kmohr - Unfortunately, I'm no help answering your question but I am considering lyptus, too. I did start a thread while back....still doesn't answer your question but you may find it interesting. I'll be watching for other responses! Here is a link that might be useful: lyptus thread

Thanks, very helpful. Especially about noting the warranties. We're looking at a custom guy, too, whose work I've seen and it's good -- but I'd be concerned about warranty issues down the road. Given that we're going with flat slab doors, the kitchen designer will also price out a custom shop, as she thinks it may be price competitive given that we're going with such a simple design. What I'm hearing, though, is that natural wood veneer shouldn't be more susceptible to delamination, chips, peeling, dents, etc. than the fake wood laminate? On the more affordable end, I really like the look of Semihandmade and smile everytime I see my new bath cabinet. And I drool over online photos of Henrybuilt, Kerf, Build LLC's SPD, and others outside our price range. I don't have the same emotional response to the wood look cabinets. Just for ideas, I've been in several of the high end European showrooms, and while they're sleek and well done, it's not the same as real wood. I was going to convince myself to go with the fake wood if it would be more durable, but if I can have real wood (probably walnut or teak, likely grainmatched vertically), that's my preference. Would appreciate any other thoughts or advice, thanks.

Veneer is a much greener choice. It takes the desirable wood and allows say 100 people to enjoy that tree instead of just 2 that would consume it for solid wood cabinets. Veneering over plywood is very tricky and usually most top quality cabinet makers won't do it. THe problem is that you have to have a very very smooth substrate, and plywood just isn't smooth enough or contains knots. Those knots and grain patterns of the substrate plywood can telegraph through the veneer and show. That's NOT what you want in a job. It's a myth that plywood is somehow more "real wood" than is MDF. Both are composed of wood! Plywood is very very thin veneer layers laid cross grain to each other and glued and pressed together. Good quality plywood has no internal voids and all the layers are composed of the same quality wood material, such as baltic birch. Poor quality plywood is crap. It has skips and voids and big knotholes etc. MDF is small offcuts from the milling process separated into the basic fibers of the tree. When those fibers are combined with glues and pressed, the grains go every which way, which creates strength. It also creates an extremely smooth surface which is perfect for furniture construction. The terms partical board, and MDF are routinely interchanged without much thought as to the fact that they really aren't interchangeable. Partical board has visible wood fibers and can be compressed at a density of anywhere from around 14 pounds per square inch for the cheap round bed tables that fall apart when you put a drink on them to 60 pounds per square inch with better quality glues that can sit in water for an hour or two and show no ill effects. MDF is smaller and more invisible fibers and compressed under higher pressure. It's actually a lot more wood per square inch than any plywood is if you want to get technical! Ask any cabinet installer. They don't prefer plywood for durabiliy. They prefer it because it's a lot lighter and makes their job easier when hanging. When cabnets are made from factory sourced desirable wood plywood, then the cherry or teak or whatever is the desirable grain is the final layer on the plywood and is done on quality no knots or voids plywoood at a cross grain to the previous layer with good quality glues. The desirable wood is generally thicker than shop applied veneer, so even if there is a problem with the substrate, the veneer won't telegraph the issue. It's pretty easy to take that good quality plywood and edge band it and create slab cabinet doors. I could do that, and I don't even own a panel saw, just a good table saw. However, it's pretty difficult to take any plywood, good quality or not, and apply a thin veneer to it in shop without it telegraphing the plywood substrate at some point. A good quality vacuum press will suck that thin veneer right to the substrate and mold it to it, and that includes any substrate graining patterns if they exist. That's why MDF is the traditional substance used for veneer work. Yes, you can find thicker veneers out there to go on plywood, but they are specialty items and pretty expensive and usually reserved for fine furniture rather than cabinetry. If you want your cabinets made like fine furniture, you can certainly have it done. Just be prepared to pay the labor and materials to have it done---and be prepared to take those cabinets with you when you move like they do in Europe. THe next owner may not appreciate the quality and paint over them or rip them out.

Romy I totally agree. I am doing exposed hinges but I don't think that will make much impact on my base cabinets. Maybe I will price out adding the decorative feet and a few glass doors. I will have 4-6" of crown and my island will have turned legs, but I'm not sure that well be enough detail. Jillius I honestly think he would understand. And if he doesn't, well, he'd already be your ex husband! ;)