H-E-L-P ... apprehension about buyer & non-refundable deposit

15 years ago

I the Guardian for my mom, who's home is on the market. She is *out of money* and it may fall to foreclosure. The listing price is reasonable ($40K under appraisal) and just a bit over the outstanding mortgage. I received a contract 10 days ago at 10% less than list, closing in 2 weeks, contingencies on financing and inspection. The guardianship judge ordered for court review/approval of all contract(s) - an $800 process - and this one was approved. Inspection was put in work (but don't know if it was actually complete). In the mean time, buyer found that HOA doesn't allow for rental of unit w/i first year of ownership and retracted offer. Now, I don't belive this was appropriate - since it wasn't any contingency of ability to rent - but I'm not pursuing it ... I've already spent $800 getting the court review of the contract and approval to accept.

However, I now received another offer. This is from a co-worker who resides outside the US. This couple has been working towards an offer for several weeks and with much difficulty. First, they have much private/privileged information (months ago - when I was only considering selling the home). After placing on the market, they revealed their interst in purchase and I suggested they contact my listing REA (a valued mentor of mine). They were dissatisfied with the REA (and vice-versa) and sent numerous inflamatory messages to both the REA and me. They then sought other REA representation. That new REA called the listing agent and said they would not represent the oversea's buyer either. Long story shortened ... they then chose another REA in the same office as the listing agent for their representation. They placed a similar offer to the original with 60 days to close and a cash deal (and inclusion of various family heirloom antiques - which I previously said I would not include).

My concerns are this: the buyers have sent messages to both me and the RE suggesting they will file suit for misrepresentation (as I did not receive their first offer in a tmely manner --- which is irrelevant as I had already accepted the original offer). My REA has surmised that this deal is a disaster waiting to happen. I know these folks have threatened filing suit against other contractors, etc in the past. They are vilotile and demanding folks which I actally FEAR entering any contract with. But, as a guardian overseeing a property that will soon fall into foreclosure, I should entertain this offer.

I am wondering how to include a $600 - $800 non-refundable deposit made (that will be applied to sale if proceeds to closing). This will cover two things: (1) cost to attain court approval of the new "AS-IS" contract and (2) cost to have RE attorney review contract to verify I'm covered in case the buyers want to file suit in the future. You see, they are not able to view the property in advance and it is in very poor shape. I fear that they will either back out after inspection or - during remodel find more problems and try to sue me!

Again - I have had years of dealing with this buyer and know that there is going to be much cost, and stress associated with the deal (and potentially legal issues to consider)... and, in finality, there will be

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Comments (19)

funkill
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Oh - and I'm in FL.
mpinto
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Get a good real estate attorney before you do anything. Frankly I don't know what they can sue for if you have disclosed everything about the house and you are selling AS-IS. They sound like bullies. You are under no obligation to accept any offer.
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marys1000
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Well one of the reasons I won't be able to retire early is I'd rather spend money than encounter difficult issues with people. I've overpaid or not recovered money lots of times because its just not worth it to me.
If it were me I'd be worried enough about these people hounding me forever after they bought the house that I'd probably just cut the price to the mortgage price and try to sell to someone else.
If they are as portrayed, I wouldn't want them in my life. Sounds like they just live to make others miserable. As for their threat to sue - It would probably cost a few hundred but if you are worried or want to NIP THIS IN THE BUD - hire a lawyer to send them a letter stating they have no case and any further communication will be considered harrasement and subject to further legal intervention.
funkill
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
"If it were me I'd be worried enough about these people hounding me forever after they bought the house that I'd probably just cut the price to the mortgage price and try to sell to someone else."

One of my many concerns ... already, this *international investor*/co-worker asks to use my private charge card for his internet purchases (to get US prices for stuff) and to go to Best Buy, Circuit City, etc to make other purchases for him. And he's inquired about local contractors to perform the remodel if they purchase the place. I have accommodated him in the past - but NO MORE.

The worst thing is that I work with this individual on a daily basis (as I am the sole US rep for this company) and he is a fantastic engineer. But I did, finally, respond to one of the absurd messages that I would limit our relationship to work. Have any suggestions how to get out of this with degrading our work relationship further? I had thought of counteroffering at list price, close in 30 days, $800 non-refundable monies, and 30 days to close... he might not be able to "bite off" that counter....????

