The leaders are the ones who aren't being fair for whatever reason and this should not be allowed to continue. I would go to the district office and talk to the council president before the next meeting. This is inexcusable and if they don't know how to get another badge (unbelievable!!) they need to ask their supervisors how to settle this. A little girl is hurting and it shouldn't be ignored. By the way, many years ago, I was the District Trainer for scout leaders, and I know this would not have been tolerated then. I can't believe it would be now! Hugs to your daughter and to you for letting her know that you will support her! Bettye/AZ

You need to go to the local Girl Scout Council. There is no reason the "leaders" would be unable to get the badge for your DD. They just don't want to for some reason. Now occasionally there would be a problem getting another participation type badge if they are out of production like say a cookie patch for a certain year but I am assuming this is a "try-it" badge and the leaders should have no problem getting another one.

Thank you for you replies. Yes, this is a try-it badge. I don't understand why they don't seem to understand how important it is for my daughter to get this badge and be like all the others in her troop.

One note: the day before the first meeting that was a meeting just of moms (we were to learn more about the troop, bring a checkbook for dues, etc.) I got a phone call from one of the leaders. She is the only one I really knew since we both were room parents for the same kindergarten class. This leader basically asked me to withdraw my daughter from the troop--she said she had the list of names of the other girls and she wondered if my daughter would "fit in." I was really upset and angry but I wanted to learn more--like why she thought this. The leader said that my daughter was not as loud or "sophisticated" as the majority of the other girls. She also knows that my daughter struggles with shyness and also has some medical issues--none of which should matter or affect her involvement in Brownies. I thought one thing that girl scouting taught was acceptance.

I told this woman that I wanted my daughter to try it out since she wanted to. And that if my daughter decided that it wasn't for her, then we would consider dropping out, but certainly not before she even tried it. I learned after speaking to this woman longer that there were several girls wanting to get in to the troop but were on a waiting list. I suppose these girls were a better fit than my daughter. Believe it or not, when I informed this woman that we weren't going to drop out, she said "Well, at least your daughter helps w/ our demographic!" (My daughter is 1/2 Irish and 1/2 Chinese.)

So who knows if there is something else going on here. I'm just frustrated by the lack of cooperation and understanding that I'm getting (or not getting...!)

I would roar.

I would go to their leaders or supervisors or district people...now.

One hour later I would go to the state level and then one hour later I'd be at the next highest level right on up to national or international, or whatever they have. I'd make sure every rung of leadership knew what was going on...quickly.

This sounds like a bunch of busy-body hens with their noses stuck in the air.

Oh man; I don't normally get hot reading a post, but this would be settled, to my satisfaction, tomorrow.

(And I don't even have kids.)

And for the woman with the "demographic" statement. She would be fired, or releaved or duty, or drummed out, or what ever they do to fire and shame former leaders.

JMHO

Please let us know how you resolve this problem.

This makes me soooo mad and she isn't even my baby!

I would take this as high as I could go and I would repeat all these thoughtless comments that you've been subjected to. These people don't sound like leaders to me. Doing this might make you the bad guy in their eyes, but something has to be done.

I feel so badly for your little girl.

Mammie

I'm in line with Caroline. I'd be raising some 'sh!t with the entire association. That woman would not be a leader ever again. I might even write to the public pulse or somewhere that would let it be known what happened.
Leslie

My thought is (I would think this way...I was super protective of my kids) if the scout leaders are ignoring this issue....are they ignoring her in other things too.

If she wants to I'd find another troop or something else for her to meet friends.

Hugs for her...and you...I know how it can hurt moms.

patti

I can only repeat what everyone else is saying.Report the problem to the District Council and most definitely report the so called leaders.I would have their job yesterday! That is just not acceptable.then when all is settled if DD wants to change troops let her.I think though when these uppity "leaders" are gone things will change. Maybe you could even help with her troop??

Good luck!

The leaders know how to get an extra badge. You might mention to them politely that you are thinking of going to your council or whatever to see about getting the badge. Then do it.

Also, it is very important that you do not discuss this struggle with your daughter. It will be confusing and upsetting to her. As far as she is concerned, everything is fine.

Are there other Scout groups in your area? You might check into another group where they welcome all girls. This one sounds a little too "exclusive" to me.

I love Scouting and have a strong belief in its value to boys and girls. Stick with it.

Thanks again for the advice. I will start making phone calls tomorrow and sent yet one more request via email to each of the leaders. We shall see. I find that while of course I would like to blast these women, I am mindful of the fact that I see these women at my daughters school quite frequently. We are all very active volunteers through class function and the PTA. We have many years ahead of us with the shared schooling of our children. I have asked my daughter if she is happy in Brownies, and so far she says yes. I've volunteered at a meeting and my husband has as well--we wanted to help and to see how things are going in general. Overall, the girls in the troop seem to be having a good experience.

I guess I am worried that I will ruin what has so far been an overall positive experience for my daughter, and that these women can make things difficult for us in the future.

I'd be making some noise for sure! I was a Brownie leader 30 years ago and this is NOT acceptable at all.
Check out this link. Order that badge.
Kathy G in MI

Here is a link that might be useful: Girl Scouts

No, the lesson for your DD should not be life's not always fair. The lesson should be: mom is in your corner and people should do the right thing. If you were the leader, you would not accept disappointing one of your Brownies. You should expect the same from these leaders. You are not being unreasonable.

