Kim,

I'll leave the paint questions to the experts, but I urge you to talk to the title company about the disbursement of the payment. There are rules for construction loans, and at each stage, there are inspections to be made. That money never should have been paid out if the work wasn't completed. Who signed off on it? The title company may be on the hook for this. The bank takes their cues for disbursement from the title company (at least where I used to build they did).

you should NOT be in this position. When the GC (are you the GC?) wants the next draw, they take the contractor's proof of payment to remove those liens to the title company. But each stage of the job must be inspected prior to disbursement. If someone paid him by mistake, then that isn't your problem.

I hope you get some good answers re your paint!! I'm so sorry this happened to you, but everything will work out alright. Sigh.

Oh my gosh. What a horror. I have nothing useful to say, except that i'm very sorry you're in such a situation.

I'm sure the folks here will continue to steer you in the right direction, as decorpas has ...

Good luck to you!

This is terrible! I have been whining about a few small issues with our new build, but this really seems so much more major. Maybe you need to call an attorney - to me, the painters are ripping you off!

decorpas--
I am not sure that anyone is as responsible as we are. Unfortunately he kept saying he was this much done and we just thought " yeah thats about right". The bummer of this is the GC is absentee. He has not signed a contract, (he doesn't do that), hired a sub except for framing and siding, done any quality control or supervision.
I am not sure if you have read any of my other posts on my nightmare build but it has been awful.

Our GC has just filed a lien for the remaining fee we owe him. This fee is due at end of build which is suppose to be August. He also signed a agreement with bank he wouldn't collect until end of build. How can this be?
He heard we were talking to attorney. He now won't take off his lien unless we sign new contract holding him harmless.
I say this is nothing short of extortion.
He holds the hammer as with a construction loan we are considered to be in default if we get a lien. He also put this lien on because bank stopped paying on draws 2 months ago as we complained so many times that he was misdirecting funds that they took over control. 2 of his accounts (tiny) are not pd as bank wanted to investigate. So the bank does have some fault. Now bank says we must work it out so they don't foreclose.

I do claim lack of experience in building for this mess we are in. But, at what point do professionals have to take some of the blame as the bank heard from us at month one that the right things were not being paid, that he was never there, materials were being stolen to go to other jobs, and chose to ignore as they just wanted project to move forward.

Its all so unbelievable, I wish someone had the magic cure for this to all go away. It has been 3 years of heartache, the painter is just one more on the list. Thanks for listening to my sob story.

Oh, my gosh...I had no idea! I am so sorry. Listen, I don't know what I can do, but this sounds like a real mess. I'm no lawyer, and you've alread spoken with one, but this just sounds weird to me. What exactly does your lawyer say? What does the title company say? Why was the money released to the painter?

did you original contract with GC give him ownership of the land until final payment was made? That is the biggee in these contracts, because if he has that, then he has a lot of power. Basically it's a quit claim deed if you bought the property and then hired him as GC. If he is developer as well, then he owned the property to begin with and this could have been handled in a few different ways.

So, let's start at the beginning here-- how did you hire him and did you own the land? did you quit claim deed the property to him in your original contract?

Oh, I just re-read. He doesn't sign contracts. How charming.
So, it's your property?

liens are basically big threats, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned, but anyone can file a lien. They don't have to prove any money is owed them. And when it comes down to it, the title company has rules for this stuff.

Oh, dear-- this reply is all over the place and I've got to run right now, but please let me know how you're doing and if I can help. From what you've said so far, it just doesn't sound right and I'm wondering who's in charge at that bank and your title company. At the very least, figure out who owns the land your house is on right now. Not all lawyers are familiar with construction liens, either, so this could be playing a part in the advice you're getting. Liens enforce a contract, and yet you have no contract with this guy, so how can he enforce a lien? Most states have laws that a N of C (Notice of Commencement) must have been filed in order to perfect a lien. Did he file that? That would have been when he started the job.

Once you get a C of O and move in, there is very little he can do other than sue you, which I am sure he doesn't want to do.

Is he a member of the NAHB? Because if he is, you can talk to them about performing an arbitration, which would be judged by his peers, and if he handled things like you say he has, this wouldn't go very well for him.

I am just so sorry to hear this!

P.S.I hope you are documenting the work that is not being supervised. Does he have insurance and is he bonded? this guys sounds unprofessional, but it is not unlike banks and title companies to cater to the builder. Unless you know better...

