Please Please follow the advice of golfgeek. The shotcrete looks good, I would like to see your plumbing stub @ Eq location.

Hi Damien,
Where is a plumbing stub found? I will send pictures.
So, still not moved forward. They have not picked up the thin chipped stone on my front lawn that they delivered...but told me they will if now I pay an up charge for it plus 2000 to grind down the pool and tow away their mistake. to fit the 2 inch coping that I had picked out in the beginning. I HATE THESE PEOPLE!!
They must truly be the sleaziest in the industry. How can a company like this keep a license to build?

Maybe you should contact the BBB about these guys?

Hi Damien,
Where is a plumbing stub found? I will send pictures.
So, still not moved forward. They have not picked up the thin chipped stone on my front lawn that they delivered...but told me they will if now I pay an up charge for it plus 2000 to grind down the pool and tow away their mistake. to fit the 2 inch coping that I had picked out in the beginning. I HATE THESE PEOPLE!!
They must truly be the sleaziest in the industry. How can a company like this keep a license to build?

Thanks for all your support. I stood my ground and the cam and picked up the ugly chipped shale that was my coping...of course they picked up the ledge stone too....but have promised to straighten that out today. So I went to MSI and picked out travertine coping that I am going to buy direct and have them install. They made me sign a change order that said I am okay with the coping being a 1/2 inch higher than the patio. I did not see the harm since they are pouring concrete around it they can just level it up. Right? Not sure when it will move forward, but I am staying hopeful. I will post pictures if we ever get to the next steps. Then I will need to hire some one to redue my balcony in cement. How much should that cost is orange county California? I have a 10 x 20 foot balcony deck in wood. I want it done in cement and iron rails. Any recommendations? Honest builders only...Please I have been through enough.

Dear Animallover5, can you please provide an update on how this turned out for you? I'm so sorry to hear of all the grief you've gone through up to this point. There are definitely lessons here that will be helpful to the next person, like me. We're in Pasadena, CA and am in the process of designing our new pool and spa. Haven't picked a PB yet, but am keen to know how this ordeal turned out for you for our consideration of PBs. Thank you.

Hi Lulieleek,

They have not finished still. They have to still fix the stone work and do the cement and etc. When I got home one evening the evening of the theft they had also made one the fire bowl Pilasters 29 inches high and the other one 24 inches high.( I did fill out a police report a month a go when Alex and the other mason guy stole 15 or 16 pieces of my 16 inch by 24 inch and 12 inch by 24 inch expensive travertine.) After MR. Carlos company called us liars and we fought back and forth they agreed if we did not prosecute their employees, (which they now claim are sub contractors and would not give us their full names) they agreed to finished the job and complete access wall cement and everything. They have not.

The sales guy Tom Gundersen( the owners son) came onto my property and pretended to measure the 29 inch pilaster holding the tape measure above the ground at the 24 inch mark...I guess he th

Wow. I'm so sorry for what you're experiencing. This really is a nightmare construction project that will be hard to shake off and I'm afraid it will make you very apprehensive to do any kind of construction project again. I wish it had been a better experience, but I can't thank you enough for letting us in on it. I have a meeting scheduled with Mr. Carlos this week, but obviously we won't be hiring them after hearing about your experience and that of others. Again, I'm very sorry you're going through this, but thank you for saving us from the same thing. I've seen only 1 other post (the Black Flag pool) where the homeowner didn't encounter preventable and sometimes big problems with them. Now we just have to find the right vendor. It's tough!

I do have to say though, that the pool is looking really pretty in your pics so far. When it finally gets done, I hope you can put the awful experience behind you and just enjoy the reward of a beautiful pool. Can you please keep updating this post with your progress? I'm so interested in seeing the final result and how you managed getting through everything. Also, my email if you'd like to communicate outside of this site is julieleekimura@gmail.com. I would really appreciate following your experience to the end.

On another note, is that an American Eskimo I see in your backyard? We have 2! We shave our older Eskie to keep her shedding under control and to keep her cool which makes her silhouette look like that of your dog in this pic, but I can't tell for sure. And 3 weeks ago we just got an Eskie puppy, so we're in puppy hell right now. She's 11 weeks old and is lucky she's so cute!

Wishing you the best of luck in getting your pool done fast without any more problems! Thanks again.

Hi Julie,

That makes two of us! I would love to see pictures of your Eskimo puppy too. I sent you a very long private email. You can respond there too.