I would tell the leaderes, look ladies, this situation must be resolved. The only acceptable resolution if for DD to get the badge she earned. If you do not have control over the badges, I will speak to the person who does. I understand you're busy, stressed, so I will speak to your supervisor myself.

I would go up the chain until I got the badge for DD. It's not being pushy or unreaonable. It is speaking up for what is right. I bet it will be relatively easy once you speak to someone who wants to do the right thing by a little girl. Someone CAN get this badge to you, it's not a closed case.

This is not about having what the other girls have, or fitting in. This is about receiving what is rightfully hers to have. This is about knowing it's not only OK, it is right to speak up for yourself. Anything less is allowing the leaders to effectively steal your DD's badge, and the pride she deserves to feel when it's on her sash.

I would give some long, hard thought to renewing with this troup again. It sounds like only you, not your daughter, has been subjected to the adults' inconsiderate words/attitude. So if, other than this badge, she is having a great time with her friends, oblivious to the moms' words to you, it would be hard to put an end to that for her. So that decision is probably a lot more involved. In the meantime, she deserves the badge, don't back down.

Do leaders get paid?

If so, I'd go as far up the ladder to complain; if not, sadly, you may be wasting your time.

Many people are just incompetnet and very rude. But I find if they are vounteering their time, they will often just say "if you want it done differently, then why don't you be camp leader, etc?"

Sadly, there are children involved in all of this.

Personally, I would ask the leader what needed to be done in order for your daughter to get the badge and not back down until she came up with an actual resolution. There may be more to it than you know or procedures that need to be followed by the leader (like 20 badges have to be ordered at a time, they can only put in orders quarterly, etc).

If you can, you could even e-mail the leader requesting the badge and copy everyone else in the troop (you know, dumbly asking if there was anyone else that also didn't get the badge). Explain the whole story about the dance, and how upset your daughter is, etc.... I find when things are put in writing and people know others may be made aware of their incompetence, they are often more prone to react.

Good luck.

Being firm on this issue is mandatory. If you let them get away with this, I'll bet it's only the FIRST. Don't be a doormat and let them walk over you.

Hugs to your daughter.......

I'm with the opinions expressed thus far: I agree that the girl should get the badge that she's earned, without further hassle. That whatever actions be undertaken as are needed in order to have her receive it.

As for my evaluation of my offspring, I just had a discussion today with a friend of 35 years whose kids could never do any wrong, and I was more objective with my kids, I like to think. She, a widow of limited means, is giving occasional support to a son who has difficulties.

However, with regard to your daughter's future as a Brownie ... unless there's a change in leadership, which may be improbable, I think that some thought may need to be given regarding her probable future experience in that troop.

As some of the leaders may feel that they have a score to settle with her Mom ... if she returns in the fall, especially being rather painfully shy, I can see that there might/could well be problems with the leaders.

I think that you might consider finding a group for her elsewhere.

Please let her know that its pretty well the unanimous opinion here that she's been getting a rotten deal.

Good wishes to her for a happier future in Browniedom ... without having the Brown Owl fly over her and leave a deposit.

ole joyful

Ditto to what joyful has said,my DD was a brownie for
three years and I cannot understand their reasoning,
we had shy girls,boisterous girls and disabled girls
in our group and they were all given a fair go.

Thank you all again for your input. Kathy thanks for the link---not I believe it is not a Try-it badge as I can't find it. It must be something special ordered for the dance. I haven't told my daughter anything about what is really going on and when she asks about the badge, I tell her that her leaders are trying hard to find it. I also have broached the possibility of her not being able to get one, and she said "That's alright, Mom, the important thing is that I learned dance and had fun with Daddy."

Take it straight to the council.
This is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Tell the council that you will take it to the local TV station(s) and newspaper...that they are discriminating.
By paying her dues, your daughter basically has purchased rights to attend activities and participate to the fullest.

This has been going on for almost 6 months now. You don't owe them another request for the badge-I would go up the ladder without further notice. Furthermore-when I spoke with the powers that be-I would tell them there are other things you are not happy with, and would like to find another troop for fall. At this point, they have treated your daughter so shabbily (whether she is aware or not) that I would always feel resentment. I would think that regular parents are not with their kids at every meeting??? Who knows what you don't see or she doesn't think to mention??? Sounds like the other girls could be taking over activities while the leaders let your shy girl watch and barely participate. I would make darn sure the powers that be were made aware of the race comment, the not as loud and sophisticated comment, and the badge. I bet you could think of a few more things as well. Let the chips fall where they may. They can't stop you from volunteering etc at school. They don't run the place. You will be doing this not only for your daughter, but future scouts as well. Even without the badge issue, it sounds very cliqueish (sp?) to me. There are plenty of other troops around.

I agree with what the others are saying about going up the ladder to talk to someone who can solve this problem for you. I feel your hurt for your daughter. I wouldn't let it stop here.
Lu

I agree, with everyone else. It is time your daughter got that badge. I remember as a brownie and girl guide just how much those badges meant for me and you shouldn't have to fight for it. If they couldn't hand them to all of the girls because there weren't enough, then all of the girls should have had to wait.

