The way you've described how you feel about your home, that's how I feel about ours. I "settled" for the house b/c I felt a lot of pressure to either pick a place or not own a home (we could have rented though, so you were under even more pressure than us), and our offers on other homes I liked more had all been rejected.

As a result, we've done a lot of updating/remodeling over the 13 years we've lived in our home, but haven't seen even the dramatic increase in value that your home has seen...but at least we bought it before prices skyrocketed (and at least we didn't try to sell it after the prices took a major dive, that would have been a loss)!

I think that it's NOT worth it, from an investment perspective, to over-improve. It's nice to make your home more livable while you are living there -- which it sounds like you've done. I don't understand that you say your home is in the perfect location, and then you say you don't like the neighborhood. That reads sort of contradictory.

It seems to me that it would be better to just keep things maintained over the next few years. In the meantime, find a good realtor who knows what you want to move to and will help you get that place as soon as it's available...even if it means waiting and watching for a few years rather than putting a lot of pressure to move *now*. I think we're approaching that spot where we're going to be ready to move when the right place is available, but otherwise I'd rather continue put up with what we've got rather than settle again.

I'm excited to read what other perspectives are on your dilemma.

Can you look at zillow and see what homes are selling for in your neighborhood? That might give you an idea of whether you are really over improving or not.

1.) In answer to the question in your title...Yes.
If your house has a great location (waterfront, short bike ride from work, subway access, whatever) or a lot of sentimental value AND you don't plan on moving for a long time. (Say, 15 years?) "Over-improving" is only a problem when you go to sell...if you get a good 20 years use out of improvements, you've got your money's worth. Really, thinking you will recoup the costs of home improvements is a bit naive...studies show most people DON'T, and who knows what will be a selling point in 20 years? Most of the money you spend on a house isn't an investment, it's consumption.

2.) With regards to your particular situation...no, don't do more improvements. Sounds like you don't like the house or the neighborhood. I don't think renovations will change that...and your long standing dislike of the house means you may move some day. If it were a cozy bungalow you loved, and you loved the neighbors, but it was just getting a bit too small, it would be a different story. Either move or pat yourself on the back over the money you are saving.

Wow! Thanks for all your thoughts. All things to consider. The deal is the location is fantastic. It's central to everything. Richmond, Washington DC, Williamsburg, Virginia Beach. It's also perfect location to any shopping restaurant you could ever want at any price (upscale shopping, many Wal-marts and everything in between). And very close to all major military bases and where we shop for food/and use the hospital. I can't ask for more (also stones throw from work). Neighborhood is meh; street is busy and I'm bored here; neighbors don't ground me here they are ok but meh. I realize now, there is no perfect place unless you are retired and have a LOT of money! House is missing master bath, walk in closet and laundry upstairs and I have three or four projects etse that would be nice. So I am SOOO confused! We're so aging now I worry about carrying debt but then I have my son living here and get my granddaughter on weekends and need another room/bathroom. I have clothes of mine right now in three rooms! I've cleaned out to half a closet in one room and two drawers in another and can probably whittle down more but geez! So I've been looking at adding on an addition or moving to upscale or building or suffering. I found the perfect house at the perfect house in the perfect neighborhood but it's not located near anything. Or I can get perfect location and yard but house sucks. Or I can stay here, design my house and suffer with my neighborhood and price myself out of the market. But then again, I'll be dead and it'll be my kids problem! LOL I just can't figure it out. I'm going mad.

Forgot to mention we need about 3000-3500 sq feet and we have 1800 now. and my diningroom is very tight. People have to push chairs all the way in and go sideways down each side! LOL Also accessible a block away from bus stops and three schools within a mile (elementary, jr high and high school and a college less than 3 miles away); fire station a block away as is my vet! So that's what I meant about location vs neighborhood. We are three streets from the Ocean; but it's about 5 miles to get there. So many things to consider! Ugh. I need to take a break. I've been looking for a solution over 2 months now.

Your first post you say you need to add a master bath, closet, laundry and patio. Plus move a door and fix a shower, but those don't change square footage. Now you are saying that you need 3,000-3,500 sf - which is almost double what you have now. So either that is going to be one huge bath/closet/laundry. Or else you need to sit down and figure out what you really want. Can you really double the size of your house for $150k?

I also think you are confusing geographic area and location. It sounds like you have a great geographic location, but a crappy location. Are people dieing to move into your neighborhood? Creating bidding wars? Or does the busy street and the run down factor turn people away? Think of it this way - people want easy highway access. But they don't want to live on the highway exit ramp.