Not sure I explained this well, so here goes: the title company ensures the title is free and clear, so they get the discharge of lien notices when a sub is paid. typically, before a draw, the GC submits all of the subs paid to date and their sign off of rights to file a lien.

the bank is dealing with the title company. The builder should be dealing with the title company as well. No one should be telling the bank verbally what was paid and when they will "accept" payment. There are rules for all of these things.

You need to speak with a real estate attorney if you haven't already. And you need to talk with the owner of the title company. Something is not right. I'd leave the bank out of it as much as I could, since banks are squirrely right now for other reasons and you don't want to get on their radar any more than you already are.

I would, however, look at the original paperwork from the bank, where many things are spelled out. a contract with the builder is usually attached to these papers. Banks don't usually allow some yahoo to be GC- I mean, they are supposed to vet the builder as well.

Good luck and let me know what is going on!

Please tell me you have contacted a lawyer. If not, get one RIGHT AWAY!

Whhhhaaatttttttttt? He underbid the job? He's a painter by trade. Surely this isn't the first house he has done. Time for an attorney.
You don't want him to finish. He's a crook. You want him to pony up so you can get someone who will or show up in court.
What a jerk he is.

I don't think you're in my state (CA), but here homeowners can post a bond in the amount of the lien + 50% to keep the various lenders, title insurers, etc. from frowning on the lien. I routinely advise my clients to do this when aggressive contractors file dubious liens. It does take a fair amount of cash on hand and thus not always possible.

The painting contract is also potentially an attorney matter. And the GC...oral contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and all those other cliches.

I've seen your posts on the kitchen forum from time to time. I gather there's quite a saga (understatement of the year, huh?) and I hope you have, at least, an attorney friend who can steer you in the right direction.

Good luck.

I read one of your other threads and caught myself up a bit. The banks can't tell you who to go with, but it is typical for banks to have 3 builders they recommend. 3, not 1. these builders are usually already approved for construction loans with that bank, which is a process separate from your approval.

Your builder is notorious for not paying subs or suppliers. Okay, so that's why you told the bank not to keep giving him money. I hope what you mean is that they aren't to give money out until they get a release of the N of C, a write off the lien rights, basically. The bank can pay those subs directly, but see, what's missing here is this:

normally, you give your deposit to the builder and he pays the subs and suppliers. Often, he is actually paying ahead of the actual draw, so he can get them to sign off. that's one way he works for his money. Why you gave him a deposit. A normal homeowner doesn't have 50-80k floating around to support the time in between the draws and the payments. that's why he is supposed to be acting as GC. And he has arrangements with subs and suppliers.

but, liens are to help you as the homeowner as much as him. If he doesn't pay his subs, they file a lien. Now he isn't supposed to get his draw money.

So what's going wrong in your scenario? Sounds like the bank is giving money to people who haven't signed off.

The title company has a responsibility here, and as long as you don't go around talking about your lawyer to these guys (they will all run away from you if you do that-- this is a business all too familiar with court system and it never goes anywhere pretty), someone at that office doesn't like your builder and knows all about his tricks. so get on down there and talk to someone! often, very smart and very kind women work at title companies...and they don't like to see homeowners taken advantage of.

I wish you all the best. Ask good questions of these people, learn about your rights, and try to get someone there to look at what has gone on so far. Emphasize that you just want it to be done correctly from now on. The lawyer is there to educate you, but builders can be pretty powerful enemies, so I'd go about this very carefully. Nicely, calmly, but resolutely. You want to diffuse the situation, not throw gas on it;-) and he sounds like an explosion waiting to happen...He may also be going broke (I'm not kidding- many builders are having troubles these days and you don't want to be caught in the middle of a bankruptcy filing on his part), so you need to be protecting yourself in many ways. If your lawyer doesn't know how to do that and isn't discussing your options and ways to protect you, then you need one who specializes in real estate law. The title company can also refer you to someone.

decorpas --

I will be as quick as I can.
1. June 2005, look at unfinished house with 22 acres

2. talk to Countrywide, they say if we can buy house they can do construction loan. Tell this to builder as well

3. get loan for house somewhere else.

4. Buy home in March 2006

5. Start to demo, Countrywide still insisting they are going to fund soon.
They talk us into spending 1/4 million of own money to start reno.
Tell builder its as good as done. Nothing signed though. ( I know, I know)

6. Sept 2006 Countrywide say oops, guess we can't do a construction loan on unfinished home

7. this whole time 1 st builder has been embezzling funds, filed BR in Oct 2006.

