I think the same as Jon1270 - that your island is what they call a 'barrier island' - smack in the middle of the room for no good reason. AND it's totally blocking your fridge. So if anyone is sitting there then it's going to be a total pain to get into it. Its going to be at total pain to get into it no matter what since you will be walking around that island multiple times a day.

Cost aside, I don't care for the layout. I feel the island is much too large for the space -- it blocks one whole wall from use with only cramped seating on the end as an upside.

To go from the sink to the fridge you have to walk around the island. I don't feel the working relationship between the sink and refrigerator is favorable at all. The microwave in the island isn't an issue -- because the island is not the major prep area. I don't see a prep sink or any secondary use-oriented areas.

Obviously, the KD wants to move forward with the project. If you've paid for the drawings then you have some of it worked out.

If you want to use QCC, which are some of the most expensive cabinets on the market, then I'd really look at a completely new plan and find another designer. For me, it's a case of cabinets gone wild here.

The main issue is seating 4 people vs having a kitchen that functions well for cooking. For $150,000 I'd certainly want a prep sink and some additional luxury amenities. I also don't love the vertical tile plan -- which is a very modern treatment -- oven a very traditional Lancanche. Especially not with QCC styling.

I feel this plan needs major work. More meat. Less whipped cream.

I honestly don't now how to say this tactfully, but my first reaction when seeing your drawings was "THAT is design this guy came up with?!" I suppose I already harbor a lot of ill will toward your KD for treating you badly through the process, so my opinion might be biased by that. But, seriously, I think any number of the 'amateur KDs' here could have come up with a more functional design without charging you a dime. As others have already pointed out, there are a number of significant flaws, and the microwave in the prep area is one of the least objectionable. I think you're better off starting from scratch than trying to salvage this plan. I feel so bad for you that, after all you've gone through, you don't have something better to work with than this. With your budget, there's no reason in the world you can't have the 'perfect' kitchen.

I think you got ripped off paying 1500.00 for this design. It really isn't very functional. The fridge is completely in the wrong place, there is no prep sink and the island really does look too large for the space. Start over, as this is
the most important part of the remodel. JMHO

Taliafeero, I mean this as humor and not to offend but I think you are having the opposite problem that I have experienced. I usually go out looking at kitchen cabinets in my workout clothes (clean but comfy)and do not get the same attention for people seeing $$$$ dollar signs when they see me. After reading some of your problems I wonder if you a wearing all your diamonds out to kitchen shop. Maybe you should try to look poor.

I personally would call another KD and see what they come up with. A fresh start would make me feel better if it was my kitchen. Good Luck. I wouldn't want to start a project with animosity between the KD and I because problems will arise later and the animosity just builds into something much more uncomfortable like a great big snowball.

That design very clearly says to me: EXPENSIVE CABINETS. It was drawn by someone trying to sell you the highest-dollar cabinetry package they possibly can, and who cares about a functional kitchen?

Yes - the cabinetry is beautiful. And if all you do in the kitchen is stand somewhere and gaze at the cabinets, then you might like this design. But as others have already pointed out, the design is totally non-functional. You have a great big barriar island blocking access to the fridge, and the counter space between your sink and range - the most natural prep space in any kitchen - is small and has no view.

Pretty cabinets - but a lousy design.
I'd go elsewhere. In sweats.

Is there any way you can get some graph paper and plot your kitchen(without cabs)? Include doorways, dimensions, windows. We could definately come up with a much more workable layout than what you have now. I know there was a mudroom also included in your quote, but to me it doesn't look like there are enough cabinets to warrant that price. However, I do recall there were quite a few upcharges on stain and custom features.

Anyway, I think a blank slate would be a good start. You can start here first and then I would definitely go elsewhere. I wouldn't even show someone else what he came up with. Let others look at your layout with fresh eyes.

Glad you came back for help. I was wondering what had transpired.

Maybe 4 alterations. No island but technically a peninsula that could be fatter. Ref moves up toward range, original closet behind space back to original? "Simple" cabinet insert beside ref that contains mw behind a liftup door with a pull out shelf underneath for landing or minor sandwich assembly, if desired. Construction of cabinets in anteroom becomes simpler and less deep for move clearance at door while carrying stuff. Use the south end wall for narrow, very dressy storage if you want some.