I don't know how to sell at mortgage price - and pay the closing costs. The original offer would have covered these costs, plus the legal fees - leaving just over $3,000 profit. And, I can't even lower the list price without court approval (ka-ching $$$).

Thanks for your suggestions.
xamsx
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Funkill, you could counter back for a 100% offer, cash only, $20K non-refundable deposit, with no contingencies. Do this through your agent. If you go forward with these people under no circumstances allow yourself any contact with them on matters pertaining to the house. Make perfectly clear that all contact needs to be through your agent or your attorney.

Now, as far as how to continue with a work relationship.... hope the above terms are so onerous these people become "insulted" and quit the transaction. Or, you could tell him since you have such a great working relationship you do not want to muck it up with a real estate transaction.

Anyway you look at it this may become uncomfortable for you. You must set boundaries though. If you continue to answer anything or accept emails from this person that are not work related, you are in for a very trying time.
housekeeping
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I would do something like the previous poster suggested about hardening up the terms (and secretly hoping this particular buyer will go away). One possible way to deal with the complexity of the multilevel relationship is to fall back on your role in this case as guardian. Approach the situation or explain it to them this way: if this were your personal property you would be content (NOT!, as my 11 y.o. niece would say) with the terms they were offering but since you have a court-supervised fiduciary duty you must, naturally, and regretfully -deep (in)sincere sigh, here- offer them only the above stated conditions, etc., etc.,

But, meanwhile, I wouldn't make any purchases on your card for these people. If his business is so important to your company than they can get a card for him.

Good luck!

Molly~
mariend
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Talk to a good lawyer for help to protect yourself. Change your credit cards and give out no information. Also being out of the US, he/she may not want to pay taxes, closing costs etc. Do not let them into the house. Any more threats, contact the head of the company, or the attorney general of FL. and start looking for a new job. These people sound very dangerous.
weed30 St. Louis
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
OMG, run run run away from these people. Things are bad now, and will only get worse. Do whatever you have to do to get out of this. There are HUGE RED FLAGS slapping you in the face, so DUCK AND RUN!
housenewbie
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I certainly hope you haven't actually let him use your credit cards?!? Because I woulnd't be holding my breath waiting for him to repay you. It sounds like he's some sort of con man. If he wants a dvd player from Amazon.com so badly, he can jolly well wait until he's living in the house--then he'll be able to 'get U.S. prices' no problem.

As far as running his errands, send him a link to a 'personal assistants-R-us' type of service and delete all these idiotic, demanding emails unread.
theroselvr
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I actually wonder if you had a different agent if offer #1 would still be there and you'd be closed by now. I mentioned it in your other post, I would not list with a friend & actually did not when we sold our house.

I don't understand what these people think they will sue anyone for. There seem to be a lot of real estate cases in the news, buyers trying to sue everyone unsuccessfully. If you do not want to sell them the house, don't. Why do you think you have to? Tell them you'd like to keep them "as friends" and don't think selling them a house they've never seen will be good for your friendship.

I'd continue to list and if it doesn't sell, let it go to foreclosure. You aren't making any money off of it that will help your mom out anyway. Let one of them buy it at sheriffs sale or something, let someone else deal with them.

As for your credit card & ordering stuff, I also hope you never gave them the actual number & if you did, I suggest getting a new card.

First, they have much private/privileged information (months ago - when I was only considering selling the home).

What kind of information do they have? Stuff you told them about the house?
funkill
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
What happened to my response from this morning??? Arrrr

Anyway... Since this is a guardianship case, I have been advised by my attorney to forward all offers (that are within the scope identified by the Judge in her Order to List) to the court. And, under my need to act in a fudiciary manner, it's also been advised for me to diligenty work to ensure it does not fall into foreclosure. Crap.

So, I counteroffered similar to what xansx suggested, full price, no contingencies, heafty escrow, short inspection and closing period. I hope they decline. My REA was able to add condition that all inspections will be complete prior to requesting court approval - in hopes of alleviating the cost to go to court first, only to find they back-out later.

Yes (tail between legs), they had my credit card numbers ... but, it was a corporate card - so I might have some leverage if he ever tries to use it again. Dumb him if he does - as I will report him to the company president. A 20+ yr senior engineer doing that wouldn't look good....

