Additional view.

Having the fridge, oven and stove in a straight line would be a problem for me if there are two cooks in the kitchen.

I am no guru, but that layout looks promising to me.

You said there would be 38" clearance on either side of the island. Does this mean from the countertop to the railing of the open stairway? And the stools will live in this space AND the space will be an active walkway? If so, then I don't think that is enough space. I think you need 60" for that application.

Would you consider just killing the seating at the island and plan to use the DR, which is RIGHT there, a few feet away?

do you plan on using the island most frequently for seating? It's not really positioned for optimal prep use.

I would move the refrigerator near the table, at the end of the cabinet run and place a pantry in the corner, to the left of the door.

I think I'd want to take that little area that is part of the L and enclose that portion as a walk in pantry. I'd also would want the fridge moved to the other end of the run as Texasgal47 suggested. This way people can get drinks etc. out of the fridge without walking into the working area.

The traffic patterns would be much better with a peninsula rather than an island. You really don't have room for traffic to the fridge behind the island. Do the peninsula andPut a prep sink on it, and you can do most of your work facing out into the room and your guests rather than a wall. And yes, I'd enclose the whole little area for a pantry.

Excuse the cut and paste.

Thanks to all of the above for your comments.

There are compromises all around here. What we set out to achieve was something visually pleasing that made the most of the square footage in the configuration restraints we had to work with. We knew from the start it would be a quantum leap better than what we had even if we did make a few mistakes here and there. Nevertheless, we do want to minimize the mistakes before the sledgehammers arrive.

Visually, the kitchen is at the back of a long narrow open room. The openness of the space is the room's greatest asset. To maximize this openness, the refrigerator, oven cabinet and pantry were placed against the back wall so as minimize their bulk and prevent them from blocking sight lines when the kitchen is being viewed from the opposite end of the room (the dining area or living room area). Also, the pantry, refrigerator and oven have big doors and it is nice to have the room to stand back from them when the doors are wide open.

Placing the refrigerator at the end of the cabinet run by the dining room would have its advantages but it would also block the sight lines and serve to "contain" the kitchen, which is the opposite of what we are trying to do. Thanks for bringing up the matter of guests serving themselves from the refrigerator. Can solve that with an under counter beverage fridge at the end of the island. It was planned anyway, but now we will reposition it with the convenience of our guests in mind.

Similarly, building an enclosed pantry defeats the openness goal, despite that I have always coveted them.

The island is a solution to putting the real estate left over after the essentials were dealt with to good use and to deal with the propensity of guests to hang out in the kitchen. It gives us the luxury to add some features (e.g., wine cooler) that would otherwise be prohibited by the space constraints. As well, we are hopeful we will be able to plunk guests on the non-working side of the island with a glass of wine so that they can be engaged in what we are doing in the kitchen without them interfering with what we are doing. In our experience, guests simply gravitate to the space, and, if it gets crowded, all the better provided we still have a way in and out.

Our initial design was for a peninsula rather than an island. Turning it into an island gave us much more usable cabinet space by eliminating one of those dreaded base corner cabinets, and giving us better access to the wall cabinets, among other things. It also gave us an extra entrance into the kitchen and something for the dog to run laps around.

Food prep is something that probably deserves additional consideration. Never really thought about a food prep area in any previous kitchen. Just used whatever area that seemed convenient. Looking at this design, I agree the island is not ideal. I'm thinking that the area to the left of the sink would be the primary food prep area and that we might want to make it a little larger, maybe centre the sink along that cabinet run.

Thanks again to all for your contributions.

I think live_wire_oaks gave you a very good layout for your space which seems to have some challenging angles to workaround. There is a lot you could do with that pantry space. Think butler's pantry, perhaps add wine storage, beverage refrigerator, chest freezer, countertop for microwave/toaster oven, etc.

BTW, where are the doorways and windows?