{{!gwi}}

I think you ought to start over. Instead of taking those drawings to another KD, take your room measurements and your list of wants, needs and can't stands. Get some fresh perspectives. Post the same here and see what you come up with. Then take the best of the best and work it to perfect it.

I'm also having a hard time reading the plans (I couldn't find the fridge -- didn't think it could possibly be that whatever behind the island). If that is the fridge behind the island, please, have absolutely no remorse or hesitation in running, not walking, away from these plans. That is a kitchen that is good for drinking black coffee at the island. You can have cream or milk if you can get to the fridge, but I'd pay money not to have to cook in it.

I don't know what your kitchen needs are -- you might have talked about them on the last thread, but I don't remember. The drawings you got would indicate more emphasis on the addition of frills and less on function. The heavy turned legs on the island, the inserts between each base cabinet, and the trim pieces on the ends of each upper are strictly eye candy. They take up what I consider to be precious room and cost more money, but those details may be important to you. Just make sure you know understand what is driving the pricing and what the details cost you -- in terms of use of space and dollars.

I do think that dressing to impress a KD can be a mistake if you care about your budget. I also dressed casually and comfortably when I was out shopping.

I would also understate your budget. I think you said $120,000 before with $150,000 being the limit for overages, changes and other unexpected costs. I'd consider going in and seeing what a stated budget of $100,000 give or take 20% would get you. If you really want to keep it to $120,000, go in looking at $80-100,000. If you're okay with $150,000 for the final figure, I'd go in talking about $100-120,000. If you go in stating that you already realize that you may have to go to $150,000, that figure will become the limit in most people's minds and you'll have no room for contingencies.

It may be hard for you to think that way now that you've had $180,000 in mind for months, but it's all real money. I promise you that you can get a wonderful kitchen and spend less than $150,000. You can do it under $120,000 --even under $100,000. But it may be hard to push the mental numbers back down if the shock has worn off and you are thinking of spending more. Again, time for some fresh perspectives -- and don't mention your $150,000 much less the KD's $180,000. Save some money and take a well-deserved vacation and/or throw a party when your new kitchen is done.

way to go bmore -- so much better.

I'd want putting down room to right of refrigerator -- room for a prep sink there as well? Relocate the micro in one of the two corners on the range wall?

With showy storage does she need a coffee station? Under counter fridge or beverage or wine refrigerator? What about bar there? Secondary anything? TV/media?

This is 1000 times better as a functional plan.

While having conversations with 2 kids and doing other things, I managed to ramble on -- Sweeby gave you the bullet points very effectively. LOL

Bmore is one of half a dozen or so who are great with working on layouts. If you can give us the the dimensions and limitations of the space, I know those great minds will come together and help you do much better.

yes to what has already been said above. the design is simply not functional ...and much too cramped. i'm sorry you've already been drained of money by this so called "designer". how large is the space? i have a large budget for my kitchen. it's a large space (25'x18') in a new build, affluent area. i'd LOVE to know how much of that fee is based on cabinetry. i have a rough design which i drew myself and shopped it around. i have found a local custom cabinet maker in my area with an outstanding portfolio and references which i have checked. the price for my cabinetry (including a mantle hood for 60" range, panels for two dishwashers, full fridge and full freezer, desk area, wet bar, baking center armoire cabinet, 7'x4' island, china cabs w/glass doors, etc...) is at $72K. the kitchen is a U shape so will be three full walls of cabs, plus an add'l 12' on the opposite wall for the bar, baking center & desk. the price includes all the bells and whistles: blumotion, full extension drawers/pullouts and many recessed doors.
frankly i'm not shocked at all by the over estimate. people will charge whatever they think they can get away with and if the budget is big they think they could get away with a whole lot more. you really need to do some homework and legwork. i run around all day researching siding, stone, tile, flooring, trim... the list goes on and on. we know what everything SHOULD cost or at least have a very close idea. shop the cabs, appliances and stone yourself. i don't know where you are, but in my area people are much more willing to do better on price and service as well. my stone fabricator is bending over backwards for us and supplying granite for our laundry as well as providing remnants of our choice for secondary baths, free of charge. we just pay the install. again, sorry you've had such a bad experience so far. my own search for a KD came up with zero contenders. i finally gave up and i think that was the best choice i've made so far.