So, now 8 month after signing the contract with MR. Carlos pool and construction company I am told that even though they are doing my decking it does not include drains. I have to pay extra to put in the drains around the pool...and also even though Tom Gunderson told me that they will match the color of my cement patio that is connected...I see where he conveniently left it also off the contract!! So I emailed them to not color the cement. The cement guy Augie, said I have to remove even more of the cement between the patio post so that it will lay right and he will put in the drains.... and haul away the concrete that he is removing for $1800 extra. I told him okay I have no choice, but do noting until I see it in writing and itemized. Plus see your contractors license and workers comp...I came home and the drains were put in by the steps not next to the patio yet and the concrete is cut out, but left sitting on my lawn. NOT hauled away. Do any of these people follow instructions? Thomas Gunderson sent me a nasty email accusing me of trying to get free stuff out of them for nothing!!! $56500 for a 26 foot swimming pool and 7x7 spa... how dare I expect them to put the drains in included in the price into the cement decking!!! That he said would be included...but left off the contract!

This is awful. It serves everyone's best interest to make sure both sides understand what is and is not included up front, and really that has to be on the PB's shoulders to provide since they're the ones who have that knowledge. Obviously most people have not built a pool before so it is a learning experience for them. The PB would be wise to recognize this and provide all costs up front so clients don't feel taken advantage of. And they'd get referrals that way. Short sighted. I'm hoping for the best for you! Oh, what about lighting around the pool (i.e., in the deck)? Did your price include that and was it itemized?

Hi Julie,

I appreciate your comments and I completely agree.

Pool lighting is not included. Everything is extra! Not included. The thing is that even if they tell you it is included and they purposely leave it off your contract and you don't notice that they left if off on purpose....You are screwed out of it. False advertising...they don't care. nothing you can do about it. They say it will take 90 days in writing and tell you they will really have it done in half that time...doe not matter.

I am way past what the contract said and still not done. I hate this pool so much now that I am not sure I will ever get into it!! They finally after 5 month put back up the access wall That was in the contract. But they did not paint it... so I did! Still the trash is everywhere. When they empty a bag of mortar and sand on your patio...they just leave what they don't use. Huge bags of sand dumped on my walkway for mixing....huge piles left there for me to clean? Empty coffee cups and cans and bottles...just dropped where they finish them and go home. That is the home owners problem! They told me they would clean up everyday after themselves! See at the bottom of the spa...that is my light...been sitting there for three months like that.

I have been looking at PBs in the Orange County area, and noticed that Mr Carlos was rated well on Angie's List. You need to contact them to make sure they know about all the issues you've been having, if you haven't already. It's deplorable what they've done with your job.

cba6777, I'm also looking for a PB in Pasadena, CA. Maybe we can collaborate and share our findings with each other? Please email me if interested: julieleekimura@gmail.com.

That is definitely the way to go. Smart idea and drive over and look at each referral to make sure they are real pools and ask to see their contracts if they let you!!! That way you can rule out staged references by PBs.

So yesterday was clean up day finally after 5 months of begging. This is what MR. Carlos crew did not take with them. Yet they keep demanding that I pay them in full. They had a more important client to tend to. So they left the job.....Again!

The drains are not finished the debris is only half cleaned up. The fire bowls are not on and they installed the cracked travertine instead of good ones. Because the when the mason's stole the 18 pieces of my Travertine coping they left ones that they had thrown in my yard to use for my project. Ones they had damaged.

July will be one year since I signed a pool contract with them. Still not done! And nobody cares at all! Would you pay $56,500 for this torture?

You should really talk to your attorney. The contracts that a lot of these companies use for protections simply rely on ignorance to keep you from taking action. Under the UCC all contracts have a general warranty of merchantability, which says the work in the contract is up to the industry standard. Now there is some leniency in what exactly industry standard is. But it doesn't sound like you will have much trouble proving their work isn't. Even if they try to indemnify themselves from getting sued in the contract the only way that they can avoid the general warranty of merchantability is to specifically say the merchandise in question is not up to industry standard and that is why they are selling it so cheap. That general warranty of merchantability can also include time to complete. In the end, find a free consultation from an attorney and try the Attorney General's office.

Thank you bry911. I would have done that in November, but I agreed to binding arbitration. I really did not want to take on a fight either. I just wanted my little pool and spa finished before my son's wedding last September. And I would have gladly paid them for a finished pool. I should never have signed the contract with them last July. My boyfriend is so mad at me for bringing these people onto my property and stealing from us and the filth! We have not been able to get a sprinkler guy to give us an estimate either due to all of the debris so He has to hand water everything every night with the hoses and he had to dig a trench around our king palm to keep it alive. You know you have to expect a couple of weeks of trenches, but no one expects 5 or 6 months of garbage and trenches and no sprinklers and the front access wall down! There was no reason to even put us through all of this. The guy that stole my Travertine coping Alex I think is the only Mason they have. I believe he does all the jobs from San Gabriel valley to Fontana. The junk hauler guy said he was told to leave the dirt and just pick up the garbage, because they would only would pay him $500. So the junk guy left to work a job that paid better and said he would be back next week.

