I'll always believe there are far more reputable, quality minded builders/trades people out there than the type you are describing. Your first mistake is not getting more than one estimate involved. You should seek out referalls from family, friends, co-workers for succesful contractors they have dealt wth, or go to reputable suppliers and get referalls there. Always ask/check references and whenever possible, ask to see current and past projects.

I worked for a builder who wore wing tips and polyester dress pants/dress shirts and often put his nail bags on and got in there getting down and dirty with the rest of us. Dont judge their clothing style, judge their work!

Well, at least you're not bitter.

I appreciate your comments on my (to say the least) sightly sarcastic post.

FYI, I DID get other bids before and after him. And, NO, I don't judge a person by what they wear, how they speak or their ethnicity or anything that has nothing to do with how the conduct their business. I was just trying to describe the complete picture of this guy. Another thing that turned me off on him was he constantly peppered his pontificating w/ethnic and racial slurs. Nice, huh?

Every job (no matter how small or mundane) has its finite points and nuances according to the job site involved.

He is - as they say in the sales trade - "A Front Man". Never gets his hands dirty or shows the potential customer respect. Who wants to give their money to someone whose only response to "how will you address this or that" is: "Let ME worry about that. It'll all come out perfect in th end." 'Scuse me, but...was that the back of an apple truck I just fell off of?

My wife (rightly so) didn't trust a man who expected us to take him on faith and "his word" and w/o question that the job would be done to our satisfaction. But I didn't want to scratch a potential good job just because of personality issues because I DID get referrals about him and that apparently his work was good. So the only way my wife and I could actually make a true comparison with what he'd do and what the other guys who bid would do, was she called his business manager and said we'd 'consider' signing if he'd come out. Operative word there being: "consider". When he came, w/contract in hand, only to find that he had to field questions and explain what he'd do, he blew off at my wife and said she had "some nerve misleading him" and that he was highly offended she didn't trust him and NOW he didn't trust her and now HE wouldn't want to do business with someone so paranoid.

It was at that point I stepped in between him and my wife while he was waving the contract in my wife's face and said: "This conversation is over. No one talks to my wife like. We only said to Mary that we'd 'consider'. Now that's off the table. It's we who don't want to do business with you or anyone else who'd expect to get our hard-earned money and do work in our home w/o coming to see the job beforehand. I thought we'd give you the benefit of the doubt by finally finding out exactly what you'll do. Now, I don't give a da*m. And don't throw your BBB record at me like I should be impressed. Anyone who knows anything about BBB ratings know that for the most part they mean squat."

Oh, and another thing to add to that list of Beware's: Beware the contractor/installer or whomever that throws their "years of experience" at you. Again - squat. All those years he/she could have been doing it wrong.

You're right, sierraeast, it's the quality of the work that counts. But if you can't get past someone who shows you no respect and is - yes - so arrogant and God forbid you ask questions along the way ...then I don't care if they would have done the best job in the world. I guess I'll never know now, will I?

Sure sorry for that experience(s) with the arrogancy as well as the lack of respect, but the worst scenario would be how your wife was treated and she can be proud of how you handled it. If someone dissed my wife like that, I would probably end up in the pokey.

It's idiots like that who ruin the trades reputation as a whole and give the industry a bad rap, similar to doctors, lawyers, mechanics, etc. There's good, honest one's out there to be found, you have to do your homework and write off those who come across non-professionally and stick with the good ones when you find 'em. Best of luck in the future!

I don't judge a person by...how they speak or their ethnicity or anything that has nothing to do with how the conduct their business.

Sure you do!

he constantly peppered his pontificating w/ethnic and racial slurs.

And good for you!

This morning phoned one of the guys who had the decency to come to our home and go over everything w/us. Told him it's a "Go" and I was mailing out the signed contract w/a deposit today.

I still get a little (hah) fired up when I think about Mr. Wonderful, but he's history. So, maybe the guy I ultimately did hire doesn't prove to be 100% satisfactory, well, isn't it all a gamble in the end no matter how much research and references you get? Like you said, sierreast, that can unfortunately be said for doctors and lawyers. :(

Even if I had known for absolute certainty that Mr. Wonderful would have done a rip-snortin, better job - and I decided to play the odds and go with him - he blew those odds out of the park with all his hot air.

your not alone we finished (sorta) a remodel last June and at the beginning of the job we really liked our contractor and believed in him. When he started the job he convinced us that our Architect didn't know what he was doing and we should cut him loose. Later we came to realize this was the contractors way of getting free will to do what he feels right on regardless of the plans. The contractor would always fall back on the fact that he couldn't do work because it wasn't per plan, which was acceptable at times but then would completely overlook other details on the plans (on purpose) which we didn't realize till it was too late.

Our contractor was so slippery he would never take blame for any mistakes (and he made alot). He would always find someone else to blame. He also didn't play well with others if there was work that I was doing or had a special sub (like a door installer) he was terrible about coordinating and scheduling the work to prevent delays. He showed me some fancy Project plan at the beginning of the job but never updated it, then would refer to it months later.