Dree, I was an unofficial co-leader (I had camping experience!) for 8 years. I also worked near the council headquarters and the shop where they had the badges and other scout stuff, so I picked up the badges and anything else the leader needed - she would call ahead that I was coming and I'd pick up whatever. There is a sheet the leader has with the troop members names and that they did the activity thus qualifying for the badge, wheather Try-its or higher...you can volunteer to pick up the badge, usually they cost around a buck, since they're small, taking a copy of the "badge" sheet... and yes, the "leaders" are volunteers. I usually just hung around when I dropped off my daughter - they always appreciated any help at the meetings - which were held in a school cafeteria. good luck Debby

yes, you need to go to the council and see that your daughter is rewarded for her hard work.

But you have to also remember that once you've done that, your daughter's 'fun' at being a scout will be at an end. The vindictive, hateful women running this troop will no doubt step up their discrimination, and make your daughter miserable. Even if you find her a new troop in the fall, she's no doubt going to have a bad taste in her mouth when she remembers how poorly this bunch treated her. That's a real shame. And no--I don't have an answer for you. I just see no good coming from this situation, no matter how you handle it. You didn't cause the problem, and it's going to be next to impossible, I'm afraid, to fix it without your daughter paying the price for it.

Maybe it's time to think about some other activity for her? Something where she can start fresh, where the adults in charge understand how important it is for children to have love and acceptance in their lives. How about 4-H (we had great experiences there) or maybe a class that would reinforce a special interest your dd has--dancing, art, gymnastics, for example. How about getting her involved in the local little theater group?--great way to combat shyness.

Hope you find a way to make this all a positive experience for her. Shame that adults are acting so exclusionary to a small child who needs them.

Just be careful that you don't make this simply about complaining. I find there are many people (and I'm not saying that you're one--I just want to point out that it can happen) that turn their problems into complaint sessions. Their mission becomes more about complaining, and less about finding a solution.

Obviously what that leader said to you about demographics and your daughter not fitting in was way wrong, but she's probably going to deny it, say it meant something else, that it was taken out of context, that you (and your daughter) are just over sensitive, etc. I hate to say this, but's it's probably a no win situation for you. The powers that be probably aren't going to come in, and interview everyone, dismiss that leader after making her apologize to you and get your daughter her right badge. And, sadly, many of the friends parents will probably side with the leader and will probably just think you are being an over sensitive complainer too. It could affect your daughter and her play dates.

Of course call people over her head if necessary to get the answers about what to do to get the badge and sincerely think about finding her a different troop.

Once you have the badge and if you have decided to move your daughter to another troop, then I would consider writing a composed letter to her supervisors explaining why you have moved your daughter out of the troop. If you keep her in that troop, they're probably not going to take your complaint all that seriously, right? Why would a mother keep her daughter in a group with such a leader?

If you move her out, and she has her badge, then at this particular point, you no longer want or need anything from them, so they may take your complaint more seriously.

But, I would guess, once she has her badge, you may decide that it's not that bad after all and keep her in the same troop with her friends. Only you will be able to figure what is best for everyone involved... just don't burn too many bridges getting there. A missing badge isn't the end of the world, even to a child. It's fun to bi^ch and helps to get it out, but keep perspective.

You are dealing w/ some women who are not worthy of being leaders of children. You need to listen to all this advice here and raise some h-ll. Nobody would mistreat my daughter and get away w/ it. The powers that be would be sick to know they have women in these positions, trying to be an example. You don't need this.

I don't agree that your daughter's fun as a Girl Scout has to end because of this one experience.Don't let these venomous bimbos chase you away. My DD was also shy as a child and had a similar experience when she graduated to Junior Girl Scouts. The leaders were only into her own kids and their best friends leaving my DD behind and not including her as completely as they should have. We found another troop for her and she ended up with a great experience and made several new friends.

When you contact the local GS Council ask them about other troops in your area. There are many caring leaders out there as well as the self-serving kooks. Since you are already involved with the school perhaps you and another mom could start your own troop for the other girls who were on the "waiting" list. There should never be a waiting list for scouting. There is always a need for caring leaders.

I wouldn't necessarily label these leaders as mean. For everything you mention, there is a potential reasonable explanation.

How do these leaders generally interact with your daughter on a day-to-day basis? Are they usually reasonably kind? Do they seem to like your daughter and include your daughter? If so, I'd go with the kindest possible interpretation. If not, then they are just mean old witches who need to be reported. Get your daughter out of the troop now, while the ties are not so strong. It is sometimes harder to bond with a new troop later, after the girls have been together for a long time.

If they are usually reasonably kind and considerate leaders then consider this:

* Some of my daughter's patches were custom made for the event, and I suspect it would be difficult and expensive to get just 1 more patch.

* How would the leaders feel if their daughter didn't get a patch - I know my daughter just automatically knows if I organize something and there's a sacrifice to be made, I'll ask her to make it. There are leaders who just expect kids to understand and deal with it, but they expect the same from their own kids, too.

* The leaders should be more understanding and kind about the patch, I agree. But I also know that many volunteer leaders are just overwhelmed, there are so few parents who will be leaders. Many parents will send things in and *help*, but few will step up to the plate and *lead*.

* Remark about fitting in - there have been several times over the years that I was more familiar with a school situation or a group situation than some of the parents. And sometimes I just wanted to tap the mom on the shoulder and say, please, dear, you are making a mistake, your child would be so much better off in XXX rather than YYY. I just bite my tongue to a bloody stump and don't say anything.