8. Search is on for new construction loan , new builder

9. Tried many places , many people, all the same answer...
... can't loan on an existing home. Pretty much stuck, couldn't sell, couldn't reno by ourselves, couldn't live there.
Still 2 mortgages

10. went another 6 months and local bank said they could do construction loan. Worked with them, they said they could pay of loan and do construction loan.
We would work with X builder. We were given no choice. So this is a big builder in town. I did absolutely no due diligence.

We thought if the bank likes him, must be fine. Also we had already tried everything we could. April 2007 new builder says I am going to start, bank says good to go. It took until Aug. 2007 to get funding. Bank had last minute thoughts and made us get 1.5 million life insurance on DH (even though we both run family business). Also then said loan amount would be cut to 75 % loan to value ratio.

Ok, so we are just stuck at this point, have to go with bank as builder has already started. Because builder started they asked him to sign off on his fee until permanent financing. He signed this. 80,000. To be paid at end, Aug 2008.

We did not know he actually signed, agreeing to this. After we signed his contract and closing papers. Builder said well I wont build unless you pay me
3000. per month.
We signed this agreement, thought we were stuck.

August 2007, builder starts. Its a fiasco from beginning. No one there, doesn't know plans (despite be given 3 copies), won't sign any contracts, won't get competitive bids, as he has a foreman who turns out to be not a foreman but a subcontractor who gets all this builders business plus profit. So now we are paying profit twice.
-Billing is a joke this foreman keeps no records of materials. time, etc.
-We are laughed at when we want detailed billing and invoices.
-Keep paying builder,
-Product starts be taken of the job by foreman (is witnessed) for their other projects.
-Confront them, thy pooh-pooh us off.
-Nothing being worked on, for days and weeks,
-fraudulent billing.

Sept 2007 we talk to bank and say this guy is a fraud, he is stealing, he is billing fraudulently etc. they dismis us and say there is nothing you can do

Oct 2008- go to bank again for same issues, make a comment that when we pay monthly we should get more
Bank says" pay monthly, he made an agreement not to take money"
Nothing done

Nov 2008 - Go to bank again and tell them same issues, way behind schedule, we were suppose to move in before Christmas, still ignore.

-Now they want to know why money is not going where he said,
we tell them that it is going exactly where he said, "DID you read the actual draw" they said "actual" I said you know the one he sends after the 1st draw to show where money is actually going. ( I can't believe I am this stupid). They said we didn't know about this. I said well he said this how it is always done.

-Still nothing being done

-Still nothing being done

House progress horrible, quality of everything questioned, as this foreman just would slap together inexperienced people to do work, pay them minimum wage and walk with huge $ from builder.
Jan. 2009 Finish, paint, tile all started, all were experienced guys we found
(yes they were sub-contractors)

February 2009 kept complaining to bank

-builder decides he doesn't want these guys paid until his foreman gets his last 3500 on siding which isn't done.

-we go to bank and say enough is enough

-march 2009 bank say same thing, and stops all progress and all pymts.
finish guy, tile guy, granite guy don't get draws (we still pay Interest)

- april 2009 bank says "Until you figure out how to get this house done for the budgeted amount we will not go forward. ( sorry, he did not do actual budget to figure out what everything would cost , also took 30, 000 in way of overcharges , stealing etc. )

- so now we have subs, suppliers etc, not paid. We quit paying our GC is fee in Feb because nothing was happening . Went to attorney, was no help.
Bank still saying you figure this out.

So dh an I are out there laying floors, doing remaining tile, remaining woodwork, clean-up, etc. As bank wont pay anyone, no one will work. We are waiting for money so we can get plumbing fixtures , more workers etc. But all this and we still are short the 30,000. from the budget because of builder, but still have to finish because we need to get final financing.

May 2009-
Builder filed lien , for materials that weren't paid (banks decision) also for siding that ( by everyone' admission) is NOT DONE. And the rest of his fee that was due in Aug.

Now bank is saying work this out with him to remove lien or that will start foreclosure. So they can be in 1st position.

2 more places have filed liens now du to non-payment. We ARE CONSIDERED TO BE IN DEAULT even though we make our interest pymts. to bank.

