Newbie question: how detailed does your PB bid need to be?

15 years ago

HI,

I have been surfing this forum with great interest and have found many answers to my many questions already! As a newbie, it's hard to know what to expect, especially this one: we have received several bids back from prospective PBs. They are all different (of course) and it's hard to compare apple to apple but my question is: how detailed must their bid be? One is giving us every single line item pricing and detailed plans (he's expensive by the way...) and another one is listing what's provided in terms of excavation, gunite, plumbing, etc but gives one big number at the end and that's it. Is this a red flag to you or is it normal? We have no idea what costs how much and therefore, have no flexibilty in options. DH trusts the first one who's more upfront more obviously but PB #2 is a lot cheaper. Also PB#2's design were more than approx. Do you have to have plan to specs at this stage or is this again a red flag to you? Thanks for your input.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

mewmew
15 years ago
We had a total of three bids. The first and third pool company was very detailed with their bid. The second one was very detailed when they presented it to us but the print out they gave us to take home was not very detailed. I don't think it's necessarily a red flag, just that some PB do things differently.

If you want you can always speak with PB #2 and ask for a detailed version of everything that is included in the price. This way you can compare to PB #1. He should be willing to speak with you in detail about what he's offering and why he's cheaper. Don't be afraid to ask the PB #2 why he's cheaper than the competition and how can he afford to be cheaper. Remember you are giving up your hard earned money for this pool, so don't be afraid to ask questions.

Keep in mind that cheaper is not always better.

When you say that all your bids were different, how much was the difference? The three bids we got were around the same range. I think the biggest difference was about $5,000.
tsunami
15 years ago
The details are important on the final contract.

Do some research, and make a list of everything that's important to you. Then go back to the PB's that you're comfortable with and tell them what you want. At that point, you should be able to get a relatively good comparison on prices.

