Hi Carla and Redsox! Gosh, I haven't been back here in a bit. Just lurking today and saw your posts. I will be spending a week or so checking out a good portion of the South in early March. Eldest daughter lives in Florida, so my 2 other daughters & I will be going for a quick visit, and spending the rest of the time doing a very preliminary look-see in a couple of states. We took our internal and informal vote. That's three whole votes. The results, in order of preference for wanting to see: 1. NC and TN tied. 2. SC and GA tied. 3. If we had more time, we'd love to go through Mississippi, Alabama, etc. all the way to Texas, but we are not blessed with that many days off. :-) Of course, one week isn't enough time to do justice to any place, but it's a start, to kind of get a feel for things. Since we'll be driving mostly down the East Coast, we'll only see the tourist-y places in most states, so we have to narrow down the scope of places where we want to spend a day or two, and the easiest places to do that AND be able to spend a couple of days with oldest daughter. In the interests of time, I think we'll have to scope out the east coastal states. Everyone has decided that NC is a place we really want to look at, and we will spend a couple of days there. Folks from NC -- feel free to recommend favorite spots that would help get to look at local (not tourist) culture. If we have time, we'll swing over to parts of TN, but may have to save that for a late summer/early fall trip. I could get more time off, buy my daughters have been in their jobs for less than three years, so they don't get a lot of vacation time. We'll just have to plan another trip later in the year. Go ahead, twist my arm! I'd also enjoy checking out KY and WV, but they will have to be relegated to the next trip. I guess a Bosox fan in KY would feel a bit displaced. :-) But the Northeast "culture" has been oppressively brutal, although I will always love the "Yankee"/New England geography and flora and fauna. The small towns, especially. Truly lovely.

I have really enjoyed this tread, have never laughed so much. Reminds me of that old acres of diamonds story where a landowner sells his farm to finance his global search for diamonds and ends up broke and homeless while the person who bought his farm discovers that it is awash with millions of dollars of crude oil or something of that effect. The moral of the story may be that many of us are sitting on acres of diamonds so to speak but are so motivated for a geographical change or the pursuit of some elusive but unattainable dream that we do not recognize the treasures that are beneath our very feet or underneath our very nose. reminds me also of the french movie Jean De Florrante, (ca'nt remember exactly how to spell it,) where a man inherits a farm in the countryside of France and kills himself trying to make a living off of it while being sabotaged by his father who is trying to steal the farm away from his son in order to give it to his mentally retarded nephew, because neither father nor son know who each other are until after the death of the son at which time the father discovers that he has killed his true son and has thus ruined his acres of diamonds so to speak. The poster sounds like that they could be a front man for a group of Amish people who quietly buy up thousands of acres of prime farmland that is poised to increase even further in value in the near future, but I doubt it, sounds more like someone from Japan or somewhere representing a bunch of businessmen or something, who knows, but very funny tread. thanks, Barry

I am wondering if the original poster moved up here or no? I've lived in Canton and Potsdam. If you can't work for the colleges, it will be rough to get a decent job. Negative 40 in the winter at times but not cooler in the summer unless you get into higher elevation in the 'Dacks. Very inexpensive housing, good apartments are hard to find since all the college kids get them. Flat flat flat, unless you go up to Russell and all the little tiny towns at the foot of the mountains where it starts getting hillier. The Adirondacks have a nice feel to them but yes, there are very poor "North Country" people there. I don't know how "colonial" or "New Englandy" the towns are up there. Ogdensburg, Watertown and Massena are larger cities that have more things going on. I agree with previous posters that Corning/Painted Post is a nice area with culture and Big Flats has the mall and lots of shopping. There are smaller towns in between all the larger cities, everything is rural. Bath, Hammondsport, Penn Yan are great areas too. Hammondsport was awarded Coolest Small Town. The Finger Lakes Area is one of the most beautiful areas; the lakes, wineries, small town feel are wonderful. Houses on the lakes are very pricey but out in the country they are very reasonable. They HAVE to be because there are barely any jobs or opportunities here. Most people who own the lake houses have these as summer homes and travel from the big cities. Buffalo, Rochester, Ithaca, Syracuse are larger and have more things available and you don't have to drive far to get back to the country with hills and farms. Actually between Buffalo and Rochester is a nice stretch of farms, farmer's markets, nice countryside. I grew up near Jamestown which is all the way west. Nice town but poor, again not many good jobs but there is a mall there, stores. Chatauqua Lake is also there and it's beautiful, as well as Chatauqua Institution which is well known for its summer cultural events. It's less than an hour to Erie, PA: lots of shopping, jobs and Lake Erie with beaches. A little east outside Jamestown are the Allegany Mountains which are neat. Anytime you are in rural areas, you will have hunting. Some people are so poor that they have to hunt to have food on the table. I hate hunting but it's something you just have to deal with here. Steuben County is extremely poor and there are trailers around, especially if you go way out into the countryside, but there are lots of nice houses too. Teens are always around, carrying on, but it's not a problem. Angelica is a sweet little town but you will have to drive a ways to get to a big store. Sometimes you just have to drive, visit and see how it makes you feel. You could always rent a house and then really travel all over to find the perfect spot. I haven't been to all of the towns that have been mentioned, but I never have felt the "New England" feeling in any of them. I have been to Lake Champlain but only once and just passing through so maybe it has more of that feeling.