Lawyers are talking, no word yet.
Bank is being a little more cooperative in some areas.

We are still out there doing work ( headed out there after this) .
Still have 2 restaurants to run, 9 children still living at home, 8 of those I am still homeschooling , 7 of those under 14, 3 of those under 7.

To say I am busy is an understatement.

What else can we do?
We have had this property for 3 years. The builder does not own it. I know nothing about the title co.

The bank distributes all funds and does inspections. We sign draws with builder.

We have our barn turned into a kitchen, we literally spent every summer there. We garden, play, camp, have huge bar-b-ques. We have have committed our lives to this house and it is such a mess.
We are under extreme stress, but we have to keep going forward, if we let down for a moment someone is going to jmp and take it all away.

If we are to loose now we will loose about 1/2 million in equity. This is a high end, large home. We have been living in 2200 sq. ft for the last 12 years. This is our dream home and we have been waiting forever.

I can wait longer, I can work hard, but none of this seems right. I also know none of us are guaranteed fairness. But I know we will continue, we still have what is important in this life. I so know how fortunate with my dh and children.

Any advice, or help is of course appreciated. I just don't know how to work this out anymore.

Sorry for all typos, I tried to be fast.

Kimberly

Oh, gosh. As soon as I read Countrywide, my skin crawled. I am sure you are aware of their problems of late. If you're not, you should google them.

So you bought an existing house with the intent to demo it and rebuild. Did a realtor help you with this transaction?

You own the property. The liens he has taken out are not necessarily valid; this is a common aggression tactic. As I said, one thing they needed to have done is filed a Notice of Commencement before the job in order to properly file a lien (at least in most areas- yours may vary). Second, liens are enforcements of contracts and he doesn't have a contract with you, according to his own wish. I would question his right to file a lien against your property at all.

the following are things that might help you get some sense of control over this situation:

establish the validity of these liens (the subs liens sound valid - except the painter's, whose needs to be examined more closely-, GC's are up for discussion). Write all of these figures down. What is truly owed, what you're not sure of and what is not owed. If it helps, use one of the charts builders use that list the contractors,schedules, etc. You can probably get this off the internet.

talk with the bank about why they are threatening to foreclose on you when the liens may not be valid. get all answers in writing. email is great for this purpose. Get numbers from them of what they think is owed and make sure it matches what you cam up with. If it doesn't, talk to them via email about it.

talk with the bank about the draw process. Who gets the subs sign-offs, etc. Establish their process IN WRITING and take that to your lawyer/realtor/etc to make sure it is legal in your county. At the very least, you should have a better understanding of their process if you are going to GC your own home.

look up Countrywide and talk with someone higher up in that company if you need to. At least verify their procedures with regards to draws and liens, because what you have shared here sounds highly unusual.

I am sorry I don't have any better answers for you, but I must say I am awed by your fortitude and that of your family. This will end and you will have peace in your lives again. Hang in there.

Attorney. Now.

Not to keep beating a dead horse , just a few clarifications.

1. countrywide is not our lender now, local private bank
2. GC signed contract with us but not with any other sub, ( his own admission, thats not what he does)
3. I know the draw process like the back of my hand, problem is that GC was dealing with us and bank fraudulently as he was giving us a draw to sign but then had an "actual" that bank did not see.
4.painter has not filed lien, he owes us at this point, he just doesn't want to finish for his contract price (contract we signed, cause GC won't)
5. bank says they will foreclose to secure their 1st position
6. I guess we don't technically own anything as its all bundled with our construction loan. They paid off home and gave us a construction loan also.
7. the bank did not require subs to sign off , but they do now, because we complained.
8. the amounts in the GC lien are what we are disagreeing with, he is liened for things that are not finished
9. we have records of everything, conversations, meetings, draws, text messages, phone messages ( he threatened so many times to stop progress if we didn't sign bogus draw, we would tell bank and they would say you better sign so he won't lien)

seriously this is the most absurd situation I can imagine, I know the #'s of this project, the processes, everything. I am, as is dh very educated, very savvy. However we were way to trusting of these people, thinking because they were well known they must be ok. Biggest mistake we made, to be to trusting.

Live and learn for next. But I will never build a house again.
I have been through many, many hard things with our children's health, & we have lost a son. I say many times....

..... we have been to hell, this is only halfway there.

Kimberly

Oh, Kim...I'm so sorry for your loss and the hardship now.

