I'd make sure DH understands that kitchen renos pay back a much higher percentage at resale than basement renovations. I think you'd better get your kitchen budget locked down so that you understand now where you'll need to cut back -- preferably not in the kitchen, because it'd be hella bad to have an amped up basement with an "afterthought" kitchen.

Sounds like he wants his toys too. I think if you do your research on remodeling resale value, your critcicsms of his overblown, over-budget basement man cave will sound less like envy and more like good financial sense.

BTW, what is a "man door"?

just a regular door, my god he has me talking contractor talk!!!

LOL!! uh, yeah, don't get me started. The $8K he thought was needed to spend on all the low voltage stuff for the house (speaker system, alarm, etc)...and then he actually thinks I went overboard with the kitchen! well, I did go over, but can admit to it. but I think we break even ;)

Oh my goodness, it sounds like you all have your hands full! Yes while a really well done basement is a hugh plus at resale, it won't have near the impact if the kitchen isn't equally as nice.

mgkinz, another arguement you could point out to help slow him down a bit is kitchens always have a suprise or two that you need to be financially prepared for.

Much as I truly appreciate your rant, after growing up the only girl in a family with FIVE brothers and having now been married reasonably successfully for over 30 years and raising four sons of my own, I can tell you that men tend to react much better to facts than they do to rants.

Believe me, I do plenty of ranting myself but only to my girlfriends, my sisters-in-law, and my daughters-in-law. NEVER where any of the men can overhear me.

You are right that you have to separate the dollars for the kitchen renovation from the dollars for the basement renovation and you have to stand your ground on getting the kitchen renovation you want and need without letting your DH siphon off money to (over) fix-up the basement instead. But you have to do it in a way that will get your DH on your side instead of opposed to you.

To do that, it is important that you NEVER speak of the kitchen as "my kitchen" or the basement as "his basement." Both areas of the house belong to you BOTH and he has to get fully invested in that fact. So, always speak of it as "our new kitchen" and "our new basement."

If you let him start thinking of it as "her kitchen" and "my basement," then, in his mind the whole thing has become a "her wishes against my wishes" thing. If he gives in to you, he feels he is letting himself be henpecked. If he doesn't then he feels (knows?) he is being a bully. Of course, being a man, it is really hard for him to admit to either feeling. All he knows is, he can't win either way and somehow it is all YOUR fault. Since he can't win either way, he may decide he might just as well have that basement all fixed up to retreat to. LOL!

So, before you got started, did you establish a budget for the kitchen renovation? Are you sticking to it? If so, you have a perfect ace in the hole to play. You mentioned that he had an "original budget" but that he is now $5K over that amount. Next time you start to discuss his plans/dreams for that basement space, say something like:

"Yes honey, it really would be great if we could afford to do X while renovating the basement. But, doing X will put us $Y over our budget for renovating that portion of the house. Is there some other part of the BASEMENT RENOVATION we could give up in order to do X down there instead? I know we both want to keep our cost for that project under control so we need to stick to our budget and we're already talking about going $5,000 over our original budget for the basement. Are you really comfortable going that much over our original budget? It really scares me. Can we afford to do that?"

If he suggests that you can cut something out of the kitchen renovation so as to have more money for the basement renovation, don't get mad - or at least don't let him see that you've gotten mad! Instead calmly say, "I see the kitchen renovation and the basement renovation as two separate projects and we have separate budgets for them. We're on budget on the kitchen renovation so that is not the issue here. The issue is OUR budget for OUR basement renovation. How can we stay within our budget for THAT project? I've got some ideas. Maybe you have some others. Let's talk about those ideas. Maybe there is a way to do this but we have to figure it out."

Of course, if you are over budget on the kitchen as well, then you will probably have to have the same talk about how to get the kitchen budget under control as well. Then you have to alter the above to "you're right honey, we're over-budget by $Z on the kitchen too so we need to tackle that problem as well. How about if we start by talking about how we can get the basement renovation budget under control and tomorrow we'll talk about how to get the kitchen renovation under control?" Then be prepared to DO IT.

If he thinks you care as much about getting the basement fixed up as he does, then he HAS to reciprocate by showing he cares just as much about getting the kitchen renovated properly as you do. This whole thing has to stop being a fight about which one of you gets what you want and instead become a shared quest to get the things you both want while staying within a budget you can afford.

Since he is wanting a kitchenette down there, perhaps you might propose that one way to get the budget for the basement under control might be to reuse the cabinetry and appliances that are coming out of your current kitchen to create the basement kitchenette? Trust me, not even a man can suggest that the stuff in your upstairs kitchen isn't good enough for the basement kitchenette if fixing up the basement is going to mean you can't replace the cabinetry and appliances upstairs! Plus, that means the basement renovation has to run behind the kitchen renovation and once dollars are spent on the kitchen renovation, he CAN'T cribbage them to buy stuff for the basement.

Other possible ways to save: Replace French doors with less expensive sliders... or you might be able to find used French doors at a Habitat for Humanity Re-Store for less than new ones would cost. Same thing with toilet, sink, and a shower stall for downstairs bath. And, I know you can get regular exterior doors and windows from the Re-Store. But don't dump every idea on him at once. Just suggest one idea that you think he would go for and give him time to think of other ideas. He'll be much more invested in money-saving ideas that HE thinks up first, so parcel your ideas out slowly just to prime the pump.