I need to reverse myself and second live_wire_oak's suggestions. With her design, you'll have more room to move around in your kitchen and still retain the nice sight line you are seeking. Also, I have a sink in my peninsula and agree with her comment that it's great to face your guests or family while you prep rather than a wall.

I am planning a similar layout for my kitchen, though mine's slightly smaller. Have you considered moving your dishwasher to the end (near the table), and having the sink cabinet right next to it? This would allow a shorter distance between the kitchen table to the sink and dishwasher. Also, you would maximize prep space right next to your cooktop.

I have provided a 3D rendering of the room in which the kitchen is situated, done at the time we were contemplating a peninsula. Next to the up stairway is a down stairway, and the dark patch depicts an opening to the floor below that has a railing around it. The ceiling is actually higher (12') than the ceiling height shown (8 or 9 ft.). Should have shown this earlier but forgot I had it.

As mentioned, we have no interest in closing in the pantry area as it would detract from the openness of the space (my apologies, this "openness" thing is getting tedious but is what the space is all about).

While contemplating the peninsula, we decided against the idea of the sink being in the peninsula because we did not want the dirty dishes piling up in such a prominent place. Maybe a prep sink would be the answer if it could be worked in, should we revert back to the peninsula idea.

Still preferring the island for the moment.

This post was edited by zampoo on Wed, Apr 17, 13 at 11:15

We are going to try this one more time.

This post was edited by zampoo on Wed, Apr 17, 13 at 11:17

The stairway makes a bit more sense why you would not want to enclose it. Are there any windows in the kitchen or do you rely on light from the adjacent spaces? Still think the peninsula plan works best given the dimensions of your space. The chairs will essentually back up to a wall. I don't think you have the width. You will need:

counters: ~25.5"
island w/ seating: ~43.5" (24" cabinets+18" for seating+1.5" counter overhang
recommended aisle width: ~42" (you have DW opening into your aisle)
recommended aisle width with chairs: ~48"

total: 159"

As drawn, you have 139" So you are 20" short. Some people do get by with slighly narrower aisles or overhang for stools, but in your case it would be too much. I would mock it up on graph paper, but I just don't see how you can fit in an island with seating oriented as you have it drawn.

Please tape off the area on your actual floor where you want the island, and put some barstools (or chairs) there. Have someone sit there, and the distance they would be from the countertop. See if it feels open enough for you to walk behind, perhaps while carrying something. That should help you to be able to decide if you have allotted enough room.

Our current kitchen occupies the space where the dining room is shown. It is a bank of uppers and lowers 12' long along the wall, a 38" clearance across, then a bank of lowers plus a 10" ledge between the wall and stairway. Pretty much the identical clearances as the proposed island design. We don't have stools because there is no knee room under the ledge but it seems there would be sufficient room for stools if there was knee room.

Can you measure the current distance between the edge of the ledge and the stairway? Perhaps Valinsv doesn't have it quite right.

Also, I think you need to realize that the concern is not if stools will fit, it is whether they will fit while allowing for adequate room to walk behind them. Why? Because if that aisle is blocked, people will automatically walk through the kitchen proper - past sink and range - through what is already a 1 cook kitchen space. I had this in my former kitchen, and visitors tended to congregate in the most awkward locations, such as right in front of the sink and the range (and that corner between them). This is what tends to happen when builders put in an island because "that is what people want."

In a large space, islands are popular because there is plenty of room to move around them and they prevent a sensation of being "trapped" in the kitchen. However, in a smaller space it becomes more important to protect the cooking zone which is not large enough to accommodate multiple people. We switched to a peninsula design. We can now accommodate multiple cooks, and visitors enjoy hanging out on the periphery of the space because there is plenty of room to do so.

We understand your desire for a certain look and feel. It is not unusual to place form over function. However, the people here will try to steer you to the most functional space possible within a desired form.

I personally think your best options are to reconsider the peninsula or ditch the stools and overhang at the island. If there is no sink or cooktop on the island, people will very likely still congregate around it, just standing. Which is why I still lean toward the peninsula.

