Before you risk relations and hurt feelings with your FIL, I would rethink taking it down. I think if you find the right plant (not roses, but maybe a clematis or honeysuckle) you could make it functional and still use the gate. Once covered with a plant, it will look fine, especially if you trail the vine along the fence top, too.
{{!gwi}}

You could also think about some kind of "decor" to hang on the crosspiece, something welcoming you into the garden behind the gate. Maybe a sun, or a sign, or some tile plaques (3 across). When the vines grow around it, it could look wonderful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden tiles

"No charm.....and half baked?" Ouch!

I like both the fence and arbor, but not the natural color it is now. It looks brand new which makes it stick out, but not in a good way.

I would definitely stain or paint the fence, even if it takes a lot of upkeep.

Is your area good at growing roses? If so, I think it would be charming with vining roses. Of course you'd have to take care of the pruning so the gate will be functional. Imagine how gorgeous roses would be climbing a white fence!

Would "utilitarian" and "not well thought out" sound better?

From my reading of the op it sounded like the poster didn't like the fence. It does add some value-- although nothing ever adds as much as we homeowners think it should---but I def think it detracts from the charm.

I don't mind the arbor or it even being built like it sits behind. What looks off to me is that the gate blends too well into the fence so it looks like there just is an arbor slightly offset from the fence.

I think for it to look right it needs to be clear there is a gate there and also have it align over the top of the gate - ie not behind it. Maybe add Posts on the front too and extend the cross bars to be a little deeper.

Olychick, you are making some good points! Newhomeowner2011, is it possible that gate could just be a decoration and another entrance used to the back of the house? Olychick's pic gives food for thought. It WILL look so different once the plants take off, and that shouldn't take too long, really (though I now you want them flourishing yesterday!)

Oly, they could post a cute rendition of the sign "Do not enter" on that gate (if a cute version of that can be found) or "Beware of Cat." That is, if they have a cat! (If not, they should get one!)

Neither sounds better, Kswl. The fence is already built and I'm sure her FIL worked hard on it. Why not offer a kinder suggestion on how to make it blend with the house, or stand out in a good way? Hence the paint and roses.

The OP said she thought the fence was "amazing." She's just unsure of the trellis which could look lovely with flowering vines.

I think Lyfia makes a good point, the gate blends in with the fence and can be spruced up a bit with hardware.

"Does this add value or not to the house?"

I don't think so... right now.
With some landscaping, yes!

Hey, I like Olychick's idea. Of course you could train a vine or two (one from each side) rooted a few feet to the outside of the trellis, and the draping would soften the view of the trellis which looks a bit stark now with nothing on it. Then then you could still use the gate. In fact I have a climbing rose a foot from the side of my gate, and by keeping it trimmed it arches high over the gate but doesn't interfere with the gate or the opening.

I think I was influenced by your question, which drew focus to the trellis, and by its emptiness. So I'm changing my reply! I say plant a couple of vines now (maybe a red climbing rose on one side and something faster growing on the other) and wait to see how it looks in a couple of years when the plants have come into their own.

I really think that Woodsy1 has tapped into the root of the problem: the gate looks like it is just part of the fence, so with the gate closed, the reason for the trellis being there is not clear at all. The trellis itself is not the problem.

You could test this theory by taking a photo with the gate open.

Looking at the construction from the inside, it seems as if it might be possible to put the top hinge on the lower cross bar and then drop the top of the gate, or alter it with a curve. But otherwise, maybe there is some other way of differentiating the gate from the fence... with a metal wall hanging the whole width of the gate to obscure.alter the consistent line of the top, or by painting just the gate and not the fence... would be nice if there is a decor rather than construction solution.

Karin L

Here is a link that might be useful: LD thread

It is possible, i think, to use white solid stain instead of paint. The upkeep is far less, I hear. Does someone here know more about this, or night you want to post on the paint forum?

Sorry... Lyfia too.

Karin L

They did a great job on the fence. 'Looks professional to me. I don't think the arbor looks right there, but I do think you need something to define the gate. I like the look of this, plus you can see out without unlocking the gate. Or maybe you could do a decorative cut out across the front at eye level.I agree with Stinkygardener about not planting climbing roses if you plan to paint or stain. 'Wicked thorns on some of them.