There were also some horrendous mistakes by the structural Engineer and Architect as well. The sad part is we put a great deal of trust and cash into people who were suppose to be professionals and give us proper guidance. This was not a case and I have very little respect for the industry now.

That said in order to get the job completed I had to find my own subs on various projects and I met some very honest and hard working people that helped me complete my remodel.

What I am most bitter about is that these so called professionals not only go paid for all their mistakes on my home they will be able to use this experience to enhance their business in the future. Having been screwed so bad on this remodel I don't anticipate doing any more renovations ever again and thus not being able to take advantage of everything I learned. The best I can do is to warn people of remodeling pit falls and to make people aware that the only people that have your best interest at heart is yourself.

Just had to get my two cents in, thanks for listening and BEWARE!

jef1 and rockerdoctor: Welcome to the club!!! There really are some really bad contractors out there and you are not alone! We went through the same thing, BUT, we took over the remodel and we are so pleased with the ethics, great work and honesty of our team. jef1, my incompetent, unethical, contractor yelled at me when I quetioned his competency. The silver lining in all of this is to pay attention to the signs and go with your gut.

I just experienced a terrible contractor. I hired someone to rebuild a broken block column. I should of seen the red flags from the get go. Insisted I call him not text him even though that was the only form of anything I got in writing as for the job and what I am to pay. He told me their was going to be a 2"gap that he will need retrofit a metal beam to compensate. I noticed that he set the blocks a few inches in from where they originally were, obviously where his "gap" came from. When I brought this to his attention he would tell me that the block is perfect and my gate will look beautiful when it's done. I had already paid him $200 cash and insisted on a receipt that he marked paid in full even though I still owe him $70 (very sketchy on this). Long story short my gate looks like Frankenstein have it a bandaid and when I told the contractor I was unhappy with the workmanship he complained that I was just trying to get out of paying him the $70!?! Needless to say I am filing a complaint with the ROC!

"Needless to say I am filing a complaint with the ROC!"

A complaint for what and who is the ROC? Not having a contract? Is he a contractor? Did you check his license? Insurance? References? Were permits pulled (they should have been)? You may want to rethink filing your complaint..........

Why should she not file a complaint?

I am not saying she shouldn't but she is talking about $200 for a project with no contract with someone who may not even be a contractor. If no permits were pulled she may have more issues on her hands by alerting the building dept. Also I said MAY WANT TO RETHINK, never said not too.

If he's doing lousy work, is not licensed, etc., and is selling himself as a professional contractor, the authorities ought to know.

Yes but if the HO hired him at 7-11 to do some work at her house with no permits and no intention of getting them and was basically paying labor under the table she may not want to.

I won't come to your house for less than $270.00, even if I'm there 5 minutes and this person got a whole gate job for that.

What makes you think she was doing something wrong? If he doesn't get permits (if they are even required) or doesn't pay taxes on the money he makes, that is on him. A homeowner may not even know what a permit is and certainly wouldn't know how he reports his income.

Around here, a lot of licensed contractors do not get permits when they are, in fact, required. The township can not legally do anything to anyone so these businesses don't worry about it. I would guess if it is a large project the township could want to be bothered with stopping the job to collect their fees.

"I won't come to your house for less than $270.00, even if I'm there 5 minutes and this person got a whole gate job for that."

Apparently this person did not get anything for their $200.

The businessman has also determined his own terms for work, which she accepted.

I used the "arrogant contractor" close today.

I was getting sick of listening to a potential customer whine about a $200.00 range in the price I was quoting him and basically told him so.

I'm replacing his sink next week.

$200 is a lot of money. I don't understand what you are talking about anyway.

Property owner is ultimately responsible for all permits, following all rules and regulations and obtaining necessary inspections. In my area, building department sometimes requires homeowners to pay permit fees for bathrooms added 20-30-40+ years ago.

What do you expect to get for $200? No legitimate tradesman with insurance and business premises and a full set of tools is going to build you a gate for $200. Sounds to me like you were happy with the price he quoted and didn't inquire much further. Where did you find the guy and did you see you any photos of previous projects or get addresses or phone numbers of previous clients?

Consider this $200 job to be a test project for whether you had found a new small project guy...you didn't, so move on.

"The township can not legally do anything to anyone "

It's weird but when I hear talk like that I remember in the movie Green Mile when Percy told Brutus he couldn't make him stick his arms in the straight jacket. Brutus' reply as he reached for Percy's ears "oh that's where you're wrong". Have you never heard of townships making homeowners tear out additions that were not permitted?

Say what? Around here, they can't do anything nor do they pursue. Otherwise, there would be a whole lot of trouble.

Blame those who classify themselves as pros. Not the laypeople who are just tryiing to get some work done.

I was going to say....this thread was a good read, but there should also be a thread titled "Beware the Arrogant Customer" If you had bad experiences with a contractor, this doesn't mean they are all bad. When I have bad experiences with a customer, this doesn't mean they are all bad. Some people are bad. Some people are contractors and others are customers. Sometimes it rains. Think about that.

I think Jesse lost interest in the discussion so we'll probably never know what an ROC is.

I found it for you you JDS...

According to Wikipedia it is one of these -

Good thing it is a myth...If that thing crapped on your windshield...

Funny bry!