Thanks you for your kind words, and in sympathy to the plan confusion, I couldn't determine the dining room door!

Kate, she said the original was 80K, and the revised was 66K- but that's still $41,000 over the budget!!

i'm not shocked at all by the over estimate. people will charge whatever they think they can get away with and if the budget is big they think they could get away with a whole lot more

Kateskouros, how true, how true. I would dump this design and start over.

I hate how I feel "walking" through the door with that wall right there on the right and full length cabinets to the left and a small doorway to enter into the kitchen.

I can promise you that the livability of your layout with the counter and uppers, as katskouros suggested, will benefit the functionality of the kitchen. As it is now, you will be bumping your fannies up against doors, counters, and walls. I would also either decrease the depth of that wall by the door and end run of cabinets. If you need the wall there, I would not have it any deeper than the base cabinets.

Please re-consider your island or peninsular counter heights. It appears you have tiered counters planned. Your kitchen is not that large nor your counter that deep. I would NOT chop up the counter space with tiered levels. You need room to spread out with baking 'stuffs' and you are not giving yourself the benefits that an island can offer when chop up the depth.

IMHO,as a professional, spaciousness is a huge commodity. Your room will appear and feel more luxurious and larger if you have an island counter that is one heighth. Keep the eye moving in a room so it can span a space. This is luxry. The more an eye can travel in a space, the more value your home can command. Cramped quarters and choppy walled rooms are not a big sellers. Tiered counters look better in larger kitchens or when the counter space is actually on the perimeter of the kitchen separating rooms, in my opinion.

I thought that everyone was aghast at the first cabinet budget because it was too much for what was offered, not that to lower it he should subtract cabinets. I may be WAY out of the scope of reality on cabinet prices, because I really expected one of those acre-sized kitchens with countless cabinet boxes for $66K. I really am not meaning to offend, but I'm in shock.

Before we get too riled at the designer, do we know what list of wants/'necessities' was given to him? If he was told it had to have an island with seating, a built-in fridge, etc., in this limited space, he may have had few choices. In other threads we've all gotten angry at the designer, only to find out it was the owner who, against advice, insisted they 'need' a certain feature.

I think this all just does need a 'restart' with a blank slate and some more specifics from taliaferro.

I can promise you that the livability of your layout with the counter and uppers, as katskouros suggested, will benefit the functionality of the kitchen.

I meant to say as bmorepanic suggested .

I agree with everything above (and learned something from everyone's perspectives on this too). I am supremely shocked to see the refrigerators no where near the prep area or the range. Is that right? Crazy. And right behind the seating area of the island is just another nutty concept. I would definitely scratch the design, and shop for another KD. I don't think any of your necessities are out of line or outside of a reasonable kitchen design that should meet your budget. Something is out of whack with your KD if they can't give you everything you've asked for in a well thought out design and within your budget.

I did not follow your initial thread, but my first impression is that you are lucky to have only invested $1500 with this KD instead of God knows how much with the plan she drew up.

Write it off as tuition in the school of life and start over.

Oh, dear. I'm not the kind to swear. I even get teased about it. But when I saw this plan I said, "What the F#$%! How did he get $180,000 out of that!" There doesn't seem to be more than $30K in the appliances. Can you remind us how much structural work you're planning?

I know others have said it, but there's no flow, no sense, and to my own eyes, no storage!! It's all aisle, and those are too narrow. Is that a 24" wide door from the mudroom? Whatever it is, it looks tight.

Using the fridge and DW for a scale, I read your room as approximately 14' x 22.75', wall to wall, not including the bump out where the fridge is pictured. That's a good sized room. There's no reason to have a cramped, uncomfortable kitchen in a good sized room!

Besides taking some of the good advice above, I would also be open minded on what cabinet line you are looking at. You could do a fabulous kitchen, with all the bells and whistles if you perhaps look at other cabinet manufacturers / local custom manufacturers. If i were you, I would start over with a few different KDs, go in explain what you want - and don't give a budget - and let them come up with something then work from there. I bet you would be pleasantly surprised pricewise and designwise

There are 2 things in your situation that reminded me of things we went through.

1. We hired an architect to help us plan our house renovations. I was terribly disappointed by our experience. The architect didn't listen to any of my ideas or the reasoning why I wanted things done in a certain way (in a less conventional way.) After spending $3000 on him, we cut our losses and dropped him and did our own planning. To make matters worse, his measurements and drawings of the existing space were wrong rendering them fairly useless for our planning.

