I don't like the cabinet between the oven and fridge, if it's counter and not full-ht. I think it's crowding your cooktop too much (stealing space around the stove and/or space between your cooking and coffee area), and will be too narrow for any real purpose except maybe collecting things. It will be a little cave. If it's full-ht, it's a little narrow, but I can see why you might want a spacer there because of planning a Fr door or side-by-side fridge.

I can't remember if you're having framed or frameless cabinets. Be sure you know what size interiors and what size openings you'll have on those narrower cabs.

I think the prep sink location is OK, considering you want to have 2 task areas, 1 on each side. But how big will the sink be? The one you show is 12", which is too small, IMO. You'll want to be sure you're leaving yourself decent work areas and not 2 smallish ones, defeating the purpose of your nice big island.

The best place for the prep sink is not in the middle of the island, i.e., to one side. The only problem with having it too near the clean-up sink is when you're using multiple prep stations and you get in each other's way. If you put the sink on that end of the island, but facing the stove, that would work. Then the problem/advantage is that it's a direct pivot behind the stove. Takes away the corner is a multifocal landing space, but gives a single step from stove to sink, which is good, and gives stagger space for a butt at the stove and a butt to the left of the prep sink. Sounds good to me. And if the faucet can be operated from the narrow side too, so that someone could prep there while alone, it's convenient for a solo cook. One thing I love about my new setup is that I can be prepping at the island sink, have all kinds of veg in different stages of cleaning in it, and it's only a step and a half to the other sink if I want to wash my hands, or my cutting board and knife. Which I seem to do regularly. I did the large single basin plus prep sink because I couldn't fit a 4' double bowl like I used to have. In this way, having the two sinks that close has been a real boon.

I'd put the ovens up right against the fridge rather than chopping up the counter space. Your aisles aren't so wide that you'll really need that tiny space for landing. It's too small anyway. And it's going to look really funny. And you'll want that space next to the stove. Really. If you have strength issues (arthritis or something), make a little room under the island, or in the vertical storage for a little folding cart or something. My fridge is 42" from the island nowhere near any other landing space and I find it very easy to take things in and out. I'm afraid that your narrow space is going to look like a mistake, besides cramping the other side by the stove.

Microwave: The problem with removing things from a microwave, no matter what you've used it for, is that the dish sometimes doesn't feel hot to the touch until you get a good grip on it because the mass heats in the middle as much or more than the outside, as opposed to in a radiant oven where the inside only gets hot after the outside. A sandwich on a plate, therefore, can be a bigger problem than a pot of chili. If you can use what looks like a desk for a YIKES! spot to drop a too hot dish, rather than making a dangerous mess on the floor, that would work...though desks usually have computers and/or clutter, so don't make good landing areas for most people. 7' with people seated in the way isn't a real landing area. That's across a room. I think the best solution, however, in your layout, would be to keep potholders out and easy to grab so that whoever is zapping a snack or a drink will just use one as a matter of course rather than trying to use unprotected fingers and dropping the dish halfway to the island.

I don't think there's any problem with the new DW location, since the cooking functions are all contained on the right side of the DW, and it's just cleanup to the left. If there's a trash conflict, or something like that, you can either wait, or use an interim device like a bowl or bag. On the dish drawers, it depends on how many dishes you have, just like on the spice drawers. For me, the big suck is utensil drawers. Being that I wanted to actually organize and see my utensils rather than just pack them in, tthey've exploded all over my kitchen. I found that I could compact the mixing bowls, and therefore the baking pans, to help the situation. Which I'm telling you because there are two ways to approach this. Either everything engineered and accounted for, a la Buehl, or else a space for everything, but final allotment when you see how everything works in your new space. In the latter version, you still have to measure your big and difficult things to make sure they'll fit.

I don't think there's ever a too big island until it impedes traffic. Since the MW is purposefully out of the kitchen area, what you have is the classic L with island, which is the new American go-to layout, replacing the galley. It's a very workable layout even when the amount of care you're giving it isn't used. I don't think 6" more or less is going to make or break it, but I do think that the size island you show keeps the walking spaces fairly clear, and that adding the 6" will crowd the mudroom entrance a little. Not specifically, but when people are sitting, when stools are pushed back, etc. The way it's drawn there's also a bit of diagonal access to the fridge. These are all slight things, but they improve the feeling of the flow, even if functionally they're not really necessary.

The real bugaboo for me is the location of the table. It's very squished against that wall. I get that it can be pulled out when you want to seat people back there, but it's all a bit ... squished. This may be the best you can come up with, but you basically have a dining space in what is essentially a wide passage. I'm not sure if there's really anything to be done about it. It might be the best solution given your tradeoffs, but it does bug me. I also see it as a big dumping area for anything that you chase off the island. I'd be instituting a rule that anything dumped on the table (or island) for more than an hour gets chucked down the basement stairs. (I.e., aversion training :) )

You've got good bones there. It's going to be lovely.

LOL, Plllog!! I have the same worry about the table. Honestly, the location of the table bugs me as well a little; and it has since the beginning, though I'm getting more used to it now. It does seem like it's placed in the wide walkway. But, given that the kids and DH reallllly wanted an island with space for seating, and I wanted a big workspace on my island--that was kind of the only spot left. Got any other ideas? I can still change it, right up till Thursday. :-)

We actually may not have any kitchen table there at all for awhile, because the old one is going into the trash and we need to shop for a new one. I actually have considered omitting the "official" table and getting a nice folding table to put up when we have company, one that can be covered with a pretty tablecloth.