Update on my advice above to actually visit the country(ies) you are thinking of moving to, and our friends' advice that establishing foreign bank accounts BEFORE moving was something they should have done to avoid six months' worth of delays: The IRS is cracking down hard on ALL foreign investments, whether real estate, investment accounts, checking/savings. The penalties are huge, and although you can try to wrangle them down, it is a fact that taxpayers with smaller balance accounts are proportionately paying LARGER penalty fees than multi-millionaires who are deliberately hiding assets. The WSJournal had an article on this issue June 2014, but as it's subscriber only, I'll just post some excerpts: Expatriate Americans Break Up With Uncle Sam to Escape Tax Rules Record Numbers Living Abroad Renounce U.S. Citizenship over IRS Reporting Requirements WSJournal June 2014 U.S. offices abroad reported that 1,001 U.S. citizens and green-card holders had renounced their allegiance in the first three months of the year, according to Andrew Mitchel, a lawyer in Centerbrook, Conn., who analyzes Treasury Department data. That figure puts 2014 on track to top last year's total of 2,999 renunciations, he said, which was the most since the government began disclosing the data. Helping boost the exodus, experts say, is a five-year-old U.S. campaign to hunt for undeclared accounts held by Americans abroad….The tax dragnet has also swept up many middle-income Americans living abroad, prompting some to give up their U.S. citizenship. While people who renounce are NOT freed of taxes due for past years, they don't want to risk sizable taxes and penalties for them and their children in the years ahead, experts say. Nearly 8,000 taxpayers have renounced U.S. citizenship in the past five years, Mr. Mitchel found, compared with fewer than 5,000 in the preceding decade. ….U.S. officials launched their campaign after Swiss banking giant UBS AG admitted in 2009 that it helped wealthy American taxpayers hide money overseas. To avoid criminal charges, the bank paid $780 million to the U.S. and turned over information on more than 4,400 accounts, ending decades of Swiss bank secrecy. In May, Credit Suisse Group pleaded guilty to similar charges and agreed to pay $2.6 billion. Dozens of other Swiss banks are currently negotiating penalties with the U.S. Department of Justice, officials said. Following the UBS revelations, U.S. officials announced they would begin vigorously enforcing both new and long-dormant tax rules. Unlike other developed nations, the U.S. government taxes citizens on income they earn anywhere in the world. … The most common mistakes usually involved Americans failing to submit a form called the Foreign Bank Account Report, or Fbar. Since 1970, U.S. taxpayers have been required to file if they held one or more foreign accounts totaling more than $10,000 over the course of a year. Until the enforcement push, many Americans never filed an Fbar. The law is more than 40 years old, but "no one ever heard of it" before the crackdown, said Edward Kleinbard, a former chief of staff on Congress' Joint Committee on Taxation, and an expert in international tax law at the University of Southern California. Fbar penalties are as steep as 50% of the highest value of the account for each year no report was filed. The IRS fined one taxpayer for Fbar violations in four separate years, and a settlement reached this month in the case yielded $1.7 million in penalties, which was more than the account held at the time. …The typical taxpayer with less than $45,000 in undeclared accounts paid nearly six times the back taxes owed, while the typical taxpayer with more than $7 million in such accounts paid closer to three times their back taxes, Nina Olson, the National Taxpayer Advocate, an IRS ombudsman, found. … Scrutiny of Americans abroad will intensify, however, under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or Fatca, which Congress passed in 2010. The law's main provisions, which take effect in July, will require foreign financial institutions to report income of their U.S. customers to the IRS, much as U.S. banks and brokers file 1099 forms. Middle-class Americans "face overwhelming problems when they try to engage in standard financial practices, such as having a small business, saving for retirement, investing, buying life insurance, and making wills and trusts," because of the laws governing assets abroad, said David Kuenzi, a financial planner with Thun Financial Advisors in Madison, Wis., who works with expatriates. The U.S. tax code, for example, doesn't recognize Australia's version of an individual retirement account, Mr. Kuenzi said. American taxpayers with these accounts must file at least two forms a year declaring the account a "foreign trust," and paying taxes on annual appreciation. The penalty for failing to file can be as much as 35% of both contributions and withdrawals each year, plus 5% of the assets, said Mr. Hodgen, the Pasadena tax lawyer. *********** Hope this info is of use to others.