2. I coveted the idea of an island. The architect drew one in the plans. Our kitchen is 16' x 13' and my sisters convinced me that the space would be much more functional with a peninsula instead. I put up a good fight ("yeah, but....") I'm so glad their good advice won out in the end. The peninsula gives more counter space, chops up the space less, gives more moving around space and separates my cooking area from the general through-the-kitchen traffic.

I ended up working with a kd from our cabinet company. It was a totally opposite experience from the one with the architect. She took in everything I had to say. She took my ideas as a starting point and enhanced them or pointed out flaws in my reasoning. I had non-traditional ideas about the placement of the fridge (not in the prep zone) and dw (next to the prep sink.) When she understood my reasons for wanting these placements she put them into the plans. There was a lot of back and forth with emails before the final design was realized. After living in the "almost done" kitchen for 2 1/2 years, I'm glad we took the time to get it right in the planning stages.

Is this a new build or renovation? If the space exists, you can try putting a table where the island would be, designate where the appliances/sink will be and simulate working in the kitchen. Does the flow work for you?

Your kd may be a fine designer but might not be a good fit for you. It's really important to have confidence in the person you are working with. The $1500 is a lot of money and it will hurt to lose it but it's small in the larger scheme of your kitchen costs. I like your idea of starting from scratch because it seems that you aren't happy with your situation.

So. I annotated and scanned the KD's drawings - I hope the numbers are clearer. I've also plotted out my existing kitchen on graph paper. I would gratefully welcome any input from any armchair or actual kitchen designers out there.

Just to clarify a few things. Sherrilyn, my KD's plan did not have tiered counters- it's all one height.

What did I ask my KD to incorporate into the drawings? I wanted as large a window as the space would allow to let in more light. I also did not want a peninsula (cuz that's what I have now and I hate it).

Here are some of the details to give you some context:

SIZE: 23' x 14' kitchen space, plus an 11' x 6.5' mudroom

CABS: Quality Custom Cabinetry - Custom Made Handcrafted Kitchen & Bathroom Cabinets

* perimeter cabs and 10'x4' island;
* custom legs on island
* custom stain on premium grade maple; island apron will be painted and island cabs will have a darker stain than the perimeter cabs
* wenge wood on mudroom bench

COUNTERS & BACKSPLASH- honed Calcutta Gold Marble Slab

RANGE BACKSPLASH- Mosaic glass tile by Oceanside Glass

FLOOR- Limestone

REFRIGERATOR - Sub-Zero 695 Side-By-Side Refrigerator/Freezer 48"

RANGE - CornuFé 110 - CornuFé in stainless steel with brass & brushed stainless steel trim

HOOD - Best by Broan with masonry plaster finish

DISHWASHER - Miele

MICROWAVE - ?

PLUMBING -
* Sink- Franke Pro 16 gauge stainless single bowl undermount 30x18x12
* Faucet - Dornbracht Tara Classic
* Everpure instant hot water & icy cold filtered water
* Soap dispenser, Air switch, tapmaster, garbage disposal

LIGHTING - recessed 5" halogen ceiling throughout, undercab pucks, plugmold (I already purchased hanging ceiling fixture for over island)

CONSTRUCTION/STRUCTURAL:

· expand existing window opening for 48" x 56" window (Marvin Window)

· tear out kitchen pantry, desk area, & closet (involves partition walls, none are weight bearing)

THE KITCHEN DESIGNER'S DRAWINGS:

{{!gwi}}

EXISTING KITCHEN:

{{!gwi}}

THANKS FOR HELPING ME!!!:)

It would help to know what you hate about your peninsula, as well as your current layout.

First question: Is the pony wall functional? I.e., is it structural or in some other way doing more than serving as a division? If not, do you love it? Hate it? Want a solid wall? Want no wall?

Definitely - why do you hate your peninsula?
It seems to function so well in your plan?

I can see why you could love the look of the KDs plan. Would it work to narrow the island (maybe to 42") to give you slightly better aisles, and put the fridge next to the dish hutch? Not perfect, but at least it's not on the opposite side of the island from the sink. Then the former fridge spot could become pantry storage that you might not mind working around island sitters to get to.

