Mortar Cracking Connecting Tread to Porch

bobby1973

9 years ago

Hi folks, last Spring I hired a hardscaping contractor to install a new set of steps leading to my front porch. I just recently began noticing cracking the mortar which connects the top bluestone tread to the concrete porch. I'm attaching two photos for reference which I just took yesterday. The cracking seems to extend across the length of the top tread where it meets the porch. I'm not an expert with this stuff at all, but my concern is whether rainfall that falls into that crack will compromise the structural integrity of the steps? I greatly appreciate any feedback and opinions that you could kindly share with me. This way, when I approach the contractor I'll be more knowledgeable about what exactly is occurring and what could potentially occur if the problem is not fixed - just in case he tries to downplay it. Thank you folks!
bobby

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Comments (10)

sombreuil_mongrel
9 years ago
This is a joint for sealant, not grout/mortar.
It is a continual source of movement.
Casey
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
9 years ago
Mortar never "connects" anything; it isn't glue. It is a bed upon which other things are set. Grout acts the same.

You need a flexible sealant such as polyurethane or silicone caulk in this application and because it's a change in plane.
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watergal, If you are more comfortable with concrete...then go for it. Just get what sounds like a dangerous situation corrected, please. The step(s) will have to be built to code. The construction company will work measurements out that are best suited for the site. You do not need to micromanage that part of the job. If you want two steps, tell them. Yes, it's okay to have only one railing. Code usually does not require a railing for just one step. But common sense rules here. The following suggestion is going to fall on deaf ears. But I will suggest the idea anyway. Being an oldster myself I believe that we all want to remain in our homes as long as we can. This means spending money and adding certain safety features such as grab bars, etc. You plan to install a 10' walk which ices heavily in the winter. It would be possible to install electric coils under that new sidewalk which could be turned on for an hour to defrost the walk as needed. Think about it.
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I definitely agree with Laag on this one; if the contractor screwed it up the first time, it is highly unlikely he will do any better the second or third time. Unfortunately you have learned a lesson here, and it pays to get good references and check them. Had you also been shown examples of his past work? In general it is important to be consistent with riser and tread measurements, but these can vary between sets of steps if separated by a landing, and the tread widths can vary if the walk is curving or zig zags up a hillside rather than a straight run. It would have been better to have been more precise with your criticism of his first effort, by spelling out that all riser and tread measurements were to be redone to a consistent measurement, and to have indicated all of the steps which didn't meet this criteria and were to be replaced. If it makes you feel any better, I am also dealing with a landscape project in a garden I am landscaping, where the homeowner selected his own contractor to deal the steps/masonary work, and it was shoddy work from day one. I kept telling the homeowner he should have the guy stop work and fix it, but he bought into the guy's spiel that it would be okay when completed. Bottom line, it all got ripped out and is being replaced by another new contractor. My feeling is that this was all preventable if the homeowner had been willing to have it designed in plan with proper levels and measurements, rather than winging it. I should have insisted he let me do so, but for multiple reasons it didn't happen this way. My crew did also need to redo all the imperfect subsurface drain lines and gravel backfill behind newly built wood retaining walls on this same job site, as they didn't connect to the existing outfall drain lines, nor were they located deep enough at the base of the walls. I was shocked at how incompetent the original contractor was, and the client faced paying several thousand more dollars just on drainage and backfill work to get it right. So it definitely pays to check references, and never hire a contractor based on the lowest bid, or at the very least, know something about proper construction methods and be around to inspect the work as it occurs.
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OK, I finally did the corner this AM - waiting to do in front of the beds when we put walkway in. We're planning on digging down (to correct drainage - it's low in front of the steps), laying down filter fabric, then sand, then setting the huge stepping stones piled around, then filling between stones with the pea gravel that's in the driveway. Just filled a drainage ditch going down the edge of the driveway with 3/4" stone, after I stacked the stones for the wall this AM I raked the peastone over the ditch up to the stone wall to blend in the driveway. Stairs (I tried to make the edge near the driveway step down like I did here, but this may change depending on whether we dig out to put the stone 7 " below the first step, or bring it right up to the tread so I don't have to try to make a stone riser. The top step will have a white vinyl riser like the kickboard under the door, and we're going to face the deck support with white vinyl too and then I can fill in the last course of stone under the porch). Think this will keep people from stepping into the flowerbed to get up on the end of the porch? I also planted an azalea as close as I could to the corner, given the buried pipe from the downspout going in front of the porch, and the small hole we connected to the ditch (and filled with stone, I just mulched on top) where the gutter overflows every time we have a cloudburst. I hope it doesn't drown. I also hope it gets a lot bigger - this was a 99 cent salvage plant from the grocery store. Azaleas have shallow roots so I don't know how tall it will get, but I can't plant a tree there b/c of the pipe.
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The bricks can be acid washed to clean up the brick and repointing is not that difficult. Matching the color of the Mortar is the hardest part. Sounds like he used premixed Mortar to point. Years ago I had a quote of $4000 to repair cracks and I decided to do it myself. The key to matching was to use the same sand, mortar and mixture. Wetting the present mortar shows the color required of the new wet mortar and after a lot of tries got the color. The longer the motor stays on the brick the harder it will be to remove it.
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geoffrey_b
9 years ago
The installer did not follow the TCNA (tile council of North America) guidelines. Any time you have a change in plane - the joint should be caulked.

Have him come back, remove the grout from the joint and install a 100% silicone caulk.
sombreuil_mongrel
9 years ago
Silicone is not recommended for cement because it gives off acetic acid as it cures and that will not bond.
Use a specific sealer for masonry expansion joints.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sealant for Masonry
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
9 years ago
Caulk must meet the ASTM C 920 standard in this application. GE Silicone ll and DAP silicone meet this standard as does Loctite PL S10 polyurethane:

Here is a link that might be useful: 920

This post was edited by Trebruchet on Wed, Nov 26, 14 at 21:34
bobby1973
Original Author
9 years ago
Perfect! Thank you kindly to everyone for your input. I'm going to purchase the LOCTITE Concrete Crack Sealant. That seems to be the way to go. I sent the photo to the hardscaping contractor that did the work. He mentioned that I do the same thing, and that it will not compromise the structural integrity of the steps.

bobby~
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
9 years ago
bobby:

If you are an inexperienced caulker, I'd highly recommend you mask the area thoroughly. Polyurethane caulk is some of the stickiest, gooiest, stuff on the planet; you only want it where you want it. Have some acetone handy, you're going to need it.
energy_rater_la
9 years ago
why isn't contractor doing the work?
User
9 years ago
Mortar adheres porous masonry materials together; grout fills a joint/space.

The tile joints can be filled with frost proof grout if the tile is resting on the same stable support. Where the tile meets the house that is not the case. Its like the joint between your tub and a tiled wall; it must be filled with a sealant that adheres well to both sides of the joint and can stretch as the subsurfaces move.

For a long lasting joint it is good to first install a closed cell foam joint backer rod so the sealant will take on an hourglass shape (thin at the middle). Silicone sealants should not be used on horizontal surfaces where water will stand.

The best solution for exterior steps is to avoid grouted joints because they will eventually fail and can cause injury. A better material would be full width stone treads set in mortar with no joints or sealants.
bobby1973
Original Author
9 years ago
Trebruchet: good lookin' on the 'acetone' tip!

Mortar Cracking Connecting Tread to Porch

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Mortar Cracking Connecting Tread to Porch

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