If 2 people ''need'' 3000 square feet, then they either have way too much stuff, or the existing home is laid out so badly that they can't imagine what a well designed 1200 square foot home can do for their quality of life. Either way, putting money into the current home would be contraindicated.

I think it's hard to know how much space you 'need' if your current home feels too small.

We have six children and recently sold our 2700 square foot home and moved to a 2000 square foot home. It does not at all feel cramped as the space is well used. Before we moved I had thought we would definitely not move to anything smaller, and probably want something at least 3000 square feet. The reality is that a smaller home feels very comfortable now that we're in it.

I guess I'm just saying that just because your current home feels too small, don't assume that you need double the space. As hollysprings points out, sometimes you just need a better layout. If that's the case, adding on won't really fix the problem.

dahppv,
You have to live your life for you and your husband.
Not your children.
I wouldn't want a mortgage at all, and I'm your age.
Don't do anything more to your home, just get rid of
stuff and reorganize things, and you didn't mention your son's age.
Is it possible he will be moving out shortly?
Keep all of this in mind, putting more money into a home that you are going to have to take money against and pay every month is a big decision for someone in their mid fifities.
The bigger the home, the more your taxes will go up, the bigger the utility bill, the more to clean, another mortgage, how bad do you want another bath room?
I would be thinking about down sizing, lol, not making my life more complicated.

"I just can't figure it out. I'm going mad."

Please take my advice: Don't do **anything** while you're in that state of mind. If you haven't already, read my two posts in this forum.

My situation is a lot like yours, except the square footage issue is in reverse; my house is too big. I detest the house, I detest the neighborhood and I have nothing in common with the 'neighbors', one of whom I fervently hate. But the location? Oh, my! Ten minutes from downtown (city hall, museums, theaters, parks, libraries, etc., etc.), 10 minutes to 5 world-class hospitals, 15 minutes to 2 community colleges *and* the state university, shopping from $ to $$$$$$ and 5 minutes to access one N/S and one E/W freeways. And... I. Want. Out!!!

In my fevered state, I agreed with my OH to buy another house. The **wrong** house in the **wrong** neighborhood. I can't tell you how much that mistake cost, not just in dollars and cents, but physical and emotional distress to the max. I have not yet recovered.

Why not sit down with all the people who matter in this issue and draw up two lists of pros and cons, one for staying in your present home and one for your ideal home. Be realistic.

My house was/is like yours: a money pit. We have also spent as much or more on improvements than we paid for it and there is never an unfinished list of projects. I still want out; I'm determined to move, but I am not going overboard on improvements any more. Small stuff, like paint and refinishing the Saltillo will likely pay for themselves, but a major kitchen/bath remodel will not. Think about it.

Good point about not living for the kids; I'm starting to come to that realization .... I don't have too much stuff really. I clean everything out frequently and do not like clutter; I'm forever giving stuff away. Though I do have an extra large collection of signed books and memoribilia though; that's why one of the bedrooms is unavailable (it's my office as well). I figure in 15-20 years I'll need to sell it all off and move to a tiny condo or nursing home. House it not laid out too well and I've done all I can with it. I just wanted another bedroom for guests/my granddaughter and so my son could have his belongings back, as well as a good closet and another bathroom. I'm having two contractors over next two days to throw me a plan and ballpark figure... and I've got the relator on standby. I'll give it a rest for a bit and see if our thoughts change. Thanks for the ideas; the neighborhood isn't that bad. It's not icky; it's just boring a busy (speeders killed my cat and hit my car) street mainly. It's not like it's high crime etc; just have some small issues here and there (kids smashing pumpkins, spraypainted cars including mine and stole my gps/ray bans and chargers). I don't want to regret buying an expensive house like someone above said! So far what's kept me from the homes I did like was the distance away from everything. I think that trumps all for us. So I think what will happen is if nothing in this neighborhood that's not new and in the perfect wooded lot with a good lot and very quiet, then we'll probably think about staying here and doing a mid-size final reno or doing nothing and throwing my son out! LOL I've done the pros/cons list. It's about even. GAH. I'll read some other stuff on over-improving still before I pull the switch either way.

PS To Tomatofreak... sorry your situation happened. I think people can learn from those of us who "settled". Doing that is a financial and emotional commitment and our surroundings affect our lives on a daily basis. Instead of improving the house more, perhaps some pampering instead? Lush towels and a spa visit or mini vacation... hmm.