How tall will the counter be? This may be useful:

And this may help, too:

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA guidelines from Starcraft Builders

If you do a pensinsula, just make the corner cabinet open up to the dining room and then you don't have any unused space.

I still think a full pantry in the corner would make the space look more like it makes sense and not really block much of the openess you crave. It also gives you a lot of extra storage.

Have you considered doing an island that extends past the kitchen area flares out some and allow seating on the end? Not as many stools maybe, but at least then you can access areas in the kitchen.

The little notch with the fridge and pantry seem like it will be a really tight space to open the fridge into. With a normal fridge it seems like you have 2 ft of space to stand and load groceries. Even with a frenchdoor fridge you'll have to step aside to open the doors. Don't know if a counter depth fridge would help. Not familiar with them. I still think they stick out some past the cabinets.

Enclosed corner

One other thing that might be worth thinking about is how you'll go about stocking the fridge, since in the current layout it looks like there isn't any counter space right next to it but only on the other side of the oven cabinet. The original kitchen in our house had only about 12" of counter between the sink and the fridge and I found it drove me nuts as it turns out we need a lot more groceries than can fit on 12"! It was one of those little things I never would've thought of until I had to deal with it. But you can bet our new (IKEA, hurray!) kitchen that the contractors are working on this week was designed with counter space right next to the fridge in mind. Good luck! Long, narrow spaces can be so tricky (I used to live in a DC rowhouse with very much this same layout, except with a lot more walls) but can be very elegant and I'm sure it will all look fabulous when you're done.

Does the island have to be straight? You might consider a reverse(?) L shape where 2 stools face wall A, and one stool face wall B. That may give you a wider aisle between the island and the counter.

It may be better to move the sink one cab to the table side and have DW on the left of the sink if that won't bother you in your prep area. That way having the DW door open when bringing the dirty dishes from the table won't be a problem.

Can't you have the fridge on 6' 2'' wall? If fridge and pantry doors won't collide pantry can be beside the oven (or you can have a smaller cabinet on the left of the range so that doors open freely). A shallow countertop between fridge and pantry and some shelves above may also be useful.

Thank you all for the helpful information and useful tips.

We were at a friend's condo yesterday and it turns out they have a 37" clearance between their kitchen bar and the wall, about the same as we are contemplating. No problem at all walking behind when someone is sitting there.

We have decided to move the sink down towards the dining room for more prep space to the left of the sink. Like the idea of moving the dishwasher to the left of the sink so as not to block the aisle but it may be awkward since we are both righties and it may interfere with other activities going on in the area.

Have experimented with the fridge on the 6'2" wall and have not come up with anything satisfactory. The biggest problem is accommodating the swing of the doors. Also, we would prefer not to be looking at the side of the fridge. By the way, the current plan has 48" in front of the fridge.

Would love to have counter space next to the fridge. I experimented with that idea a while back and will revisit it. I think it involved ditching the deep pantry and using shallow cabinets along the 6'2" wall. Sort of a walk-in pantry with one open wall.

You say you have 6'2" on your drawing. A normal fridge is around 3 ft + deep. My math does not get that to 48". Even a counter depth with the handles taken into account is about 2.5 ft, so less than 48". Just hate for you to not consider these things. You may decide you are fine with the small space left with doors open and stepping around, but at least you are making an informed decision just like you seem to have done with the island vs. Finding it out and have it bug you later if that is something you are not fine with.

How about putting the oven with some counter space nearby on the 6'2" wall and put fridge where oven is. A little less bulk sticking out.

The refrigerators we are considering are less than 26" deep.

Could scrap the wall oven (never had one anyway and wouldn't know the difference) and get a range, move the fridge to where the oven cabinet is. Get a single door bottom freezer with left hand hinges. Would lose the storage under the cook top and have to find a spot for the microwave, but it opens up some interesting possibilities in the pantry area and tightens up the work flow.