I see now that where I just suggested the fridge go is a half-ht wall. Is it already that height?

What do you all think of modifying the island as follows?
{{!gwi}}

**AND** perhaps make it narrower, from 4'2" to perhaps 3'6" -- an additional 8" making that aisle 59" wide?

In response to some of the questions you posed:

* The peninsula:
I dislike the current peninsula because I feel locked in. While working in the kitchen, I often have to run into the neighboring family room to fetch this or fix that or generally keep my ill-behaved and helpless children from killing each other. The peninsula keeps me from supervising my children in the family room because it blocks me visually and physically.

*The pony wall. I don't want to change the pony wall because I need that wall for furniture. The family room is filled with windows and french doors. I need that wall space. I wouldn't want to make that wall a full wall either because that would close in the family room.

The other problem I have with my current layout is the refrigerator is against a wall and I can't open the door more than 90% - such a pain! I don't suppose we could get a 48" inch refrigerator and a 43" range on the same wall, can we?

Like others, I think that if you could lose the pony wall, you'd have the opportunity for a much better design. Your fridge along that wall would make a lot more sense. Alternatively, leave everything where it is now except swing your peninsula around to be an island.

Your room dimensions are almost exactly the same as mine. My space is slightly larger (14'9"x 24'10"), but I don't have the recessed area where the KD put your fridge. My island is 7.5' by 3.5' and it couldn't be much, if any, bigger. In fact, I ended up with backless stools because the aisle could not comfortably accommodate stools with backs and still allow for comfortable passage behind. Without the pony wall, your layout could be the same as mine, as well--or you could switch the range and fridge. I find it extremely functional. Here's my layout...

I think there's something wonky about where you've marked the fridge in your last drawing. As I read the plans, there's a shallow cupboard in the zigzag next to the coat closet, then the fridge, then another cupboard. Assuming the mudroom will be as shown, the change you've made to the island doesn't really help the fridge door thing. And the cupboard doors are almost as important.

It seems to me that what you've identified as most important is seeing into the FR over the pony wall while you're working. If that's the case then the fridge side of your island would be a good place to put a prep area. Most of cooking is prep after all. I've done a picture below with big stools (20"x24") but as narrow an island as practical--24" cabinets with an 18" overhang. 9' long. Just so you can see. I've also added back some cabinets.

This also leaves a straight path between the fridge and the range, and gives you an efficient (if large) work triangle/quadrangle with the prep sink and clean up sink. That's fridge to prep to range to clean up, with flow back to the fridge. That way you can have your clean-up sink under your big window, and not move the range or anything.

One thing I'd do, no matter what else, is put a whole wall of shallow cupboards, floor to ceiling, on the study wall, and maybe even panel the study door to match :) You'd be amazed what a 10" or 12" deep cupboard can hold. And if you have them custom made, you can have the shelves attached directly to the wall, if you want, rather than making boxes. That gives you the opportunity to have the shelves open across, therefore holding more, and gives you the extra depth of not having the box back.

Now you're talkin', Plllog! That puts the seating/eating part of the island near the dishes and the cleanup sink, too. And now the island can scoot/stretch closer to the stove, because it's now useful as a prep spot for the stove at that end, as well as salads, etc. on the other....You don't want to carry prepped items too far across a wide aisle to the stove.

But now you have a prep sink that is further from the range than the main sink. I don't think it will get used much if that's the case. As far as the island's size, we have to walk around our island to get from the main sink to the fridge, but we have a prep sink on the island in between, so maybe that makes it work well. I do think that if you had the prep side of the island near the fridge, it would be helpful, but in this case, it's so far from the cooktop! I agree that you should take the dimensions to another designer, and see what they can do.
Even if you leave everything else as is, I think it's tight between the seating and the fridge. If you made the island narrower and the aisle wider where the fridge is, as you mentioned, it would help. We have a 58" aisle between fridge and island seating (from counter edge to counter edge, which means about 60" from cabinets), and it works great. People can walk past without a problem.
I do understand the need for wall space in the family room, and I wouldn't want to lose the only wall space available either.
Is the island seating the only seating you have, or is there a nearby table and chairs? If you have nearby seating, maybe you could manage just two seats on one end of the island? I'm finding that we don't use our island seating nearly as much as we thought we would (I know that might not be the norm). It seems that if there is a nearby table and chairs, people are more comfortable in a chair.
Another idea would be to get a 27" Subzero fridge (all fridge) and put it in the space to the left of the main sink. (I can't tell from the drawings what you have there right now...I see glass doors, but don't know what's under that.) Put a 27" freezer on the wall where you originally planned to have the fridge. That way the fridge would be easily accessible to your prep area, and to the sink. You don't need access to the freezer as often.