But there are some Brownie groups in our area where the kids all belong to the same swim/tennis neighborhood - they are neighbors, they swim together every day in the summer, their moms play tennis together, etc. Those groups are so tightly knit that I didn't want my daughter in one of those. Perhaps this mom knows something about the group you don't, and it's not necessarily something "bad" about your daughter.

* The demographic remark - my kids (teenagers) go to a diverse school, and they and their friends make comments like that all the time. However, it's always done in a spirit of acceptance. Not in a spirit of tolerating differences but a spirit of enjoying differences. You would know best whether or not this mom was making a light-hearted comment or a mean one.

Sometimes the shyest kids blossom into the happiest, most well-adjusted teenagers. If the troop leaders are mean, your daughter is better off in another troop, even if she struggles with shyness now. This patch thing is just the tip of the iceberg if the leaders are truly mean.

I haven't read any of the responses to your post but I used to be a Brownie leader and I was responsible for purchasing the badges so I don't understand when they say they don't have any control over the badges. They do. Have you tried going online to the council site and ordering one yourself? I'm not sure if you can or not - it's been a lot of years since I was a Brownie leader. Or maybe contact the local council to see how you would go about getting one.

All those little girls have the badge except for this little girl thru no fault of her own. I am certain all the kids are aware of this. They should not have received theirs if there weren't enough. 3 leaders and noone can handle this??? Call the powers that be!

I've read every reply several times and thank you all for taking the time to post your comments. Everyone has valid points and I appreciate them all. I think the leaders just don't think this is a big deal--as daisyinga wrote, they probably would just tell their daughters to suck it up. I don't coddle my child--trust me, she has had her fair share of disappointments--but I want her to understand that it is through no fault of her own that she is the only one in her troop w/o the badge. She won't be traumatized, she'll be fine in the end. But I just wanted to see what other, non-interested parties, think of this b/c I did fear, as Carla35 pointed out, that my complaint was turning into something more.

The leaders are not mean, but they have given me the brush off before. During the cookie drive, they told the girls that they could sell cookies that would be considered donations and they can tell buyers the cookies can be donated to either the local firehouse or to the troops in Iraq. My daughter ended up selling 100 boxes to a family friend whose brother is in Iraq. He made clear that he wanted the cookies he bought donated overseas. Well, when it was time to deliver the cookies, the cookie mom (a volunteer, not a leader) told me that all the donated cookies were going to the firehouse. She said it was easier. I did not think this was right. I know the buyer would never know, but my daughter and I would know and this was morally wrong to us. So they all sighed and rolled their eyes at me and asked if I would like to drive the cookies to Baltimore (a good hour away) and find out how to put them in an overseas container to Iraq. My husband got upset at all this b/c 1) the buyer is his friend and 2) we didn't sign up for extra work--no one said if you sell donated cookies, you have to figure out a way to get the cookies overseas.

In the end, the cookie mom found a troop that was sending a lot of boxes to the troops as part of their community service and she just added the ones my daughter sold.

But because of this, I think they leaders think I'm troublesome. BTW, I offered to help find out how to get the cookies overseas but did not find anything out before the other mom did.

Anyhow, it probably is more a matter of me not fitting in so well than it is my DD.

If the waiting list is that large to get into your daughter's current troop -- would you be willing to be a leader of a 'new troop'?
But most definately -- talk to the local GS Council and make your case with them about the issues you are having. They need to be aware of what is occuring.

You know I can understand exactly where you're coming from. My kids are grown now but being a "good" mom made me the outcast of the neighborhood. The others moms "talked the talk" but I actually "walked the walk". I wanted to teach my kids honesty and honor and it's pretty darn hard when the so called adults talk about it but don't live it.

My DH and I ended up taking on leadership roles in Scouts, YMCA etc. The other parents took the credit. I will never forget how the parents didn't want to participate in "friendship day" or have their kids do anything for it one year during Cub Scouts. So we put out a jar at the pack dinner for "unofficial" donations.A mother put in a quarter and actually had the gall to approach me and tell me she wanted me to give her son a pin for participating. When I said we weren't doing pins since they voted not to do anything she got all huffy. LOL

You know this IS a big deal. Sure it won't be years from now but your DD has learned that she can't count on the people who claim to have her best interests at heart.I really think you should go ahead and not let them blow it off. Even if it means you having to directly to council and getting one yourself if possible.

Since she is the only one without one, a good leader would honor her in some special way if there really was no way to procure an extra patch. Perhaps a special certificate or some other non-official token of her achievement.

My only advice is to stay in your DD's corner and never back down in fighting for the values you wish to teach her. It will be well worth. Some of those snotty parents I had to deal with got their payback real quick once their kids entered the teens.

The fact that you are questioning yourself is proof that you are not making a mountain over a molehill. Follow your gut instincts on this one.

Scouting has changed since I was involved. We just never put up with that kind of misunderstanding. And that is one reason neither of my grandgirls finished GS. Attitude!! One went into Awanas and the other into childrens choir. It could be that your daughter and others might find a youth group that is more considerate. Are Camp Fire Girls still around? Awana's (church) is truly a great group, Check at your local YWCA etc. Your daughter wants friend, and what girl does not, she will find a group. My GD here never belonged, by choice, and is now in the Army, working at Walter Reed Army Hosp. and loves it. Just give your DD a big hug from us and she will find her place--music--choir--writing--acting?