And yes again - he knows many particulars about the house from wayyyyy back - years ago when my mom was still there.
mariend
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You might "accidentally loose" your credit card, report it stolen, and get a new one. Glad the court is stepping it even though it is inconvenient to you. Protect yourself as much as you can--new phone #, PO box instead of physical address, watch your personal bank accounts etc.
Good luck and a nice cup of soothing tea.
graywings123
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Getting a little off topic, but are all house sales by guardians subject to the control of a guardian judge? Or is this a unique situation because of the foreclosure?
theroselvr
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yes (tail between legs), they had my credit card numbers ... but, it was a corporate card - so I might have some leverage if he ever tries to use it again. Dumb him if he does - as I will report him to the company president. A 20+ yr senior engineer doing that wouldn't look good....

Are you sure that you won't get into trouble for giving him the number if you rat him out?

he knows many particulars about the house from wayyyyy back - years ago when my mom was still there.

Then he knows what he's getting into. I would make sure you disclosed whatever he knows.

Hopefully this will blow over & he'll lose interest.

Getting a little off topic, but are all house sales by guardians subject to the control of a guardian judge? Or is this a unique situation because of the foreclosure?
The OP has another post here

BINGO! As guardian, I must act in a fiduciary manner = and my buying for what is owed (which is less than the actual worth) would not be considered acting in her best interest. Also, the Judge has to approve the sale (part of normal guardian requirments) and it would appear a "conflict of interest" for me to purchase it at ANY price.... Wish I would have known the ins-and-outs of the legal aspects of guardianship before I petitioned for it! A real nightmare. Which, if the Ward had been difficult, would have been a life-saver. But she's quite compliant these days....
disneyrsh
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I would not deal with these people *at all*.

Life is too short to let misery like that into your life, y'know?

I know you have a responsibility as a guardian, but I suspect these people will have a continuing malignant presence in your life unless you get rid of them now and with firm finality.

I mean, I can see it now, they're co-workers, right? Every time something happens in that condo they're going to be knocking on your cubicle b*tching up a storm or threatening to sue, ugh.

Ugh!
disneyrsh
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Just saw this part:

"already, this *international investor*/co-worker asks to use my private charge card for his internet purchases (to get US prices for stuff) and to go to Best Buy, Circuit City, etc to make other purchases for him."

The only working relationship you have with this guy is that he USES YOU! I mean, oh my god, he's using YOUR PERSONAL CREDIT CARD!

Seriously, honey, he's a scammer, he's luring you in and you just don't see it yet because that's how scammers are so successful-nobody realizes what's happening to them until it's too late!

You don't want the work "relationship" either, he's going to get you into big trouble, one way or another...
funkill
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
"Getting a little off topic, but are all house sales by guardians subject to the control of a guardian judge? Or is this a unique situation because of the foreclosure?"

Oh - actually, it's part of a Guardianship as set by our particular Judge. It is not related to foreclosure - but the Judge wanted to be quite involved in overseeing the sale. My attorney has insinuated she is unique in her involvement. The original "Order to List and Sale" would have allowed it to be (obviously) listed and sold within the constraints which was identified in the order (i.e. range of sale price). This particular Judge lined out the "and Sale" - thereby giving me authority to list the house, but not sell it. Now, a separate "Order to Sell" needs to be petitioned when a contract is received that meets the list price range.

I'm so frustrated by this situation - the house is being sold ASAP due to dwindling funds of the Ward. And, to petition the court for approal to "list and sell" has cost about $1000. By the Judge excluding the "to sell" stipulation, it costs an additional $500 for the additional petition/order. How is this fair? I am trying very hard not to have significant distrust and aversion to attorneys - but between this and some unfair dealing with divorce proceedings (of another family member), I am gaining suspicion of our legal system.

Oh - and I hope I wouldn't reap penalty from giving my card number to another employee --- especially it was suggested that I do that by HR for another's travel/lodging reservation! Ha.

Off topic --- how do you itallics or quote prior posts?
graywings123
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Off topic --- how do you itallics or quote prior posts?

1. You cut and paste the text in your response.
2. Then you type I in front of the text and /I at the end (the I being for italics, using a B would Bold it, and there are lots of others).
3. Then you put carets around the I and the /I.

So it goes: Caret I Reverse Caret TEXT Caret /I Reverse Caret.
terezosa / terriks
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Here's a couple of basic HTML instructions:

To create a clickable link:

H-E-L-P ... apprehension about buyer & non-refundable deposit

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H-E-L-P ... apprehension about buyer & non-refundable deposit

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