They take on jobs that they can't possible do correctly. That is why 9 months is just around the corner for my job.. To be fair..The inspector did not pass our height of wall due to a gas meter footing. He said he told them that back in November. Now 2 days before April... Also when they built the access wall back it was too short. So this last delay...which they knew about would be my responsibility to fix. And we did fix it. the next day.

I would like half my money back. I think that is fair. We sent all details to the contractors board Arbitrator on Friday. I am generally not a fighter....but I expected them to do the right thing. They clearly have not. They clearly do not care about their customers or they could not do this. Just one woman's opinion.

Hi Deborah_ps,

Thank you for your kind wishes. It must have worked. Their trouble shooter Mike came over this week and took my list of problems and garbage and stolen travertine and fixed everything as of yesterday. They even sawed through the edge of the cement concrete to put in the travertine that should have been there before the decking went in. It looks fabulous and I am very grateful for that. Next is the plaster and I will be done. Mike is my new hero!

He made this happen. I will post pictures once it has water in it. It won't be today...;o( they just informed me.

I am so happy to hear this! Wonderful news and what a relief for you.

Thank you Julie! You have no idea how relieved I am to be rid of the garbage from my lawn and to see the fire bowls on and the cement decking and travertine in!! I nearly cried last night when I came home to see it.

I am just waiting for the plasterer to come and then almost there!! Say a little prayer that they plaster tomorrow for me....I so wanted my kids to be in it for Easter Sunday....guess that won't happen now...unless they plaster tomorrow.

Yes! Praying that you're floating soon

Okay, so the plaster company came and did a very nice job. I chose Aruba sky quartz plaster. I think they forgot to put in my umbrella stands on the Baja. Since the pool is now full of water...I guess I may have to drain some out for them to install the umbrella sleeves. hmmmm right now the pool is getting an acid bath. In two weeks we can swim.

Today we added sod where the 4 foot high mounds of garbage were for 6 months. I will take pictures tonight from that angle as well and post them tomorrow.

What a stunner!

You must be over the moon :)

Thank you Deborah_ps! I am certainly pleased with the final outcome. However our sprinkler lines were broker under the cement pour. New problem to deal with. They promised to fix it though. We have been trying to dig to find the broker lines, but look like they are squarely under the new cement pour.

closing in on the finish line....mastic goes in around the pool today. Firebowls will be filled with lava rock and tested as soon as the gas lines are hooked back up. Next week We are going to try to stain the cement ourselves...Then pool party! Apparently I have drawn the attention of the neighborhood with all of the problems and delays.

Oh my gosh! That view! It's just gorgeous and made so much better with the water beneath it. I can just imagine the relaxing evenings you're going to have either in the pool, or sitting on your patio enjoying the view of the pool up against the mountains. So happy for you!

Thank you Julie and everyone for your support and comments and well wishes! I am already enjoying the garbage being gone....I go out and look at it every night when I get home and look and say...no garbage...I can't believe it is gone. Now to pick a pool service. and the color of the cement. I am thinking of beige to match the Travertine...any thoughts. the rest of the patio is desert rose.

Should I match the patio or the travertine?

Yes, I think the beige will look really good with everything, so that's my vote. Please post a pic when you're done : )

Well I read most of the posts here and am once again shocked at people with problem pool builders. Of course this is all after the fact. Were inspections done for each phase of the pool construction? When you were initially searching for pool builders, did you get several bids? We're these clowns the lowest? To they give you a payment schedule? Did you read the contract before signing or just look at the bottom line? I build pools up on the central coast in San Luis Obispo. When I lose a job to another builder it's usually because they were way less expensive. When I've been shown proposals by potential clients and they ask " can I build the pool for that lower price" I always say no because they are short margined to get the job and either do crappy work and or sell up after the fact. The pool looks good to bad you had a group of unprofessional bullies running this job. Again was this job inspected and passed with the gas line about to be encapsulated in gunite not Shotcrete by the way.

