldn't tell you not to grow them. Gardening is about passion, after all! It's always up to the individual gardener to decide how much he/she wants to invest in growing a given plant, and what degree of success will be satisfactory. My own tendency, which is partly philosophical and partly temperamental, is to try to adapt myself to my conditions. I'll dig and mulch and weed and water at the start, and I site plants with great care, but I won't go much further, with irrigation systems or winter protection, for example. My garden philosophy isn't everybody's, though, and there's no reason it should be. Part of my joy is meeting the challenge of adaptation; another gardener's might be the challenge of impossible conditions. I heartily agree that the garden will be a mishmash if there are no restraints. This thread is, after all, titled 'The Value of Limits'. Ornamental gardening has an aesthetic component, to utter a tautology. Regardless of what the gardener grows, to make a beautiful garden she/he has to consider plant textures and architecture, bulks and empty spaces, colors, light and shade. I tend to think that respecting the environmental limitations of a site will tend to produce a more stylistically coherent garden. The assemblage of plants will seem more 'natural' because they're plants whose relatives would be found growing together in nature. When I started this thread I didn't link the title well with the content. What I was trying to say was that by respecting the basic ecological character of a garden site and trying to work with it, the resulting garden would be more individualistic, and at the same time more coherent, than if it were subjected purely to the workings of the author's own imagination and desires. Nature as collaborator, not as enemy! "I agree in landscaping there is too much repetition, but my garden is my own and I couldn't care less whether it resembles someone elses, it's my experience/experiment and not for others' amusement."--greenwitch YES!!! I suspect this is the only way to have an original garden--to not care whether it's like or unlike anyone else's. I totally agree. I also don't care whether a plant is rare or common (though I can get sick of a plant I see grossly overused), just whether it works in my garden and is beautiful. And I don't care about what's fashionable in gardening. Ha. The only value to fashion, that I've ever seen, is that it brings plants into the nurseries that weren't there before, that might be useful. Gray-leaved aromatic plants are ever welcome in my garden, and ornamental grasses not, no matter what the dernier cri may be. Well, okay, fashion offers new suggestions of beauty, to add to my mental catalog, and perhaps I'll profit from the suggestions one day. Anyway, greenwitch, I think what you say is exactly right and very important. I do have two blueberries in an old bathtub. I know I can grow anything is a container, but plants in containers are too vulnerable for me to be comfortable with the situation, except for my succulents. By the way, on the subject of 'banal' (my word) plants--no plant is banal if the gardener is in love with it. robiniaquest: I have an Italian friend whose hobby is old fruit trees, and who loves figs. He says that figs are hardier than they're often given credit for in the U.S., but that gardeners in the States make the mistake of generously fertilizing and watering their figs and so the trees make a lot of succulent growth and then freeze in the winter. As you say, anyone who wants to grow plants that are a little tender for their zone, or in need of some extra warmth, needs to know how to take advantage of a wall. Even here my rosemary likes to have a wall to lean against or a masonry pillar to wrap itself around, and I overwinter my potted succulents in a cool greenhouse rigged up against the southfacing wall of our house. My neighbors have a rosemary planted against the west-facing masonry wall of an outbuilding (in this orientation it's also sheltered from the cold winds, which come from the east), and it must be the biggest plant of rosemary I've ever seen. A protective wall and decent drainage would probably help your fig project, too: how is your tree placed? Melissa

Hello, i'm new to this, but felt i really needed to reach out because i feel i'm at my darkest hour and i really need someone to tell me i'm not alone. I have two children, ages 19 (daughter) and 16(son), their father and i divorced 6 years ago, and under special circumstances, he was the primary guardian and i the secondary one. In 2007 i made the worst decision of my life, i had gotten remarried to someone in Jordan, i was only supposed to be there for three months. 1 year and a half later, i finally managed to escape and come back home. My ordeal in Jordan was severely traumatic, i was severely abused, tortured, and left for dead. I remember calling my ex-husband here in canada to help me because i knew i would die there if someone didn't get me out, what i got was 'you made your bed, you can lie in it, as for the children, if you ever want to see them again, you'll have to go through family court'. When i heard the dial tone i felt all was lost. Somehow, i made it back, the only thing keeping me alive everyday i was tortured was the thought of seeing my children again ( my children and i were extremely close before i left, and i never foresaw that my passport and all my ID would be taken,,). Once i came back i was in for a huge shock. In the time that i was gone, it didn't take long for my ex-husband to tell the children that i had chosen to stay and didn't want anything to do with them. They were so young, and he broke their hearts, i never knew any of this until i had come back. I came back in 2009 and i have tried everything, i was patient and i loved them without bounds, and over and over again i tried to prove myself to them, but the damage has been done. With all of this, i moved back with my parents and my children are with their father on a military base. They are only 4 hours away, but i am not to call, write, or even visit. My daughter has told me she wants nothing to do with me, as for my son, his father has told him he wants nothing to do with me, but that if he wants to he can. What child would ever go against their parent if they're the one with the money and house, etc.? I'm in school and am graduating in about 2 weeks. Once i get a salary, i'll be saving money to get my own place, etc. Not a night goes by where i don't cry or miss my children so much that the pain is killing me everyday, i really feel i have no purpose in life anymore, my children were my world, and they don't want to have anything to do with me, it's been like this since i left, but even worse since 2009. My daughter has openly admitted that she could not care if i lived or died and wants no communication from me, as for my son, he will not communicate at all, they have my phone number and email,,but nothing,,,i feel this pain will completely crush me and i have no idea what to do,,,the oeverwhelming hatred i feel for my ex is also wearing me out,,,i just want to know if things do get better as time goes by, and if it doesn't, how do i go on living when i hear their voices in my head from when they were young children all the time?

Giftcards have their usefullness. I've heard of inactivity fees, but never experienced it first hand. I give a few giftcards a year. I give them for consumables (coffee shop, restaurant), because I obviously cannot give the teacher 4 cups of coffee for a gift. But I can treat her to 4 cups of coffee at her convenience with a giftcard, if I know she drinks coffee. If not, another place. And you can add my name to Jodi's wishlist. Give me a Barnes & Noble (any bookstore, that's just closest to my house) gift card, and I'll be a very happy girl! When someone gives me one of those, I know they know what I want. Forget the diamonds, books are this girl's best friend- but it's hard to buy a book for someone else, it's best to let them pick it. And I have a B&N discount card, so I will get more than face value of the card, by up to 40%.

On Wednesday I received my first ever senior discount. The cashier was ringing me up and then said that I'm not 55 or over, am I? I was kind of caught off guard but responded that yes, I am 55 but it was the first time I had ever been asked. It struck me as funny and I was laughing telling people that I just received my first ever senior discount. No one laughed with me, or congratulated me. I must have looked like as idiot. But at least I don't look 55! LOL