Mariend, wildchild and azzalea and others who are so kind--We have tried hard to help our extremely shy daughter find an extracurricular activity that suits her. Part of it is just innate personality (I am very introverted by nature) and part of her shyness I think has to do with the fact that the first 4 years or so of her life she was around mostly adults--doctors, therapists, parents--she was an only until she was 5. She is more comfortable with adults than with her peers--kids are unpredictable for one, they are often noisy and boisterous, and they move more quickly than she (she has motor-planning issues and hypotonia.)
Girl scouts seemed like a good chance for her to be with a smaller group of children--all girls--in what should be a safe and fun setting. I thought that even though she isn't fast friends with the girls, they would share a bond and perhaps stick up for one another at school, say hi, etc. We don't have a 4H here, there isn't a church youth group for her age at our place of worship, and i've found out that the sports clinics and teams her friends join are pretty competitive and stress winning. She isn't good at sports and we want something she wants to do, something that will boost her self esteem. I am going to check out our local YMCA for additional programs.

I have thought about starting another troop with my friend. I hesitate because it is a committment that I may not be able to take on, and also because we want our daughter to do something WITHOUT me. Separation from me is something she needs to work on--it doesn't have to be Brownies, but we were hoping it could be!

dreedree, if sticking up for truth and honor are "troublesome", please don't ever stop making trouble. Be a good role model for your child, and for us :-)

Perhaps there is a kind-hearted explanation for their racial quota remarks & apparently careless behavior to your daughter badge ... but lying to the public about sending cookies to the troops overseas is despicable. Man I'd be tempted to call the local news media on those (fill in with bad word of your choice, I'd pick the "b" one myself). That is purely SHAMEFUL!

I think when we post we probably all bring a little bit of our own baggage to our response. And I will freely admit that my particular baggage is that of exhausted volunteer leader.

I think that if there is a waiting list, then either there is a lack of troops in the area or this particular troop is attractive to a lot of girls for some reason. Either the other girls are really fun or the troop is very active, something is good about this troop.

Second, my impression is that the leaders don't have good communication skills. Perhaps it doesn't matter to most of the moms, because either they're all friends or some of the moms don't care, they're just happy they can drop their kids off. Situation #1 - the patch. I'll bet those patches were custom designed, and if so your troop leaders can't possibly get another patch themselves (with any reasonable expense and effort). They would have to contact the manufacturer, submit one of the other girls' patches, and get it designed and made, and order the minimum order. If that's the case, they should explain it to you, and they should explain it to your daughter.

Situation #2 - Lots of troops have lots of trouble getting a cookie mom. We always had to beg some mom. This cookie mom may be extremely busy, promised that it would be a minimal amount of effort, etc. When my daughter was younger, there's no way I would both be the cookie mom and go out of my way to find things like shipping instructions overseas, etc. It's possible the leaders didn't explain to the cookie mom, or the cookie mom found the position was a lot more work than she signed on for. Again, what she should have done is explained to you that she is simply overwhelmed, cannot commit to the time to get it overseas, and ask you if you'd be willing to help with that part. The leaders should certainly understand your commitment to getting the cookies where you promised they'd be, particularly if they told you that was going to be accomodated before you sold the cookies.

It is very possible they see you as troublesome, not because of something you did, or something your daughter did, but because of the way they've been treated before. Just like wildchild had a parent get huffy over something petty, I've had parents get huffy with me over the silliest things. Anyone who's been the leader of volunteer children's activities very long can tell you horror stories about demanding parents. It's my experience that most of the time, not all, but most, it's the parents who don't volunteer who are the most demanding. So it may not be that you are demanding, it may just be that the leaders are raw from earlier encounters with other parents and they see any requests as unreasonable.

Anyway, it's easy for leaders to get jaded and indifferent.

It is hard to find really good volunteer role models for our kids. We hope to find leaders, coaches, teachers, etc. who are kind, considerate, and excellent at what they do. The reality is that those types of leaders are few and far between. Most people are extremely busy working, supervising homework, cooking, cleaning, running errands, and taking care of their own families.

Was your daughter treated fairly? No. Was the cookie situation treated fairly? No. The leaders were wrong. But this happens over and over, in the school system, in sports, in the youth group and in the Scouts group. There is a time to stand up for your daughter's rights and insist that she be treated fairly. Perhaps now is that time for you and your daughter. But I don't think it will make a difference to the troop, the other girls, or the leaders.

If it were me in your situation, I would first decide if the attitude of the leaders is tolerable. If not, then find another troop now, or start one of your own. Then you be the leader you wish your children had. You model kindness and consideration. You might find that your daughter blossoms in that setting. As the daughter of the leader, she will have input, can help organize, it could be great for her in the long run. If there is a shortage of troops you could be making a difference in the life of your daughter and many other girls. Or you may decide it is worth it to you and your daughter to stay in this troop.