Hi Sun Pool,

Yes, they were the lowest or at least it looked that way until after I signed. They told me a lot verbally that they would match the other bid that I was about to sign with all the same high quality stonework. But then they rearranged it and I did not pick up on it until I signed the contract. they took the group level three that I had on the coping and put it in front of the Tile that I already had given the stock number and name on...so then they sent over the most hideous chipping shale for the coping and then we were on a month plus stand still. So then I had to go and find a store and buy my own....even writing about this now upsets me. They are correcting all of the problems now and fixing all of the issues....it is a lot! But it is getting done. They have a trouble shooter who is worth his weight in gold. Very nice guy...the only one I talk too. His name is Mike. He should have a pool company. He is honest and genuine.

They did finally do it in shotcrete....what do you mean gunite? Don't scare me

Friday this Friday I will be all done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After all the problems, my pool is now very pretty and by next week we can swim in it...

they left the dates off of the payment schedule they just put the scope of work on the payments. and yes, I did get 5 bids. The inspections did not always pass. they had to rework a few times. gas lines and steel etc. They used a lot of sub contractors. That is a big problem. They are building more pools then they can control....I believe that is a big problem for them.

Well it's too bad you had such a bad experience. It's just unfortunate it happened the way it did. When a company is that busy, then they are under bidding their jobs and steal from one to move the others forward and can't or don't know how to control the jobs without correct (good) supervision. I see it up here too.

Put it behind you and enjoy the water

I meant Shotcrete.

They are similar but shotcrete is always denser and more expensive.

That is my plan! ;o)

looks like it is all in the past now. My boyfriend put the lights in and I am now blissfully happy.

Dying over how gorgeous this is!!! I love everything about your new backyard! It's incredibly beautiful.

Oh, I see the lights you are talking about against the wall. They look fantastic there. You thought of every little design detail! The palm trees look perfect with this design.

Thank you I hope yours turns out fantastic. I am sure it will. What is your completion date?

Thank you. It should be 6 to 8 weeks, barring the unforeseen. I started our post about the build today on this forum. I'll update it as we progress. Thanks so much for sharing your experience and knowledge with me, and esp for mentioning Masterpiece to me. I like them very much so far.

Hi Animallover5. Do you know the name/manufacturer of the waterline tile you used? We're getting to the point we have to pick ours and I think we have it narrowed down, but want to see if we have a sample of yours in this box our PB gave us to mull over. Thanks!

Hi Julie,

Yes as a matter of fact It is called Silverstone and mine is ocean silver blue SVRBLUE. It is an Italian porcelain tile.

Your pool turned out gorgeous! We hired Mr. Carlos Pools in July and we still aren't finished to to much of the same delays and problems described above. Luckily we have a DropCam covering our backyard so when some of our tile "disappeared" we were able to email them proof of it walking off with Alex. So are we have not had a good experience with Mr. Carlos but I hope ours turns out as well as yours did. :)

Oh my god!!! same as we had. we had three neighbors one an ex-cop and their 11 year of daughter all watched as Alex and his buddy carried off my Travertine 19 pieces of pool coping. Gary and his son Tom called me a liar and told other customers I was a crazy Anaheim hills lady making wild accusations. They covered it up, but eventually had to admit and replace the travertine. 6 months of stress and aggravation and tears, but eventually the pain stopped and they left. It didn't need to be this way. We put cameras in after that! The cement guy did not use rebar and everything cracked within days everywhere...they also tried not to put the drains in around the pool. Check their work...the drains have to be connected...mine were not....we pulled up chairs and sat down and made them redo the drains. They still missed one. I am so sorry that you are going through this too. They took all the joy out of my pool for me. Don't use their pool start up guy Fred. Pick your own. He charged me $375 to pour two bottles of muradic acid into my pool. Apparently that is start up. Do it yourself.

We had our own concrete guy do the pool decking and he is amazing so we know everything he did is correct. However, we will definitely not use their pool start up people. Thank you so much for the tip! These people are horrible! They started the dig in July and it's not even close to being done. Alex installed our tile (glass tile) incorrectly with no waterproofing or expansion joints so we had to have them rip it out and replace at their cost (after much disagreement and threatening to turn them into the Contractors Board). We are now back to the pool shell and they are supposedly coming back tomorrow to reinstall the tile. However, this time we have representatives from the tile manufacturer and the manufacturer of the thinset/mortar/waterproofing system there to oversee their installation. It's been a total nightmare so far but seeing the pics of your gorgeous pool I have hope that it will all turn out okay (knock on wood)... I just wish I had seen your thread before we hired them!

they took 6 months with mine and then the spa leaked. I have big white rings around the spa floor and blue dye where they tried to find the leak. they also didn't finish the back of the pool, so I had to once again go to the contractors board. save all of your emails. take lots of pictures. Then say a prayer!!