Here is a link that might be useful: [door in fence[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/alcorn-project-traditional-deck-toronto-phvw-vp~639551)

White stain would be far less upkeep, Bronwynsmom. That's a possibility. You don't think the natural grayed effect would be pretty too? I wasn't fond of the orignal wood tone of my fence but as it aged the gray looked nice with my 1920 taupe brick house (or so I imagined.) I think it could look nice with this white house too.

Do you agree that the arbor+gate combo could work once the plants were established? The gate would then become decor of course, not functional (as seen in Olychick's pic.)

I think the pergola arbor looks good - or will with vines climbing on it. i was just looking to buy one similar for our own wood fence!

Also I believe a wood fence adds a lot of value and appeal to a property - every buyer with kids and/or dogs wants a nice solid fence.

Yes - my parents have a white picket fence that they stain white. It looks like paint, but does not peel.

Stinky-gardener, if the vines were kept trimmed (laterally, keeping the center part clear) the gate could still be functional, right? The trellis is high enough that it wouldn't necessarily interfere.

With this house, I would like the white more, since it is a smallish defined volume attached to the house, and is relatively tall. So I would like it more if it was the same color as the house. I think it needs the refinement of a white finish.

And I'm afraid I don't like the arbor at all. It's wonderfully well built, but proportionately and functionally it has problems that neither vines nor medallions can fix. And its design is working against the style of this simple, early modern house, which has a simple elegance all its own,

In andy case, an arbor at entry should be part of the structure and design of the fence and gate. I think it has to come down, and another way of emphasizing the gate found.

With this fence and this house, I would consider cutting an 18" round "window" in the upper part of the gate, and filling it with a 4" square lattice pattern made of 1/2" members, placed in square rather than diagonally. It is simple and modern, and solves the unwelcoming solidity of the fence. (My dimensions are guesses, but meant to communicate the proportions I mean.)

Ah, wait - just looked at the view of the back of the gate. My idea cuts through the structure of the gate.

So now I say, an arched half circle above the structural rail at the top, with rays, like the top of a Palladian window.

Well, Gail's parents' picket fence is stained & beautiful, so white stain is an option!

Laisydaisy, I hear what you're saying, and Oly earlier suggested the gate could work around the vines too. A hardy climber like Confederate Jasmine wouldn't mind the traffic, and some clematis as well. A rose might be difficult to really keep pruned out of the way. However, there are thornless varieties that wouldn't be as troublesome.

But the point is moot, as Bronwynsmom is nixing the idea! I trust her vision totally. If she thinks it's worth the trouble to change the whole thing, I believe that's the way to go!

I don't think the arbor is too bad. I would also let the fence weather to the natural grey. To minimize the front of the fence I would add a metal trellis to each side of the gate entrance. The vines could reach the arbor in no time depending on the planting. I think it would frame out the gate nicely.

I added a pic as an idea.

I like the arbor since it adds a feature to designate where the gate is since, as others have mentioned, the gate blends in with the fence. That said, I think the scale of the arbor is off. It's too tall for its width and the cross beam is too thick.

It would be very easy to fix this. Remove the top of the arbor and trim off the bottom of the cross beam. Look at your inspiration photos. See how it's not such a big board? Reattach the trimmed beam to a pleasing height and then cut off the top of the post. You could also cut in a more delicate curve on the end of the support beam a la your inspiration photos instead of the simple angle cut that's there now.

We are building a wooden fence as well and we have arbors over the gates as well to tie in with our pergola. I know it's difficult to get it right the first time! Nothing looks the same in real life as it does on paper.

Until I skimmed over the replies, I didn't realize there was a gate! I understand why you installed the fence to line up with the neighbors. Maybe 'notch' in the gate 2 or 3 feet towards the backyard to define it and create an entry and/or get a gate made of a different material (i.e. wrought iron, etc.)

Wow; I didn't realize I'd get quite the response! I'm going to have to read thru these again when I'm not as tired and look up some things but wanted to throw out a few things and include some requested pics -

Pic with opened gate -

We have a fence/gate on the opposite side (back) of the house leading from driveway to backyard so this gate isn't needed to be functional. We actually debated whether or not to add a gate at all right here but ultimately decided it was nice to have 2 ways out. The guys were proud of themselves for making the gate seamless which I think would have been nice had it not been or my idea of having a trellis!