Will you stay there for a full ten years? If you retire in a decade or so, proximity to military basis won't matter. When your kids move out, you won't need so much space. With proximity to work removed as a factor, you will have different options.

Also, upstairs laundry rooms are a TERRIBLE idea. They take up usable living space, they create so much noise you can't do laundry at night, and I find mess tends to migrate into the laundry room.

We've already retired from the military; and about to retire in 10-15 years from civilian life. We need the military base; it's where we go grocery shopping and get our health care...
My issue with the laundry is my biggest issue in this house, Our laundry is located down two flights of steps in a zig zag pattern. There's NO room upstairs for a laundry basket/hamper. SOOO we end up with a pile of clothes in the hall daily which I kick downstairs... lol. I already broke an ankle slipping on laundry; and another time fell down and tore a ligament in my foot another. Hate this tri-level configuration. It's because I'm small. Cat gets underfoot, I can't see well (eye disease) and really need to eliminate two flights of steps! LOL Every time people come over, I have clothes down by the washer/dryer and I have to quickly stuff them in to hide them. So #1 priority is that laundry room! Tis true. We could suffer it out for a few more years I guess. See what develops. I'm starting to lean that way today because I can't figure it out.

Maybe you can find a small space to create a laundry chute for a lot less money -- and use a hamper. A vertical basket will take up less space than a pile on the floor and you aren't going to trip on it, snag a favorite garment or step on something you might wish you hadn't. You can even get one with wheels at Target. I saw it recently and was wishing I'd seen it before my son went off to college with something else. Look for smarter solutions -- people keep coming up with more and more of them.

We'd tried that solution with contractors before. Only place to put a chute is through the floor in the master closet. Then I'd have no place for my shoes (Gasp!) LOL I've discussed this with a neighbor who has the same design house. She was trying to make a chute too! The configuration of the house can't do it. Plus I think my area has heat/ac vent under there as well. geez, now I am going back to moving! Just checked the comps on my area. Seeing my relator was conservative. I think I can squeak out 20-30gs more than she's saying. If I can, then I will probably move!

Could you evaluate how you use your home to see if you could do with less sq footage in return for a better location? I have 3 adults in about 1900 sf (plus basement for storage) and it feels really quite spacious. Maybe if you walked through a house that was better laid out, you see a difference in how big a home you need? Some things people may do without - formal living room, formal dining room, walk-in closet (lining a wall with reach-ins is more efficient).

Here is a link that might be useful: Not so big houses

This is true; one with a better layout might be better for sure. I was looking for 3000-3500 sq ft thinking I need a bigger dining and another bath, but I'd consider looking at something in the 2400-3000 sq ft range I think~ if the layout and neighborhood were perfect. I have seen homes with 3600 sq ft with dinky kitchens etc. The one I like the master bath is so big I kind of think it's wasted space. Size I guess does not equate to usage quality necessarily.

Would it be feasible to build a garage with a guest room and living area? Might take some stress off the rest of your house.

Nope. I could if I were any other neighbor. The way the lot is, is I have the largest back yard on the street but the smallest side yards. There's no room to build on either side or to extend the driveway (width wise). I wish! As you guys are asking me these things, more things are going into the con list and I'm thinking leaving is gonna win!

Your frustration with your house comes through loud and clear. It's very distressing to live in a home environment you dislike. However, in my opinion "boring" is not a reason to leave a house that's paid for, in a decent location. Clutter and family issues can be worked out, if you face them directly and engage in good communication.

If you are 10-15 years from civilian retirement as you say, then I think improving the house to make it more liveable is a good solution; provided of course you are willing to saddle the debt for it. And I understand about that one, too. If so, perhaps a consultation with a good remodeling architect could open your eyes to making a house happy again.

If not, rent out the house, buy an RV and go on the road for an antidote to boredom. Not kidding.

Why do you need to go to the military base to go grocery shopping?

If you object to the three level design, that's NOT something renovations are likely to change. I see you or your husband getting arthritis and having more problems in a decade or so. The more I hear, the more I think your objections aren't things renovations will fix.

dahoov2, those who DON'T settle were the people who fell victim to the foreclosure crisis a while back. Unless you are rich, you can't get everything you want. It's about prioritizing.

Here is a link that might be useful: Home Building Gone Wrong

I don't need the base to go shopping; more for the hospital (we are insured and the hospital there is free... so that's a no-brainer! It's convenient and a quality facility. The shopping is a bonus. Save a good 30% I'd say on groceries.