It sounds like you have done so much to be proactive-- and that's great.

I still think your bank's draw process needs to be clarified, because I've just never heard of that. Someone has to be accountable for determining the validity of the liens.

check into the lien (mechanic lien/contractor lien) law in your state/county. there are rules regarding the filing of them that no one needs to follow until they are questioned about it.

Good luck to you, I'm glad you have an attorney on this as it sounds like you need one...this too shall pass.

I hope your post helps someone else not find themselves in this situation. I know how stressful building can be, but your situation is above and beyond.

Hang in there

PS You might want to repost re your paint question; I think it got lost in the horrified reaction to your situation. Please let us know how it is going and what your attorney says.

ohgosh, what a rotten thing to happen. The legal/financial issues are going to need resolution, and it sounds like you are well-educated enough to handle that in time. But right now you need your home finished. Here's what I would do.... Believe it or not, the hard part of the painting job has been done -the prep, priming and taping. I would rally every child over age ten and any friends and relatives you can bring on board, have a paint party and get it done. Honestly, it won't be that hard with many hands... And then you can handle the rest of it through the courts etc.
Lynn

I'm sorry, but I just can't make it through the whole thread, so I'm sure it's already been said. I just want to say, if he contracted for a specific amount, it's too bad he underestimated by so much, but that's what he offered to do it for, unless there are some specific clauses to cover himself in terms of it being an estimate. Unless the project ran into unforeseen circumstances or events, I'm not sure why he wouldn't honor it. Esp if he said he bid low just to get the job. That's surely his problem and a dishonest and deceptive way of going about getting the job.

I also don't understand the term 'estimate' when people are held to it! : ) Only once do I remember someone doing the work for less as the job panned out, although when it's more they don't seem to have trouble adding on.

It's a sticky situation, I think, to be able to estimate a project beforehand. I know some estimate by figuring something and then using a multiplier (I've heard 3) to cover themselves, cause things just don't always go as planned and projects are unique. Auto work drives me nuts at the dealer, the way the work is billed by standardized labor hours that are always much higher than the actual time the work took.

It would seem something like painting would be fairly straightforward to estimate and done by formula, but I'm not a painter!

acountryfarm, I am so sorry about all you have been going through with all the added stress of having the job not completed and all the fraud taking place. I wish I could help but I can only say I know how stressful it is being in lawsuits with dishonest people and having one stress after another. At least you and your husband have each other and have a lawyer to help you deal with this. I feel the painter has to live up to his contract or reimburse you for the extra pay you have to outlay due to his fraudulent underestimate. If he purposely knew the bid would be too low then to me that is fraud as his intent was to deceive to get the job and then put you in a situation to get you to pay him more.

Hang in there and please keep us updated. Again, I am so sorry.

Well, painter jut called me and asked about borrowing 2,000. 0r 3,000. dollars.

He said, "I know you don't owe me but if I could get this I know I would show up to work on monday"

Is this really happening?

Unbelievable. I suspect the painter might have substance abuse problems.

I have no advice, just moral support. You probably feel like you're in some alternative reality where common sense and fairness are the exception, not the norm. I'm sorry you are stuck in this mess.

I wish he had an excuse, I think he is really not all there.

hmmmm -- Can paint fumes do that?

I'm sorry...i'm going to step on a couple of toes here and i don't mean to...but there are some major errors in how decorpas is answering these questions that i have to help fix. the reason they're wrong might be a regional thing, but the way she's describing construction lending and the draw process is not how things are done in the majority of banks thoughout the US and definately not how things are done in the pacific northwest.

theres nothing wrong with the basic draw process at all. this is how construction lending is done. and sadly you are in default because you didn't ensure the subs were paid, which is unfair, but you'll see that addressed in the loan docs.

now, you're not all at fault here, and i want to help you out on the regulatory issues involved (the bank picking your contractor is called collusion and its not legal). their liabilities here are huge. so are yours but we need to establish a few things to get this back on track. first i need to know the name of the bank. if you don't want to post it here please email me. with this i can look up their regulators and help you file some complaints.

secondly you need a construction attorney, not just any ole' attorney. perhaps blue can help tell you where to look for one. you need one on monday before you lose your home.

i want to tell you more but am getting dressed to take a bunch of staff on a limo ride to a lovely dinner. i have only one arm so both dressing and typing takes time. i will return to this tomorrow.

my last position prior to leaving the bank with the baby was in the regulatory devision. i managed all hmda lendind, which covers your loan. i only tell you this so i can hioe to make you feel like i know of what i speak here and really do want to help :) i've fired lenders for loans like yours more than once.

at this point...the title company has nothing to do with the loan except to accept lien docs as they come in. its you and the bank and the bad guys...who might be the bank as well, or a bad lender. but i will have more ? for you on that tomorrow.

don't give anyone any money until we talk...which we might even want to do over the phone.

now on the paint...use sw's all surface enamel in high gloss for the woodwork. its fabulous and you won't regret the change at all!!!