Rhome, the sink will be bigger than 12 inches, that's just the size I could get on the software. And I will eliminate the 12 inch cab next to the stove/fridge; I agree that it's really too small to be of any use. This way I can have a bigger cab on the other side with real storage.

Thank you!!!!!
Cj

Better?
:-)
I removed the extra cabinet by the fridge, and I moved the garbage pullout to over next to the DW. I hesitated, and thought about moving it to the other side of the sink, but that might be too far away. I ALWAYS use a "thank you for coming bowl" ala Anne Burrell when I'm prepping, so I don't need a garbage can in the prep zone. But there would be a good use for one in the cleanup zone, and placing it next to the coffee area makes it good for grounds and espresso puck disposal as well.

Any other comments? I promise to post LOTS of pictures of the new kitchen when it's done. Thanks so much for all of your help, I have learned SOOO much from you guys, it's like Kitchen U here!

Here is a link that might be useful:

Just for grins....here are some pictures of my former kitchen. This may help you understand my obsession to build a muuuuch better space!! :-p Please, understand, too, that these were taken the night before tearout, when I was frantically putting things into bins and boxes! So it wasn't always that cluttered and messy. But a lot of the time, it came close.

The dishwasher in use. No work happening in this kitchen till it's done!!

Next up, my creative spice storage.

And a shot of the full monty. The cupboard space wasn't sufficient for plate storage, so hence the stainless racking system. This actually worked well when the kids were little! But now, they've grown tall, so no more worries about that.

Again, thanks for all the advice, friends. I can't wait to post pictures of the transformation.

Cj

You'll think you're in Heaven in the new kitchen compared to the old!! You'll also have some doubts about everything feeling so spread out at first...After all, you haven't had to take a step to reach anything in that last kitchen! But you'll get used to it... :-) Whenever (if ever) you 2nd guess any of your decisions, or think you could have done something better, just look at those old pics. I know you've had challenges, and a couple of disappointments with not having the ultimate fantasy kitchen in the space you have...but really, I'm so excited for you to have this new kitchen. It's become a great plan.

Oh, and I think it was a good call to keep the trash pullout nearer the cooking area. I think you'd be surprised at how many things you throw away in the process of cooking and baking...Much more than the veggie scraps that go in the bowl when you're prepping. And nice that the coffee things won't be dripped across the floor.

Oh! If they all want to sit at the island... But what happens if you all don't like it and want to sit at a table again?

An alternative might be something like a hunter's table. That's a full sized dining table that's hinged lengthwise so that one side folds over onto the other, creating a console. Some chairs can be tucked under, though that's not the most superior look, and a couple more can go against the wall. The chairs are the big problem ;)

Other than lopping off the end of the living room wall, however, I don't see a real solution. There's plenty of walking space where you show the table, and enough eating space if you move it into the walking space.

It's workable, just not ideal. Do you have a formal dining table elsewhere? If so, it's not such a big deal. You can get rid or or keep the kitchen table as you settle in and decide what works IRL.

What Rhome has said is very wise. (As usual.)

And I forgot to say that I think your update looks great.

i think you're gonna love the new kitchen!

the prep sink is good in your 2nd layout... will give the cook a place to prep if someone else is 'cleaning' up.

I wouldn't stretch the island out tho. the extra few inches will be more welcome in moving around space rather than island top. yours is already fairly wide. i'd feel differently if your island was only maybe 2.5' wide.

hurry! so we can see it done!

Desertsteph, I'll tell my builder you're in a hurry. :0)

The project isn't scheduled to be done until the end of June, though!

This thread has helped me a great deal. I'm in the process of designing my kitchen for a new home we will be building (hopefully) soon. the hangup has been my klitchen . I've had kitchens a tad tight, but functioned well, and I've had the huge kitchen with too great a distance to everything, including carrying a kettle of boiling water across the kitchen to dump in the sink.

I've been going around and around with wondering if the table should go in the center of the whole kitchen, (Julia Child style), or if I should I have a wonderful island, for baking and perhaps a small prep sink in it.

The pros to table centered in kitchen is small steps to serve and clean up. The cons are I give up having full view of our woods.

With the island the table can have full view of the woods at the end of the kitchen area, and I can have my wonderful baking island. The cons are it's a lot of steps to set the table in a kitchen that long. Twenty some feet seems long.

I'm thinking the view and the use of the island would be well worth it.

Sandy

Plllog, are those tables called "Hunter's Tables" or is there another name for it? I'm trying to find something like you described but am coming up empty...I have found nice looking wooden folding chairs, though. I wouldn't be totally adverse to not actually having a table up all the time, if it folded up into a nice looking console when not in use that might be nice. This is the only dining area in the house, BTW. If they don't like sitting at the island to eat, then tough. Be careful what you ask for... :0)

Thanks,
Cj

They're called hunter's tables, but not always in the blurbs because not everyone knows that. Do you have somewhere to store the nice wooden folding chairs?

LOL on the asking for it, but if it's the only dining area, you probably do really need a table.

Here's an example under "flip top". And another.

Or you could hang a small table on the wall. :) You could hang two or three of these on that long wall and take them down as needed when you have company. :)

I've also seen them called "gate-leg" tables.