Yesterday, we had a guy come and talk to us about an addition. He nixed my laundry idea (there's no room really without putting it in my bedroom). But he said I could get a chute probably... which is acceptable. I'd gain the bathroom and closet needed. The bottom part of the house would be a huge workroom which replaces any need for a garage. We never put our cars in a garage here anyway. I think I did ONE time when we first moved in and then it just became a work room/storage. It doesn't snow here so no biggie. Anyway, renovations I see will fix some issues but I see more created. For example, I'm losing natural light downstairs even more and that's the darkest part of the house already. Also, I'd be staring at a big giant addition from my deck which blocks all the nature... So what I've decided to do was get a couple designs and I'm putting them into a program called Punch designer. This will give me an idea if this will be suited to my needs at all. If not, then I'm nixing this idea. That leaves either moving and finding "the" house which probably does not exist. Or staying and suffering (and kicking my kid out)... and just building something small say screening in my deck or putting in a hot tub and doing my shower and take a trip to Europe to make life more bearable for a few years; then retiring to a condo! I'll come back in a few weeks and should have decided. Will update!

You *need* 3-5k feet?

wow. The owner of our first house raised seven children in a three bedroom house withe no closets, listed as 936 sq. ft. of living space.

"I think I can squeak out 20-30gs more than she's saying. If I can, then I will probably move!"

Your error is in thinking what you need to pay for your next house has any bearing on what someone will pay for yours.

I had a more realistic idea about the sale price of our house than Late husband did. When he asked the realtor why our house would be priced "so low," the realtor said, "I'm in the business of selling houses, not putting up signs."

Ouch. that stung. No I don't NEED that much. I would like to have my solace and dream before I die. But gee, thanks for your thoughts...

PS based on what sold in the area within the last month or so, with a couple being the EXACT same houses (same exact floor plan) with NO redeeming qualities, sold for MORE than she is telling me to list mine. So yeah, I know I can get MORE for my house. If not, I just won't sell. Then I'll add a bathroom and closet and laundry upstairs (though both contractors so far told me no should do; but they both would add a chute for me which would be ok and save money). I'm entitled to live my dream. If we worked hard our entire lives (both military vets and worked beyond that and saved), I should be able to live the dream without having to make apologies because someone here thinks I should be content with what I have. It could be considered greedy. But honestly? I've spent my entire life caring for everyone including parents and kids (last parent just died and I had her flown here near me to a nursing home so I could visit daily) and to my granddaughter who is living below poverty line to other kids who aren't even related to me, to having a grown son here whose college I scrimped and saved for and finally paid off... I just want ME now. So I will make no apologies because I want room for my granddaughter when she's here on visitations or for my gym equipment or whatever it is I feel I need the square footage for. I will no longer post.

You sound like a perfect candidate for the TV show, ''Love it or List it.'' I find listening to Hilary & David annoying, but am often impressed with the renovated house.

Here is a link that might be useful: love it or list it

Wow, this thread is getting weirdly emotional.

This sort of thing should be a financial decision. It should be about what you can afford, what you can realistically get in other nearby locations for your budget, realistically evaluating whether your needs will be the same in ten years. It should be looked at dispassionately. What one "deserves" has no bearing on it...plenty of people get more then they deserve, plenty don't get what they deserve. It's about what you can afford, and which of your desires is most important to you if you can't afford to fulfill all of them. *MY* advice was based on the fact you seem to have issues with the house no amount of remodeling is likely to fix, and you can maybe more cost-effectively achieve more of your desires if you move and compromise on location and maybe square footage. Location is usually less critical after people retire, and they usually need less square footage after they move out.

This post was edited by edlincoln on Fri, Oct 17, 14 at 19:13

" I'm entitled to live my dream. If we worked hard our entire lives (both military vets and worked beyond that and saved), I should be able to live the dream without having to make apologies because someone here thinks I should be content with what I have."

You don't have to apologize to anyone. Your money is yours to do with as you wish. You ***asked the opinions*** of the folks on the board. If you didn't want them, you needn't have asked. If you want to spend money building your dream house, you are certainly entitled to do that. People here are just telling you that it may not be a ***good investment*** and that is absolutely true: Just because you paid almost 92K and put in 250K worth of improvements over the years won't make your house worth $342,000 when (or if ) you decide to sell it. If that is of no consequence do whatever you want.

Remodeling does not show that great of a return on investment, other than what you personally get for the enjoyment. If you spent $20,000 to fix up your kitchen 10 years ago, today's people would think it stinks. It's not my money, so do what you feel is best.