Before signing the final contract, make sure that everything you want is written in the contract or you'll have no recourse.
Related Discussions
New construction Heat & Air bid questions (long)
Q
Comments (3)
prinesurf 1.you have extremely good utility rates 2.this is your home, not the builder's or his HVAC dealer. You have to live there. I still recommend you seek a quote on the Carrier Infinity system with the Infinity controller and their complementary zonong controls. 3.The g60 while two stg does not have a var spd blower and is only 80% eff. Big mistake! The G60v while var speed, it is only 80% AFUE eff and unless paired with a heat pump, this is a big mistake as well. 4.disagee. You want comfort and that includes even heating/cooling and quiet. That's what you get with var speed. 5.good 6.I would at least move up to the XC14 which is quieter. 7.good on having zoning controls. Unfamiliar with the Jackson brand. I assume this is a 3rd party control rather than the Lennox Harmony control. Perhaps other members can comment. I don't care for 3rd party HVAC equipment. Carrier has a tried and tested zoning control system. 8.Which Honeywell Media filter? Nothing is wrong with a good media filter as long as it is placed in an accessible area for easy changeout. 9.That is an absurd price on the upgrade to the XC16! You might check on the XC15. I see a pattern to the Lennox quote and your HVAC dealer's pricing and upgrades. It tends to benefit someone other than you! A couple of suggestions. I would put the G61v furnace downstairs with the XC15 AC. Upstairs, I would put the G60v with the XC14 AC or XP14 heat pump. You also need a stat that controls humidity by controlling blower speed on the var spd blowers. I would investigate the Zoning control dealer is planning on using. And insist on load calc in writing! You will regret not getting var spd blowers on your furnaces. IMO
...See More
Asking a PB Quetions During Bidding Process
Q
Comments (20)
Quote: "Try Finding a certified building professional in your area. The CBP Certified Building ProfessionalÂ® credential is awarded by the Association of Pool and Spa Professionals..." If I may, this is not, by itself, a good indicator. In my area there is a well known pool builder that has CBP accreditation, and whom I contacted when I began the process. However, it didn't take long to eliminate them when I could not find a single customer that did not have a horror with the PB. Two guys in my shop were horrified I had even called the company - both told me the company president cursed them using MF and similar sorts of words when the company's shoddy work was challenged. One guy showed me the paperwork from a civil suit in which the homeowner "won" even though it cost time, some money, and a ton of aggravation to get his pool completed (by another company). So, is it worth something to have it - my guess is yes, but please don't let it substitute for a healthy Caveat Emptor attitude.
...See More
PB problem! PLEASE give us your advice!
Q
Comments (24)
THANK YOU for all of your replies! You have no idea how much it has helped. We did talk to the pool builder and explained again that we wanted to work it out. They believe they can get this phase done with one more day's work and then move on. Our pool contract addendum states that we will pay him 5% after completion of this phase, and then the remaining (and final) 5% before pebblesheen. Our PB told us that we could either - A. Pay him the 5% immediately and get two days of work from him in a row, or....B. Pay him after he finishes this phase (as the contract states) and he won't be able to schedule us again for two weeks. He said it would be unfair to his other customers to be at our place two days in a row. He also blamed us for the four month process - saying that I hadn't chosen the grout color in a timely manner. Unbelievable. He is obviously looking for any excuse at this point. To top it all off, the stacked stone steps to the spa he built on Wednesday have been falling off. It seems that they mortared the vertical walls to DIRT, I'm no mason, but I do know that grout, cement, etc. doesn't stick to dirt. I'll post pictures tomorrow morning. I had called the ROC immediately after our PB had told us that if we pursued an ROC hearing, he would abandon working on our pool. The ROC told us that if our PB did that, it would be seen as retaliation against us for trying to protect our rights, and would NOT be in the interest of the PB. It is a direct violation of the statutes. At least our PB was kind enough to threaten this in an email, easy proof for later. The ROC also told us to forget paying this guy another penny (as all of you have suggested) until the final inspection is complete. Our payment schedule has been way out of line from the norm - we had paid him way too much up front before finding out from the ROC what the payment schedule should be. So, we are sending the PB an email in the morning to let him know we expect him to finish this pool. After final inspection, before Pebblesheen, we will give him the remaining 10%. If he wishes to stop work on the pool, we will consider it job abandonment and take it up with Administrative Judge at the ROC. What a friggin bummer. I absolutely hate that it's come to this, but we are just so tired of being brow-beat from this guy! If he does stop work on our pool, so be it. We tried to make the best of it tonight, telling each other that we will just focus on the BBQ kitchen, get some other outside bids, and enjoy other things. What's another couple of months to wait when we've already waited so long? It will all turn out OK. It is, after all, just a pool. THANK YOU AGAIN for all of your terrific advice. I might just be posting pictures of my kids or something for awhile since we won't have any pool pictures :). But someday soon, we will have water!
...See More
How long does it take a PB to get back to you about designs?
Q
Comments (12)
1.) How long did they say it would be before they contacted you? If they gave you no time frame, I might cut them some slack as they're probably trying to get some pools finished up so those customers can catch a swim or two before closing the pools. No, the sales rep/consultant isn't building those pools, but he or she may need to check on some things with the PB before getting back to you. You'll need to contact more than that one PB anyway, so you may at well make some of those other appointments while you're waiting...just be sure to get them to commit when they'll be getting back to you. 2.) Depends - some do, some don't. 3.) Depends. As you receive more bids, you'll have a better idea of what's customary in your market. 4.) The all-important question!!! Leepoffaith has some good points. It may be possible for you to go to your local permit office and ask for a list of the most recent permits a company has pulled. You could then contact the homeowners for a reference and get a good idea of how things are going right now. I can say from personal experience that a good BBB report and good recommendations don't mean much if the PB has just experienced a change of fortune; that's why a list from the permit office would help.
...See More
leonardsmalls
15 years ago
Our bid was very specific with regards to equipment and features (model numbers on pumps/heater/SWG/pool cleaner etc) It also broke out the cost of upgrades; Diamondbrite to Pebblesheen, peagravel decking to spray deck to flagstone, spa addition, raised beam addition, etc.
mark1969
15 years ago
Be careful of anything labeled "allowance". Our PB conveniently hit us with an up charge of $1,200. He called exactly an hour after picking up his check. When questioned he said the electrical install was just an "allowance" and his contractor, that he always uses, just charged $1,200 more than he allowed for. We did not ask for anything additional and never discussed an upcharge. He seemed shocked that I even questioned it and said there was no way he was going to pay the difference... He still has a lot of work to do and 95% of our money, so I guess we are SOL... He said he gave us a great deal so we should not complain eventhough I had another quote for 4K less. The sad part is I trusted this guy and I can tell he probably does this all the time... BE CAREFUL
sdkath
15 years ago
I agree! The more detailed the better. See my post under San Diego Sunshine (a few posts down). I had all that equipment, the piping, the dig time, etc all detailed in the contract. If you don't get all that worked out, you are not comparing apples to apples (and they can get you with fees later).

I ended up making a list of the equpiment we wanted and handing it to the PB before their bid. That way they didn't waste their time quoting me gunite pool with plaster when I wanted shotcreted with PebbleTec.

Katherine
tsunami
15 years ago
Get everything you can think of on the final contract. If you miss something and want to upgrade later, they'll charge you top dollar to make up for the "good deal" they gave you in the first place.
autonut
15 years ago
The best thing you can do is maintain leverage by making sure you don't pay ahead on your payment schedule for benchmarks met. Make sure you hold back a final payment for final inspection. If you pay them ahead you will not get a responsive builder. Get a lien release from your PB as well so if he doesn't pay subs they can't lien your property. My neighborhood assoc just had our pool redone, well its not quite yet done. Supposed to be done in May 08 but not done and will have to pick it back up in the spring. Fortunately we have held back 50k from the PB. That'll be a big incentive for him to get er done.
grn_eyed_sal
15 years ago
Please get details, specific timelines with completion date if possible, and don't let them just give a final total. Go with your gut feeling even if you have a higher price. I wish we had not have been so trusting in our process. Don't let the guy/gal tell you that "this is the way it's done" - odds are, it isn't.
poolguynj
15 years ago
If it isn't in writing, it wasn't said.

Newbie question: how detailed does your PB bid need to be?

Comments (9)

mewmew

tsunami

Related Discussions

leonardsmalls

mark1969

sdkath

tsunami

autonut

grn_eyed_sal

poolguynj

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US