Pic of stairs looking down - now you see why we have the planters there? Tripping hazard would be worse (IMO) if we didn't have them as the spots these planters are hiding are crumbling! We probably aren't going to be able to fix these until the spring so they will have to likely undergo another winter beating before we replace. Do you agree these planters are better than nothing now? :-)

Spoke with husband tonight and he was not pleased with my suggestion that we might need to cut the trellis off - plus, how to break news to FIL?!?

Also, I know a few people have suggested more posts or putting in larger posts - that isn't feasible at this point - after spending every waking moment (6:30am to 11pm) for an entire week on this project, I think the decision is to either make simple changes/additions or cut it off altogether.

What to do... what to do...

Now that I see it with the gate open, I like it even more! It's different, clever, proportional, beautifully made. I hope you plant a gorgeous clematis and leave it there.

Is it really worth hurting your hub and fil over? If you ask them to remove it, they may refuse to do anything else, and who could blame them? They do beauutiful work. I know you will grow to love it in short order, if you give it a chance.

Yes, I think it does look great with the gate open! Could you just leave the gate open, lol?

Personalties are so different, who knows how your fil would respond to a request for change, but seeing the area this way sheds new light on it!

Just work with it! (That's my very unprofessional opinion!)
Btw, Newhome, what do YOU think about it?

Your house is very pretty. I enjoyed seeing more pics of it.

Embrace the trellis, there's so much you can do with it!

Honestly, the only thing that sticks out to me is the fence isn't painted which makes it look unfinished.

I do think some black hardware on the gate would look great.

Your DH and FIL did a fantastic job, IMO.

I also was noticing your house numbers-they're so cute!

2919 means your house in numerology is a "3" house. 2+9+1+9=21. 2+1=3.

Here is a numerology profile of a 3 house:

A 3 dwelling is a happy dwelling. Not that unhappiness never occurs, but rather, the inhabitants are basically full of good cheer and accommodating to the many family members and visitors who happen by. Positive attitude proliferates in this house and the creative urge is palpable. Artists, poets, writers, actors and dreamers flock to 3 and little children are quite happy here too.

A 3 house is decorated to reflect the creativity of the inhabitants and this can range from wildly eclectic to *House and Garden* chic. The important thing is the "look" of it. There will be a desire to make this house stand out as unique or glamorous amidst the others on the block.

Good for entertainers, authors (or letter writers), sociable people, artists, politicians, and anyone involved in communications of any type, including long hours on the telephone.

Good luck colors for this home are: Yellow-Orange, Lemon, Lime and other tangy citrus colors. #3 homes are trendy and can range from elegant to funky to 'picket fence' charming. Martha Stewart loves this house.

It looks so much better with the gate open! I mean amazingly so.

Can you talk DH and FIL into replacing the gate with one that is less solid and more welcoming? Giving passersby a teaser as they walk past is a wonderful way to make your home look more intriguing. Then it makes the arbor look so much more intentional too.

You can bef up the trellis supports' appearance from the outside of the fence by sistering a like piece of wood next to each existing support. Nothing could be easier, and they indoubtedly have enough material left over to do this.

OH!!!!

Now the whole thing makes sense. You absolutely need some kind of feature which defines the gate/door when it is closed.

If you can't change out the door style, perhaps you can put an insert in the door. Like this:

If you google "gate inserts" you will see a lot of examples.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gate inserts

It does look a lot better with the gate open. Not that it looked bad before. But I still think the proportion is off. It needs to be shorter, or the cross beam needs to be less thick, or the cross beam needs to be wider, or some combination of those. It looks top heavy right now.

I now think that it's more important to appreciate what's been done and be loving to your DH and FIL than to perfect the aesthetic.

And I think that combining Annie's, Kswl's, and Mclarke's ideas of beefing up the support posts by sistering another 4x4 on the outer side, and lightening the gate with some sort of opening, will solve the problem in the happiest way.

And that's the point, after all.

White stain, a pair of great vines planted outside, so that the whole outer gate structure is defined by the greenery, and I think the proportional problem is solved.

Opening the gate is very revealing. I agree with Annie's suggestion for a more decorative or smaller gate.