Taliaferro - I'm wondering why you haven't gotten the input of several KD's for your project, instead of trying to force a design to work that you so obviously find problematic? Finding the right design for our space took time (more than I ever expected!). I took measurements, my short wish list, and some photos of the aesthetic we were looking for to six KD's. Each took the measurements and gave us an estimate. I didn't expect detailed drawings (wasn't looking to waste anyone's time), but got enough from each of them at the onset to see 6 perspectives on our space. A couple were pedestrian, a couple were so pricey that we got a good laugh (one of these was a Quality Cabinet dealer), and two were smart designs that answered all of our needs in the space. I encourage you to take your measurements and start shopping for the KD that will create a unique space for you with a plan that works for you on every level (budget + design).

How about taking plllogs rendering a little further and put the stove where the fridge is and have the fridge moved in some from its current location. Then you'd have the prep space in a good spot, the prep sink would be used. You have it easy to see into the family room. The only drawback I see with this is the walking through that space and into the house from the mudroom.

BTW since you mentioned you wanted a large window. It looks to me like you have the space for a larger than 48" window. Maybe do two 30" windows and stretch it further towards the garage wall.

The problem with pllog's sketch is traffic - and it's in the cabinet guy's design as well. Both sides of the island become hallways. If the garage entrance is the main family way into/out of the house, people and "junkque" will flow to and around the island.

The prep sink issue doesn't matter really - if you fill/drain pots into the main sink - who cares? Prep sink is to make it more convenient to prep where you want, not constrain all cooking activities to that one sink.

Is the pony wall new to this renovation? Where do people go to-ing and fro-ing in your house now? How do you think the island will help being cut-off and having to run around it?

I didn't expect detailed drawings (wasn't looking to waste anyone's time), but got enough from each of them at the onset to see 6 perspectives on our space. A couple were pedestrian, a couple were so pricey that we got a good laugh (one of these was a Quality Cabinet dealer)...

beachmusic is right! It reminded me when I shopped around to three well known glass companies for custom doors four four of our showers. Comparing apple to apple here: Two guys gave me quotes within $500 of each other. The third guy, the one that is always on TV and in ALL of the high end homes, had a written quote of 2 and a 1/2 times of the other two guys. We laughed until we cried.

I just wish I had done the same for my kitchen cabinets. I just went with the same guy that my sister used and was 'done with it'. Why? Because my design was already completed and I thought all that needed to be done was choose the cabinets, order, and install. End of decisions.

Bah-humbug!

I like Holligator's idea- may I add a suggestion that would enable you to supervise in the next room.

SIL has a beautifully framed cutout above a 48" range- and a huge, powerful hood above housed in a carved mantlepiece.

She has very young children and is able to see through into the den to supervise.

The cutout area is large enough that she has sight from most of the kitchen, with the exception of her main sink.

She started the opening several inches above the back of the range to keep splatters at bay. The hood is oversized to increase capture area and is very deep. She does some frying and has not had a problem with grease.

I thought her idea was odd and unworkable until I saw the finished product. It is pleasant, open and cheerful.

One of the best perks of the arrangement is being able to see more of the den from the kitchen, than the kitchen from the den. The opening is high enough that only the 'pretty part' of the kitchen, and not the mess, is visible.

Could you move the mudroom door down and make a mini U layout up by the range? Leave the sink where it is, slide the range to the left a little then put the fridge on the right facing the sink. Then where the fridge is now, put pantry cabinets or a snack area.

Hi, Taliaferro. Here's what I would do:

Mirror the shape of the new window with the pony wall (rather than using the column, have a window-sized cutout). Put a prep sink in front of the real window and your clean-up sink in front of the opening. Keep the dw on the right side of the clean-up sink. Have a 24" bank of drawers to the left of the clean-up sink to hold all silverware/tablesetting stuff. Have a bigger wall cabinet in between the two sinks, maybe one with a dishdrainer, or one that comes down to the counter.