Well, sometimes these threads do become emotional - and that's OK; we are human after all.

dahoov2, keep posting. It's not that hard to post pictures or, at the very least, links to photos. Give it a whirl and come back with some illustrations of the best and the worst you're trying to work with to make the improvements you want. If you have a scanner, take some blueprint paper, sketch out your house as it sits on the lot, your (3) floors so we can see the problems - and maybe see a solution. Post those.

Sooner or later, I'm going to wade in with my somewhat similar situation. Trust me, it's a conundrum worse than yours. What we want, what we "deserve" and what we get are often three different things. Don't give up. I also have an unsatisfactory laundry situation, so if you solve your problem, I'll feel hopeful that there's a solution somehow that will work for me. ;P

I wonder if you could improve the layout and flow of the house rather than increase the size.

my thoughts are this:
the realtor could have been a lowballer ie sell it cheap/fast. get some other realtors to give you a selling price before you decide anything.
don't look for houses by sq ft. we live in a 4 bedroom colonial that is 2200 sq ft (4 people, 3 dogs,4cats) it is not perfect but feels quite spacious because it is basically a box cut into large square semi open rooms. no grand foyer to take away bedroom space, no aesthetically pleasing but awkward angles. i have toured newer fancy homes that list as 2800-3000 sq ft but feel smaller than mine. if you are in the dc area, you will probably see quite a few colonials. go boxy for max space for the cost.
i am with you on the laundry room. mine is on the first floor which is great when compared to the basement but not as convenient as the second floor

Thanks guys. I have decided that moving is probably not what I'm gonna do. I'll save money and still be centrally located. I have access to anything here. So thinking ahead, If my hubby passes before me, I can be more self-reliant (long story but I have an eye disease and going slowly blind plus I have a dislike for freeways especially here because it's horrendous traffic, tunnels and bridges). So I guess this is why I decided to stay put. I have designed an addition to the house on a program called Punch Design Suite. The plan doesn't allow for the laundry upstairs because I would have to put it in the bathroom or closet .... but I get a killer master bath and walk in closet, a larger master bedroom (door is moved and closets demo and one dresser is gone). Downstairs I get a room where I'll put laundry, exercise room and a workroom (tool storage accessible from outside) and I get a cool little place to do a built in kitty litter box.... and oh, a laundry chute. Since the exercise equipment is now out of the garage room conversion we did, that's a full massive bedroom with a massive walk in closet (7x12 closet). This now gives me every solution except the smallness of the dining room (seems that I can't recess my china cabinet like I wanted). Apparently, I have enough money left to do a screened in porch where the deck is and king sized bed and have closet factory come out and design me closet organizers and refurbish the other full bathroom. So my only dissatisfaction now is the busier street and meh neighborhood (not shiny and new and has old power lines etc) and a smallish dining room (I'll just try to find a not so large new set I think and stop inviting so many over). I think that's pretty close to as perfect as is gonna get.

I'll end up going from 1797 square feet to about 2350 square feet I think they said. My taxes will be lower here too because this is the lowest tax rate city in the Hampton Roads area. So that is a bonus.

This post was edited by dahoov2 on Tue, Oct 21, 14 at 12:55

You made a decision and it sounds like a good one. Congrats! Now you can move along with concrete goals in sight without the angst of vacillating between possibilities. That gets old and tiresome.

Thanks; today I was designing the laundry room. I already did the bathroom and workroom. I will not have a laundry upstairs but I'm going to have a killer downstairs one! ;) I'll be able to have cubby's and a place to fold now and people can bring up their OWN laundry (solves my heavy load carrying issue). I'll have a chute for downstairs issue. PLUS I will have all the storage I need and can even put my ironing board down there instead of the entryway closet. I'm working on a kitty litter area as well, to hide the kitty litter. I'd love to post photos so thinking I'll set up and account and in the next few months, post the progress if there's a place to do that on this site. Maybe make my own page I guess! Now I'm excited because there may be enough money in the budget to get a hot tub ;)

Good luck!

You are fortunate to be in a location you like (even if it's a bit boring.) We were in a similar situation and if I could have picked up my house and yard and moved it elsewhere, I would have been very happy renovating our house and living there forever (or at least a couple more decades.) Instead, we just really had to leave despite liking the house. No amount of renovating would have improved the awful neighbor situation or the worsening tax situation (and that is something to consider... improving a house in a less-than-desirable town with a crazy-high tax rate will only lead to much higher taxes which would make it even more difficult to sell... if we were to renovate any house it would not be done in that town. But you seem to have a much better tax situation!)