Igloo,

I'm glad you're here to help her with the banking part of this. She certainly needs it. I've been through years of construction loans and thought perhaps some of that experience might be helpful to her. I was also a custom builder for many years, and so I'm familiar with the process.

I did say a few times that it changes from state to state, and even counties can differ in their processes, and that she should check with a real estate attorney. She already has the advice of counsel. I do think you could have been a bit softer in your answer, and I am not sure I liked being painted as someone giving bad advice, when I specifically mentioned the regional differences and suggested she see a lawyer. But, I certainly learned a lesson here, as I didn't know her area and perhaps I shouldn't have even replied.

Where I did business, the title company was involved from start to finish and frankly, stuff like this just didn't happen.

Acountryfarm: I'll certainly butt out now, since you're in good hands:-) and wish you all the best!

As someone who doesn't understand much about the situation that acountryfarm is in but who enjoys reading and sometimes posting on these forums, I feel compelled to add my two cents to this one. Certainly a web forum is no place to solve these types of complicated legal issues. You're not going to get much more than some moral support and perhaps a nod in the right direction. Take all advice as that. Decorpas made the correct caveat that laws governing this matter vary from state-to-state and even county-to-county. Then she proceeded to give general in the best spirit of the forum. Igloo's attitude feels very dismissive. She may indeed have some good advice from the point-of-view of the bank (one point-of-view in this very complicated situation), but it is just that -- from one point-of-view. Acountryfarm -- take all the above for what it is, judge for yourself what is best-intentioned, and fight your battle.

igloo, decorpas, and all other supporters.
First , amen to all the moral support. You can only go so long before you let the nightmares your living be known. So again, thanks to all of you my cheer leaders.

Igloo, I can agree with all you said about how it is done here. Your exactly right.
We have seen a few attorneys in the course of this. As you all have said we need a construction attorney, not easy to find here. Two of the ones we were referred to could not help us as they are already litigating against builder for other homeowners, nice, huh?

Our business attorney just merged with banks attorneys so we all had to find new ones.

So, I will email you and we can go from there. This is a bad situation and I have done this for 3 years, what more do we get to go through?

Thanks to you all.

When you tell people that it isn't done like that there, I think you mean the title company isn't involved. That detail is interesting to note, but distracts from the main point which is the failure to collect lien releases before a draw.

Whether the title company collects those releases or the bank or homeowner does it, the overriding process remains the same. Releases are collected prior to draws. That is not a regional thing.

I passed on information that I paid a highly well respected (on a national level) attorney who specializes in real-estate and construction law to learn in the past.

It wasn't cheap, he's no fool, and I'm quite certain he knows what he is talking about. It took me years in the business to find him and make this very valuable connection.

I'm very sorry that you have so quickly dismissed it, but that is your choice. However, when you fail to appreciate the time I put into writing these responses and the resources that went into learning all of this, it makes me regret taking the time to answer and respond on these forums.

Igloo, I am sure you are very knowledgeable in your field of banking. However, banking is only one piece of the pie here.

the last line of this snippet from a construction law site reiterates all of my above posts:

Snip:

Whose Responsibility is it To Get These Releases?

You can stipulate in the agreement with your contractor that he must provide all releases of lien. If it is not a part of the contract, however, or you act as your own contractor, YOU must get the releases.

If you borrow money to pay for the improvements and the lender pays the contractor(s) directly, without obtaining releases, the lending institution may be responsible to you for any loss.

decorpas -- I am not sure what you are referring to " I so quickly dismissed it".
I really haven't dismissed anything. I am at a loss here. I only stated that in fact whats being done in my case doesn't seem to be whats done other places.
I know it may not be right but that is the only reference I have.
No releases were ever received by lender until now when everything is falling apart.