And finally, if you get any opportunity whatsoever to talk proudly in public about how brilliantly your husband is managing to renovate the basement area so INEXPENSIVELY; do it. He'll then bust a gut trying to think of other ways to save money down there.

BTW, while it is true that if you sell, you're much more likely to recoup anything spent on the kitchen renovation than on the basement; it sounds as if he basically wants to create a complete "apartment" in the basement. So don't be too surprised if you let it become about "her kitchen versus my basement" to hear him argue that if you ever needed additional income, it would be possible to rent out the basement apartment but that the kitchen is nothing more than a prettier place for you to cook. Men do think like that. LOL!

I so understand.
His Shop: started out at $10K, ended up at $16K.
New Home Theatre System: (Mine too, but as I'm not into testosterone TV I usually come hide out here, LOL). Started at $1K, just new TV - ended up at $4.5K.

When I decided to do my kitchen, feeling I deserved something (and I personally have the $$ for it) - he starts freaking out about the whole thing, saying it doesn't need reno, what about our retirement and all the other projects HE wants to do.
The kitchen hasn't been touched since 1976. Nuff said, get over it!

thanks to everyone for letting me rant, and for the advice.

cpate- Thanks so much for all of your advice, I too live in a house of men (not as many as you), but i have my husband and 2 sons...so I'm sure that your advice will be needed alot in my life. I have already though discovered that men do not respond to ranting, and if I must say so myself, have gotten pretty good at getting him to think that my ideas are his ideas...that is a very useful tool!

But we did make the mistake of making only one budget for the entire renovation, so the project $ has not been separated. And while you had some great ideas on how to save money, I'm afraid it is too late as most of his work has been done, and there are no cabinets in my existing kitchen as I have lived without ANY for 5 years, unless you count rubbermade containers! (but that is a whole other rant!) We do look at the project as our project and are trying to do what is best for our family as this is our forever house...or at least until we can't make it up the steps anymore...lol.

Thanks alot

Well, I can honestly say this is a problem my wife and I have never had. We have always been a team. The first thing I told her when we got married is, "this is an equal partnership, and you are entitled to 50% of the say." It actually took her a year or two to understand that I meant what I said. And rather than argue about things, I would prefer just cutting to the chase. Think about it. If you have a marriage that actually works, whenever you argue about something, you first "vent" for a while, then you eventually (sometimes after tears) sit down and say, "OK, what did we do wrong, and what can we do so we don't have this argument again." And if you actually follow through on any agreements made, you end up with a lot of harmony.

We have gone that one better. Rather than argue, we simply--and calmly--discuss any problem we may have, decide on a solution, and then implement it. It's been over thirty years now, and we've never had the same discussion twice, nor have we had more than a handful of arguments.

That said, though, I will point out that, in the very beginning, my wife wanted to "hint" whenever she wanted me to do something. The first time I noticed that I said, "Please don't hint. Just tell me what you want, and I'll do it." Men normally respond better to simple up front requests. Certainly, that's how we react with each other. What man would say, "Um, Louie, don't you think you would find your car more comfortable if you got it out of the sun?" when he really meant, "Louie, move your flippin' car out of the flippin' way!"

To get this back to the discussion at hand, we have a house that I have been remodeling for some 16 years. A lot of work and expense and so forth, but everything we have done on it has been a joint decision, which is how it should be. It may not work well for those who have been married a long time and are accustomed to the usual "how can I TRICK this guy into seeing it my way" method, but I would urge newlyweds to just be totally honest with each other from the get go. Works for us!

Here is a link that might be useful: Cabinet & Furniture Trends & Information

mgkniz, stand your ground. cpate and joseph both have great advice. My real tactic wasn't "Nuff said, get over it", I'm not that mean! I had to explain why I needed the changes, and what the benefits would be when he just couldn't see it. He finally admited since he doesn't so much as boil an egg that he didn't understand the need. And, I dare say I work in the kitchen a whole lot more than he works in his shop.
Maybe just draw up a spreadsheet to show him how much of the $ has gone to the basement, and he might come to feel differently, seeing it in black and white. If most of the $ has been spent, you'll have to wait a while longer. You need to get this on paper, and show him and ask him if it's possible to agree that going forward, the $ will go for the cabinets.

It's always best for the family to have kitchen organization. Meals are prepared faster and better that way! Going 5 years without any must have been hard!

Gosh, sounds like your husband wants a place he can escape.

Can't imagine why...

Boy oruboris that was rude! I didn't realize that I was coming off as so unreasonable.

oruboris, that comment came across very snarky. Is that how you meant it?

To mgkinz, in our last home we finished our walkout, daylight basement with better materials than we had used in the rest of the home. It was my dh's getaway place and definately a man-place. Men like finished basements. They all gravitated to it when we were entertaining. In the end, I was really glad that we created a high-end space that helped sell that home quickly, despite my builder grade kitchen.

Anyway, just wanted to give you a 'hang in there' after seeing oruboris' comment. A few calm conversations can get you two back on track communication-wise.

busybme- The reality is that I am happy about having the space downstairs, and especially the kitchenette which will be my temporary kitchen while the kitchen in under construction. I think that this post has turned into something other than my intention...I just wondered if others had experience and saw the humor in the fact that some husbands (mine included) think it is alright when it is something that makes sense to them, but do not understand when the lights that make the statement that you want in the kitchen happen to be a little over the lighting allowance. Just a little poke to how TKO some of us can become, and how sometimes our DHs don't understand.