Have been following this thread and wanted to chime in on the plantings. Lovely as clematis is most are not green year round. You do need a rich lush green vine that will have a presence all year. Even in snow it will be covered and have a lovely shape. The clematis won't .I have asiatic and confederate jasmine. Find one that is good for your area. They are rapid growers and will give the visual cohesiveness that the beautiful piece of art your FIL created needs. Good Luck ! c

The more I look at it, the more I like it. I'd put a thick black handle on it and sit back and enjoy your lovely home.

All you need is a bit of wrought iron hanging on the door, to draw the eye and define the door. Right now, when the door is closed, it disappears. The door becomes part of the fence, which confuses the eye.

Just buy one of these things and hang it on the outside of the door. Just something so that a visitor can say, "Oh! THAT's the way in!"

I also wanted to add that clematis is known for the "crawl,walk.run" way of growing so it takes at least 3 years for most of it to make a presence. I agree with the large black handle and the hanging on the gate...such a charming garden you are going to have and kudos to your FIL for his craftsmanship. c

Ahhh, so much better when the gate is open. Perhaps a white wrought iron gate to echo your porch railings?

The tall privacy fence with poorly defined entrance doesn't read as welcoming or friendly. The awkward trellis above the gate doesn't help to change that feel. Especially when contrasted with the neighbor's much more charming and open fence structure. It comes off not as trying to create privacy, but as trying to put people at an arms' distance. It will need a lot of landscaping to counteract that, as well as tweaking of the structure itself. I would have suggested doing an two sided every other board shadowbox type privacy fence rather than a solid wood wall. Maybe even something with a bit of detail to the boards to add interest, like this one below. It doesn't read as "wood wall" that way.

It would still be easy at this point to take a hole saw or jigsaw and cut some circular or diamond patterns into the solid fence boards to give it a bit more decorative look that would let a bit more light and air transmit through. That would give it a bit less of a wall feeling and more of a friendly fence feeling.

This is over the top, but you can get the general idea of how that takes it and makes it more decorative and friendly.

Structurally, without another set of posts to create an actual arbor, the pergola section will become top heavy and the single posts may not be able to hold the weight of a wet climbing plant after a rain. It physically needs the additional posts if it's to remain upright and functional long term. Only trellises that are mounted against another structure for support, like against a house, are OK with just two support posts.

Visually, the additional posts need to be to the exterior of the fence so that it appears to be an actual welcoming destination for the path to go through rather than a "guess where's the gate, oh is that a trellis, it must be there". I'd also make the gate shorter, to create a bit of a "peekaboo view" into the yard, similar to how a moon gate does, but square.

See how the opening in the gate frames the view? That's what lowering the actual gate will do. It will create a vista and move the eye through the gate, rather than having it be blocked by the tall fence. That creates a much more welcoming look, especially if you soften the height of the fence by adding shrubbery to the exterior to minimize that height.

i think the fence looks fantastic....great workmanship...

looking at your roof (and your neighbors roof) with your white stucco, a black paint or stain would look extremely sharp....i would consider changing out the gate with black wrought iron to soften the entry, and of course, if possible plant a vine that will encompass the trellis cross beam which looks somewhat austere

Here is a link that might be useful: {{!gwi}}

Does your fence add value? Absolutely. Probably not as much as the fence cost, as that type is expensive, but it is something buyers will notice and prefer it over something cheaper like chain link. It looks like it is built well and should last a very long time. I like natural color fences, but a white stain would look nice too.

It doesn't detract from your home, but it doesn't look quite right either. As others have said, the arbor is top heavy. In the photo Annie posted, the posts are 4x4 like yours and the lintel (or top cross piece) is a 2x8 (double the width) where yours is a 2x12 (triple the width). And the posts are set behind the fence rather than in line with it.

Just a suggestion, but I think the easiest fix (and husbands doing the work wouldn't call it easy) would be to double your 4x4's, like this. The posts can be set into the ground, or just attached to the existing posts since they won't show from the front.
{{!gwi}}

I like the window inset idea, but it would mean rebuilding most of the fence since the slats support the top rails. You could build your own window out of the same material as the rails, and simply cut out the back slats, or every other slat in the upper part of the gate. I would also extend the bottom rail, just because it looks better. Something like this:
{{!gwi}}

Also, it looks like the top is only attached to the posts by nails. I'd suggest bolting the lintels to the posts. If the nails worked loose, that could crash down on someone opening or closing the gate, and two 2x12s are heavy.
{{!gwi}}

Not sure where you're located, but the fencing would not add value where we're located. I understand that you want privacy, but it seems that if you live in a community setting, putting up a 6 ft, privacy fence is a statement of just that, I want my privacy.