They paid many people without getting anything from anyone. I am not saying this is right , just how its been done to date.
They have started to get lien releases now but nothing until lately. That is precisely why some of the problem I guess.

Also, GC is the main player here who filed a lien, what do we do about him. How does the bank get a lien release from him.

It sounds like you have been offended, for that I am certainly sorry. I just am stating the facts as they get asked about or talked about.

I wish none of this was happening and as I have said in earlier post am VERY THANKFUL for EVERYONE"S advice and opinions.

Kimberly

decorpas

Oh my gosh , I was just re-reading your post again and really feel you may have read something into my post that I didn't write.
I am not sure why you are are not wanting to contribute to this or any other post. Please understand I was just commenting on the fact that my situation seems to be like no other & that what igloo was saying is exactly what has been happening, no title co. involved whatsoever. I thought this was a friendly conversation on a difficult topic, I did not see it was going anywhere negative at all. Please understand that. I do not ever want to offend those that are trying to help.

I tried to email you but your page doesn't have that option.

Kimberly

deco, i'm very sorry that my wording felt dismissive and rude to you! that wasn't my intent, and i knew from the start that there was no way for me to answer this post without steping on toes because a few of the things were just wrong....and as i said, that is probably a regional issue!! i didn't mean everything that you had shared was wrong, but given the regional differences, and my knowledge of banking law, there were specific differences in this deal.

for the record, there is no law that requires a bank to provide three builders to choose from. prudence, and the deep desire to not appear to be in collusion with a builder tells management to share with their lenders that you should always provide at least three references if asked, but that the better option is to provide none at all although, without endorsing any, you can also provide a list of approved builders, and the approval process so that a clients builder can be approved if appropriate.

you were right about releases somewhat, but if you re-read what you just posted the lawyers favorite word is there...the bank MAY be responsible...they also may not be :) but since its your home and land, the ultimate responsibility is therefore yours if you care to maintain your interest in the property.

title companies are involved in all re transactions at some point, but most are involved at the start and finish of the loan process, not the middle, unless a banks lending capacity rating requires them to have 3rd party oversite on their loans.

i wasn't answering with just a bankers experience, but with regulatory experience because i see some very big signs of possible misconduct on the part of the bank. i hate rouge lenders and rouge banks, and was hoping to steer kim onto another path that needs to be explored by her attorney.

kinberly...i think you are going to have to leave town on this deal to find the right attorney :(

deco i am again sorry. my arm is in a cast and i fiind it terribly hard to type too much too quickly, and that was a rushed post. but beat me up...kimberly has enough grief to deal with and you're being far too touchy with her after her posts. call me terrible...i am sorry i just didn't get that post written as well as i could have! i guess its best that i leave off attempting to comment if i cant take hours to compose a post first.

Just wanted to tell those interested, that we are meeting with GC in about an hour.

The bank has said, of course, that they have no fault and we need to work this out.
So we will see. Obviously there are definitely things we can't work out, we will leave that until sometime later, but if we can some step toward him removing his lien that would be great.
I really thought because his lien had items that were not finished, it would be considered fraudulent.
Maybe our attorney will have some great news today.
I will check back in later and let you all know.
Thanks again for all the help & support.
I still can't believe we are 30 days from home being done and this is what we are dealing with.

Any progress with your painter dilemma? I had read your painful saga earlier and want you to know that you've been in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you've made progress both on the legal front and also in getting your home completed. You have definitely put my minor construction woes into perspective, and, if nothing else, know that you certainly helped me with a reminder to get those lien waivers when I (hopefully) finalize things with my GC in the next week or so!

Painter asked to borrow 3k a few days ago. He said "I know you don't owe me, but if you could do this I know I would be at work on Monday" Ha!

Obviously, we said , NO!
We are getting ready to do the paint ourselves not to mention, the finish plumbing, pouring the cement steps, doing all last little finish work, all the grout etc.
The bank told my dh yesterday they were disappointed with our slow progress. WHAT? we are paying the builder they set us up with 80k to do this and he is putting a lien on our home and extorting us to sign his hold harmless or he won't take it off. If he doesn't take it off the bank will foreclose as they need to be in 1st position.

It really is awful, I can hardly think straight. We definitely appreciate all prayers as they are on our hearts as well. Thank you for asking.
I just wish I had some better news.

I just know it is these situations that bring our true character to light.

"It is not how we sail through the good times, it how we walk through the trials, that makes us who we are"

Kimberly