"Over-improving" is really only an issue when it comes to selling. Sometimes it could mean you have to write a check at closing, or sometimes it means you just don't get back what you spent. But maybe now the trend is finally moving away from viewing homes as solely or mostly investments. There is nothing wrong with spending money to enjoy your living space, even if ultimately you don't make that money back.

And, it's mostly a non-issue if you plan on staying in place. The only bad scenario I can think of is if for some reason you suddenly can't afford to live in the house and have to sell, and will lose a lot of money.

If you're in a good location and plan to stay in place for a long time, (rather than viewing this as a "flip" of sorts) you may even benefit from an improving market over time, if you did want to sell. These non-shiny but still nice locations seem to become the latest expensive neighborhoods over time....

Also, I love your idea of a kitty litter area! :-)

I did the same thing with my last house, assuming that it would BE my last one. It needed updating badly and I decided to use only the good stuff for the renovation. Bought it during the Bubble and so I had no reason to think that I would not at least break even if I ever did have to sell. I put an additional 50% of my original purchase price into the renovations.

What's that saying: "Man plans, and the gods laugh" or something like that? :-/

Between the Great Recession and Hurricane Sandy, when I had to put it on the market last year due to personal circumstances, I had to continually drop the price until the only offer I got was tens of thousands less than what I'd originally paid for it. By that time I had no choice but to take the money and cry. So I not only lost all the money put into the improvements but even more besides. After paying the realtor commission I ended up taking almost a 60% LOSS on the house.

Would I over-improve again? No. But also, would I use low-end materials that I feel will not hold up over time? Not that either. Unfortunately the good stuff comes at a price and may end up back in the "over improved" category in the future. We never know. :-/

p.s. I am currently in a house that I hate, and ended up having to "overspend" on because of undetected serious problems found after purchase. I live in a state where seller disclosure is effectively toothless, so no recourse against either seller or incompetent home inspector. So sometimes over-improving isn't even voluntary, LOL

This post was edited by Helena2013 on Mon, Nov 17, 14 at 17:31

@ Lizzie; I appreciate you mentioned tax rates. We are in the lowest rate area... in our area anyway (we are a nest of several cities called Hampton Roads). Anyway, it does make more money sense from that standpoint to stay here. So many factors are going into it. I decided on several things which I'll mention in a moment. Hope you like where you moved!

@ Helena; SOOOO sorry this happened to you! Timing is everything in real estate for sure. A lot of people got swept up into that market time because they were continually talking about now is the time to buy, they were building more and more and stocks were all around and it was on the financial channels to invest.... and then BOOM. It literally was overnight it all collapsed. We were fortunate to have bought our home just at the beginning of it all, literally on the edge. A couple months later, prices rose and kept rising.. You lost a LOT and I feel sad for you. I hope you are recovering. We did lose half our retirement at that time because they told everyone invest in tech and stock funds in your 401k; yeah right....

To save money on this addition, I am going to do some painting (not all but some), seal the concrete in the storage room, supply the cabinet hardware (have a ton of new ones left over from the kitchen and love them), I'll supply the sconces, bathroom vanities, door hardware, I'm trying to get them to reuse windows (but one contractor said can't do that cause of code); I am directing them where to buy the French doors (I want the ones at Lowes not the expensive ones they want), and I'll be making the closet organizers and buying stock cabinets for the laundry room (they'll be soft closing and wood, but I've worked out the dimensions to get all common sizes-custom is just sizing). I'm also thinking about making my own mudroom coat rack/bench. I'll be making an ironing board hanger thingy and I'll be making robe hook bar for the bathroom. I'm pretty crafty. I'm a REALLY great shopper too. If there is a bargain out there, I will find it. I bought a 700 dollar sink for 320,,,,I will call across the country to see if they have one of something left if I have to. I got a 400 dollar faucet for 120 (yes, everything new in box)! I look daily and stockpile things if I have to. I had glassware, a toaster, can opener, towels and coffee pot stuffed under the beds till my kitchen was done. LOL I heard Lumber Liqudators is moving here and nearest one will be 90 miles away then, so I'm gonna go down and get my 12' counter probably soon and just put it in the garage conversion room we did for a few months! It will save me about 267 dollars doing that in shipping alone. More if they have stuff in store before they move (sale!). Certain things I'll spend a ton on. Towels, bedding etc. I love comfort and quality. But I refuse to buy something for a name. ;) I hope this thread is still here when this is done. i'll learn how to post photos.