Where we live there are rarely fences. Those who do have them, must have them to enclose inground pools. There are some very nice ornamental black iron fences I've seen. Our pool was installed so many years ago, these ornamental pool fences weren't available so we have chain link with green coating. During most months of the year you can't really see it since it blends into the greenery of our wooded lot. The other fences are either livestock or barn fences, or like ours, split rail with welded wire in the back yard in order to keep the pets in.

I can't tell from your picture, but does this tall fence completely surround your yard? Not sure what sense it makes for your next door neighbor to have a lower decorative fence right up against your privacy fence?

As you can tell, I am not a lover of fences. I wouldn't stain the fence, just let it age. Over time as others have posted it may gain some character from weathering and the sun.

Not sure where you're located, but the fencing would not add value where we're located. I understand that you want privacy, but it seems that if you live in a community setting, putting up a 6 ft, privacy fence is a statement of just that, I want my privacy.

Where we live there are rarely fences. Those who do have them, must have them to enclose inground pools. There are some very nice ornamental black iron fences I've seen. Our pool was installed so many years ago, these ornamental pool fences weren't available so we have chain link with green coating. During most months of the year you can't really see it since it blends into the greenery of our wooded lot. The other fences are either livestock or barn fences, or like ours, split rail with welded wire in the back yard in order to keep the pets in.

I can't tell from your picture, but does this tall fence completely surround your yard? Not sure what sense it makes for your next door neighbor to have a lower decorative fence right up against your privacy fence?

As you can tell, I am not a lover of fences. I wouldn't stain the fence, just let it age. Over time as others have posted it may gain some character from weathering and the sun.

ps...forgot to add, yes i think it really adds to the value of your house....

especially because you created it with 'sweat equity' and were only out the cost of the materials...

considering the close proximity to the neighbors, the privacy fence gives you a wonderful spot, once landscaped and furnished, to relax outdoors...check out sites like houzz and search on 'side yards' for lots of lovely examples where the homeowner put this oft overlooked space to very good use!

We stained two adirondack chairs with white stain years ago. All i ever had to do was scrub them once in a great while. That was mainly because they sat in a damp area and would get a little mossy.

We also stained our porch swing white. The white stain is thicker and more paint-like than, say, a walnut stain, and you don't have to do a perfect paint job. It's quicker and much less painstaking than paint.

I love your fence and trellis. I'd stain them white.

I wasn't clear on how much of the arbor is diy.

If it is all diy, then I agree with doubling up the posts and narrowing the cross beam as part of the problem is proportion.

I love the fence and would keep it just like it is. I would however stain it with a semi transparent oil base stain, to protect it. I dont like when fences turn gray. To me, it the graying looks like someone hasnt done maintenance. I have one on the back of my house that we use for a dog run, and mine is stained cedar. We do not have the trellis on ours, but, I wish we had put something there, to define where the entrance was from the outside. To do it now, would require two posts to be removed, and longer ones put in. That fence would be a selling feature to me.

Thinking more about the fence if you decide to do any drastic changes, can you show us the full view of the house with both side yards and houses next door?

We're only commenting on a tiny area without seeing what the opposite side of the yard looks like.

Is there a fence there? If so, is it wider than what you have now?

I didn't read through all the posts so I don't know if this has been said. The posts are small and behind the gate. Maybe if he chunked them up a bit by adding posts to the front of the gate it would look better.

If the rest of the neighborhood has picket fences and you installed the lone privacy fence, then no, you didn't add value to the house. You took away value from the house, even if you added utility to your stay in the home. If the rest of the neighborhood is a mix of fence types, then a privacy fence doesn't look out of place, but it didn't add very much if any actual "value" to the house. If you had added an aluminum no maintenance type of decorative privacy fence, that's value added.

As it is, it needs the pergola gussied up a bit to look more intentional and substantial and it needs the gate tweaked a bit too. I think using a solid color stain in a black or white will give it a bit less of the "wall" look, but that may be exacerbated by being next to the more open looking picket fence of the neighbors.

I do think that a picket type fence would have had a lot more charm, even if it didn't provide you with the privacy that you were looking for.