You see the red square in your last island drawing? I think I would use an island that size, maybe a butcher block with legs, and give up the island seating. I like the square shape of it for your space. That way, even though the fridge is across the room, there is a more direct path to the sinks. I would use a regular kitchen table further down in the plan, maybe even a round one because of the traffic through the space. I see what the kd was trying to do. I think with a few tweaks you can get that look and a little more practicality.

Hopefully this explains the mini U better,

I see this layout having two main prep areas, corner between sink and range for range items and the island for other prep and bigger projects. The round eating part of the island can be raised or lowered to give a little separation from the working part of the kitchen to the eating part. You could also emphasize the separation with an archway and columns.

Where is the garage in relation to the kitchen and dining room? The location of the mudroom (which would be ideal ofr a butler's pantry) is what is driving most of the traffic concerns -- and the relation of the kitchen to the family room means the cook will not be able to keep an eye on active kids in that space while working. I'm wondering if there might be a possibility of flipping your use of some of the space and/or changing the opening to the family room.

Thank you so much for your ideas and suggestions, especially to those of you who sketched out your thoughts which helped me to better visualize what you were proposing. I've come to realize that my space is really difficult to work with and that whatever design I choose will involve some unfortunate compromises.

Because of other factors that only I would be uniquely aware of, some of the proposed ideas for alternative placement of the refrigerator are not feasible, and therefore the location of the refrigerator in the recessed area on the east side of the kitchen is really the only place it can go. However, I can move the the fridge further north, and relocate the seating to the southern end of the island which will also create landing space on the island. I might also shrink the width of the island, thereby creating a 6 ft. wide passageway. I asked my KD to make the modifications to the island and I'm hoping the change will make the space more functional.

Thanks again for the help!!

Are you still working with the original KD or is this someone eles?

Tali

congrats on your embarking on a Kit remodel - I don't have much more to add other than - continue to work at the design until you have really optimized your space & have it laid out irl (boxes work, blue painters tape) Once laid out I would do a family mock up -kids coming in door, seating at island, prep for dinner, putting away a large order of groceries - load DW, put away dishes etc... Paper is one dimensional and can trick the eye

You mentioned "whatever design I choose will involve some unfortunate compromises" True, true, true - ask anyone here that has completed a remodel - 100% of us had compromise in design - it's a sign of poor design when the compromise occurs during the installation - take your time on this phase

good luck

Sounds to me like its the original KD.

I don't want to throw stones or "flame", but there's been an awful lot of advice given here to start over with someone else.

If you can't move the fridge location, I think sliding the fridge north and seating south would be good. And if you put a little sink in the island near the fridge your island could be become more of a prep space. Keeping most running from fridge to water source to a minimum. If you do that I don't think you would have to shrink your island much if at all.

I think the plan holligator did has some good options. If you did like somebody suggested and put openings on each side of the stove you'd also have a view into the family room when cooking. This plan keeps traffic out of the cooking zone and all your prep and cooking happens within view of the family room. In your first plan you are stuck on the other end of the island for doing any prep and cooking with the fridge and stove where you have them so not sure how much supervising you can actually do, in that area.

One other option to keep prepping and fridge out of the garage walkway would be to put the stove in the corner. As wide as it is you probably would have to move the island down a bit to have aisle space. Then move the sink down closer to the opening, and keep the fridge on its current wall, but move it away from the sidewall. Ues you loose the sink right under the window, but I think you'd love that spot for prepping/cooking and looking out the window, and at least in my kitchen I spend more time prepping and cooking than I do at the sink.

I'm not seeing why the Fridge has to be on that wall as it currently is on the other wall. Seems to me it should be able to go to both.

Here is a link to Sharb's kitchen who has a corner stove, to give you an idea what it could look like.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sharb's kitchen

Ok, this has got to stop hehe, I had a dream of your kitchen layout last night and there is something wrong with that. Anyway, you had a big beautiful fireplace on the far back wall slightly off center to the left, to the right of that was a range top with cabinet drawers underneath and a range hood that looked like cabinets. The refrigerator was in that crazy recessed area, the sink was in the island /peninsula closest to range and frig. Your island had some type of natural stone at sink area but butted up to the rest being wood. You also had some type of architectural beams or something on the ceiling. Maybe some kind person here could draw it up....I only dream it.