If you stay in the troop, here is a tactic that has served me very well over the years, in school, PTA, etc. Start by appreciating the leaders, even if they don't do a stellar job. Write them a note at the end of the year letting them know how much you appreciate them. Ask your daughter to draw them a picture to include with the note. If the leaders are planning a big event, like a camping trip, offer to keep their younger kids or bring dinner for their family while they're busy packing and planning. You want to show them that you are not a part of the problem, but a part of the solution. With something like the cookie event, if you have a problem, approach the cookie mom by telling her how much you appreciate all the time she has put in, how wonderful she has been to tolerate having boxes of cookies stacked all over her house, etc. Be sure she knows that you know how much effort she's spent and how inconvenient it is. Then tell her your dilemma and offer to arrange the overseas shipping yourself.

If that tactic doesn't work, then you need to run, not walk, away from this troop. If they don't respond to that, then either they are snobs, rude, condescending, or have some other problem your daughter just doesn't need.

Leadership styles vary widely in Scouting, in my experience. What works for one family may not work for the other. You sound like a very reasonable, conscientious mom who is not asking anything unreasonable from the leaders. But if the troop is working well for the others but not for you, you might need to find a troop with leaders that are more compatible with you in their approach. The problems you see now with your current troop will only get worse as time goes on and hurts/slights pile up.

Good luck!

I did GS's with my DD for over 8 years as her leader and as the leader of my area. These ladies need to remember why they are in GS's it is for the girls not their own personnal little club.

These gals are the ones that give scouting a bad name, scouting is for all little girls ALL!

I used to have to only go drive to the council office and buy badges what are they trying to pull.

Call the council ASAP before these ladies ruin it for your darling and others.

I want to slap those ladies!! Maybe you can become a leader I loved it:)

I was typing out my ridiculously long post when you posted your explanation of your daughter's shyness and medical issue, so I didn't see it before.

You're doing what any reasonable, loving mother would do for your daughter. What you're looking for is not unreasonable, and in a perfect world the Brownie leaders would take your daughter under their wing and help her with her issues. In the real world leaders often don't have the time, the energy, the understanding.

In my experience, Girl Scout troops often develop their own personality or niche, often reflective of the leaders. Some are outdoorsy, hiking, camping, etc. Others are really into badges/awards, others are very compassionate and kind with people who need special care. It doesn't sound like this particular troop is going to be a good fit for your daughter in the long run.

One thing you said particularly resonated with me. they would share a bond and perhaps stick up for one another at school. My son and one of his friends both had a difficult situation at camp one time, and I mentioned to the dad later that I had hoped they would stick together and stick up for each other. The dad told me he thought they were young for that type of reaction, that bond and mindset usually comes later. That dad was right, my expectations were unrealistic for their age. When they were teenagers they did stick up for each other, but when they were younger it was usually every man for himself, or friend-of-the-day type thing. Girl Scout troops that stay active do often develop a deep bond and protectiveness of each other. It develops over time. That's why it would be a good idea for you to look for a compatible troop now, or start one yourself.

I wish you the best. It's hard......too bad those kids aren't born with an instruction manual.....

Dear daisyinga, How kind and thoughtful you are to write so carefully to me. I totally get your message in the long email and this more recent post. I try not to be hypocritical--I'm not fond of these leaders, but I do appreciate the time and effort they make to lead the troop. There is only one Brownie troop in this school and the leaders decided to limit the membership to 13. My daughter was ensured a spot b/c when she was in Kindergarten, she was on a list to be a Daisy but then that troop never was formed. Anyway, I've thanked the leaders plenty of times: most recently, the girls made a card for mother's day that really was sweet--they cut paper flowers out and on the stems they wrote things that they would do for their moms--like "I will help watch my sister while you cook" or "I will clean my room." I told the leaders that the card will be a momento of when my daughter was 6 and thanked them for thinking of it. I emailed the cookie mom and thanked her for her hard work and when the leaders ask for volunteers, I always try to help out. As I mentioned, once I was sick and my husband juggled his work so he would be the parent volunteer rather than us leaving the troop in the lurch. But despite my being active and appreciative, I am still on the outside looking in.
I also hear you about the mindset coming later in life to our kids when it comes to sticking up for each other. My daughter is not athletic and although she no longer needs PT, she physically can't keep up with the others. One Brownie meeting was held at the troop leader's house and all the girls walked together as a group after school. My daughter told me that half way there, they all ran the rest of the way and she was left to walk by herself. I asked how she felt and she said "well, mom, i wanted to run but i was afraid to fall...maybe next time can you walk with me?" Even though she has friends in Brownies, at this age you are right, it's everyone for herself!

But despite my being active and appreciative, I am still on the outside looking in.

One Brownie meeting was held at the troop leader's house and all the girls walked together as a group after school. My daughter told me that half way there, they all ran the rest of the way and she was left to walk by herself

That right there says it all. These leaders don't have a deliberately inclusive mindset, and they're not teaching their daughters to have an inclusive mindset, either. It's all around - if you fit in, fine, if not, well, sucks for you.... The world is full of people like that. You probably encounter it in adults all the time and don't think anything of it. It's at work, at school, in sports, the neighborhood, and sadly sometimes at church. But it cuts to the bone when it affects our kids.

These moms don't get it, they don't want to get it. Reporting them won't help and confronting them won't help.

Please consider starting your own troop, it sounds like there's a real need in the area. Don't give up, eventually your daughter will find some nice, like-minded friends.

I have seen so many situations where shy kids who struggled as young children bloomed into wonderful, compassionate teenagers with deep friendships. It's a painful process. I truly do wish you the best.

I don't post very much but I had to give you my opinion. I have no daughters or had anything to do with Brownies.
But if I had a daughter in your daughters group, I would be finding another Brownie troop for her.
These so called leaders are supposed to be teaching these girls morals and values. I thought Brownies were from all walks of life. No matter what color, religion or financial background they were from and were all treated equal.
Granted your daughter deserves her badge, she earned it and *kudos* to her!
But as Daisy stated "These moms don't get it, they don't want to get it. Reporting them won't help and confronting them won't help." And alas it does seem true. I think some people need to go back and take the Human Course 101.
I would not want my child in a group like that. But that is just my own 2 cents.
You sound like a great mom, I would want my child in "your" group. :)
Susan

oh my ....there are some things that just don't change...

our case was being the "new family" (cub scouts) and ds1 was ignored, although he had met all the requirements for a certain badge...

my dd's leader moved and took all the money with her so scouting has left a vary bad taste in my mouth...in fact, i seriously doubt if any of my grands will do anything other than sports...

you've recieved some good advice. i do have one other reccomendation...become as active at your dd's school as you have time for. it's a very good way to break the "click" cycle. attend pta/pto meetings, etc. you'd be amazed how knowing teachers can impress...hopefully you'll find true friends that will be the same group through-out your dd's entire school years.

Dear Daisyinga, sueque67 and susanjf, You all recommend worthy moves on my part. I agree that nothing will change and nothing good will come of it if I report what at best is bad judgement on the leaders' part. My husband and I are struggling over whether we should remove our daughter from the troop and I suppose we will use the Summer to mull it over.

I suppose there is something to be said for first instincts. I was the parent volunteer at the 2nd meeting--the first where a parent was allowed. The meeting was held at a leader's home a few blocks away instead of at school. We all walked together and I walked with my daughter and one other girl and the other girls were in little groups here and there. At one point, one of the girls began to run and she took a hard fall on the street. She began to cry. There are no sidewalks in this particular community so you either walk on people's lawns or the street. Several girls, including my own, ran to the fallen girl to see how she was. The troop leader closest to the girl shooed everyone away, saying "she's fine, get going, c'mon let's move." But what really surprised me is that she, the leader, kept going too! I caught up to the girl (whose mother happens to be a leader but wasn't with us), asked her if she was alright, looked at her skinned knee, told her we would clean it as soon as we got to the house, said how it must have been scary to fall, and then held her hand as my daughter, this girl, and I walked the rest of the way together. I know for a fact that this leader think I babied/coddled this child, but hey, if I took a hard fall on the street, I wouldn't want people to just pass me by without seeing if I needed help!

Fast foward to Halloween. My daughter went trick-or-treating with another Brownie. As I said, my daughter has PT issues but with one friend, it was fine--they walked a lot, ran some, talked incessantly, compared candies and were having fun. Then, another Brownie bumped into them and she wanted to trick-or-treat with my daughter's friend. She asked "Lily, why arent you with me!?--Let's run to the rest of the houses!" You see where this is going. My daughter hesitated--it was now dark. BUt she wanted to be part of the gang and so she ran before I could convince her this was a really bad idea. She fell hard, tripping over a fairly large decorative rock people place in their gardens. She dropped her wand (she was a fairy--of course!), spilled her bucket of candy, and she skinned her palms and her knees. Kids will be kids and the two Brownies did not look back once. They left her.

I'm not blaming anyone--accidents happen and yes I try not to make big deals over nothing. But I told my husband later that I felt that had the troop leader handled the girl's fall better--maybe, just maybe, the girls would see that a little compassion goes a long way. I felt it was basically a lost opportunity for this lesson.

Everyone--thanks for reading my long-winded posts and offering such insight and yes, compassion!

dreedree, this is the first chance I've had to respond to your thread, but I've read each post and would like to add my perspective, because something not too different happened to us once.

By the way, our kids share a common heritage of being half Irish, half Chinese. But mine thankfully never received any comments about fitting into the demographics! Anyway, I think that as our kids are growing up, inevitably, some things will happen occasionally that are unfair. I believe we have to decide which battles to fight, and which to just let go of and chalk up to "lif'e not always fair." I myself made one decision that I regret, because it just seemed at the time like a futile effort. But I believe I should have persisted until I got the matter settled.

When my DD was graduating grade 8, all the students who made the Honour Roll were asked to come up to the stage to receive their award when their name was called. My daughter made the Honour Roll, but her name was never called. For a second we thought perhaps they were giving her a special award, since she had earned the highest marks of her graduating class. But that wasn't the case. I obviously didn't want to make a scene right on the spot, so I waited until afterwards and went to the principal to ask why she wasn't called up for her award. He told me I could speak with him the next day at the school. When I went to talk with him, he told me that since my daughter was the Valedictorian, and had received a certificate for that, he hadn't felt it necessary to give her an Honour Roll award as well! My daughter was very happy to receive the certificate for Valedictorian. But it was not reflective at all of her scholastic achievement. She ended up giving the Valedictorian address because when the teachers asked the students who would like to throw their hat into the ring, no one volunteered. But since DD had represented her school in Public speaking for the past 5 years, she was comfortable speaking in front of large crowds, and agreed to do it.

The Valedictorian certificate has her name and the date printed on it. But DD had nothing that says she earned a place on the Honour Roll. The Honour Roll award was a gold medal with the date, the student's name and "Honour Roll Recipient" engraved on it. It came in a nice box and had a blue velvet ribbon that it could be hung from. Her Valedictorian certificate was not only in a cheap plastic frame, but more importantly, it is not reflective of her academic achievement at all. When I pointed out to the principal that she should have received something commemorating her hard work to earn such good marks, he acted like I was being trite, because she had received something. It was especially important to her because the school had been giving out Honour Roll medals since grade four, and DD had earned one every year.

So now, the other students who had also accomplished this(like her DB) would have 5 medals to put in their collection of school awards, but DD would be missing her medal for grade eight. We almost felt like she shouldn't have agreed to give the Valedictorian address, since that's why she ended up not getting an Honours medal! But when I tried to impress upon the principal that she shouldn't be excluded from the Honour Roll medal just because she happened to get a certificate for Valedictorian, he just said that he wouldn't be able to get a another medal now, it was the 2nd last day of school, etc. etc. I tried to offer to get it myself if he would put in the order, but he insisted the place makes medals and trophies in bulk and wouldn't make up just one medal. That sounds so much like what happened to your daughter!

There were only 2 days left of school and the principal was obviously too busy to care. I debated about going over his head to someone higher in the School Board, but ended up deciding they would probably just consider me a whiny mother and not want to bother with something so 'trivial' when they were closing things up for the summer. My DD was upset about not having the medal, but she was also caught up in the excitement of graduation dinner and party, and didn't dwell on it too much, so I kind of let it go. DD is now a happy, well adjusted 20 year old who won a scholarship to university. But even today, whenever anyone is complimenting her on her academic achievement, she mentions that the one thing that disappoints her so much is having that empty space in her grade 8 album where her Honour Roll medal should have been displayed! So even though it wasn't a Pulitzer Prize, that medal meant a lot to her, and I shouldn't have capitulated so easily.

Of course we always think of things too late, but I should have informed the principal that I would be calling back the following June when the school was ordering the Honour Roll medals for next year's recipients. Even if he wanted me to pay for it, at least the school could get one made up for her along with the bulk order. Unfortunately that thought didn't pop into my mind until DD was entering university, and it was too far in the past. So I thought I'd just mention that if the company just isn't able to make up a single badge at this point, don't hestitate to let DD's troop leader know that you will be requesting they order one for her in next year's batch, even though it will be a year late in coming. They would have absolutely no reason to not be agreeable to that!

Dear Pickyshopper (love that name!): THANK YOU for taking the time to post. I read and re-read your comments several times now, as has my husband. What you went through and how you and your DD felt then and now really resonated with me. But you did not capitulate so easily--really, you did try and isn't it hard to figure out how much to push for something?! Hindsight is 20/20...!

I am grateful that you've given me the idea of what to do if the leaders tell me, sorry, we can't order just one for my daughter. Next year there will be another Father/Daughter dance and they should be able to order one then. Of course, the badge will probably be different, but still at least it is something. And I also agree w/ Wildchild that my daughter should receive some other recognition of her achievement if she cannot get the proper badge. All this I will voice when I speak w/ the leaders in person.

No surprise, but I haven't heard from anyone since emailing and leaving messages on their phones.

The meeting on Wed is sure to be interesting.

Hey-wouldn't it be interesting if they gave you condesending looks and you pulled out a printout of this thread!!! Check the poll here-they should have done SOMETHING for your daughter. It was their mistake, they need to fix it somehow. Adults can understand mistakes are made, its not fair to ask a young child to suck it up and move on when she sees the other girls with their badges. I just couldn't let it drop. I think one of the things that bothers me the most is-they really don't seem to care too much about the whole situation. They have no intention of doing anything whatsoever about it. Like someone said, we all have our own experiences that give us our opinions. One time I took my 2 youngest to Lowes for the kids project of the month. They receive a Lowes patch at the end of the activity. I carry those out to the car while the kids carry their projects. I have no idea what happened (they were in a pocket on the inside of my purse, but somehow one was lost between Lowes and the car. I thought maybe it fell out of that pocket and spilled into my purse, so we left. It turns out it disappeared off the face of the earth! It never reappeared and Lowes told me they had no more. That was probably 3 years ago and I still feel bad. I had sewn the one patch on my daughters Lowes apron figuring I could get the patch replaced for my son. Believe me, it still bothers him a bit. Getting back to the subject, because of my Lowes experience, I'm thinking there's no way the leaders could have miscalculated the number of patches-there are only 13 girls!! I think the leaders of their daughter somehow lost one, and used yours as a replacement. You left early so they had one left to use. Now they are trying to blow it off. This was supposed to be a fun thing, but its turned into one thing after another-the not fitting in comment, the race comment, the badge, the cookies, The scouting problems are one thing, the PTA is totally separate. You can certainly volunteer at school and not worry about these women. I'm sure everyone knows what they are like.

Dear lisa fla: Thank you for your post. That your sons still feels bad and it was 3 years ago regarding the Lowe's patch only strengthens my desire to get my daughter the badge. She is the type who rarely complains but I know it is bothering her--plus, the fact it is a badge commemorating the father/daughter dance (she is very close to her dad) makes it that much more important to her.

I didn't mean to devolve into a complaint session about the race comment or the problems I had during the cookie drive--I just related them so you could understand the sensibilities of the leaders...! Again, thanks for your post.