No, a year to 14 months would be more normal for a custom home with that site complexity. And about 800-1M, depending on the impact studies and other environmental considerations that go with such a challenging site.

Would you prefer that the builder rushed and finished the house in 3 months? It's your house...Sophie has it right!

I think 10 months is very reasonable, especially for a hill side lot. As long as you see people actively working on your house on a consistent basis, you shouldn't be too worried. Get concerned and ask questions when a string of days or weeks go by without any progress (barring bad weather).

Time estimates are exactly that----estimates.

There are thousands of variables that can impact construction. Weather, inspections, sick days, equipment breaking, and on and on.

When I was a crew supervisor for Habitat for Humanity crews, one of the daily questions was: "What is the goal for today's progress?"

My answer was always: "To get done what we get done."

So, how many days has the weather impacted the work? A rain of a couple hours can delay foundation/grading work several days.

@Sophie Wheeler - It is a custom craftsman home and it is being built in the East Bay oOf CA so it is a pretty high cost of living area. Do you think that is a factor too when it comes to keeping timelines?

@BYHYU - I do see a couple of people working everyday so i do see something being done but the progress is extremely slow and i wonder if i am expecting too much. His estimate said 4.5 weeks for lower floor framing and is already 3 weeks in and close to 40% done. His pricing says he charges $X,XXX per week and that times number of weeks is his estimate for labor. My question is that, is it not in his best interest to try to adhere to his estimate so he doesn't have to pay his staff more and move on to the next item? Of course he cannot charge me more if something took longer but why is he not hiring more people to make it move faster? He has two employees working for him by the way so he is a pretty small shop.

@HandyMac, we have a 3-4 rained out days in the last 3 months of so but none of this rain was seen while grading or pouring the piers/grade beams; we only saw rain when we started to put mud sills on the already poured grade beams. My builder gets extremely defensive when i try to talk to him about deadlines. He said " I don't work on your schedule but on my schedule" or something to that effect the other day when asked why the framing is taking this long to compete. I asked him to hire more people and he said "I will hire when i feel like i need more people" and the conversation ended there.

Sounds like you are about to damage the relationship with your general contractor.

Are you on a time and materials construction contract?

Frankly I think you should leave your builder to do what he does best which is to build your house. We are finally starting to build our home and were given a timeline of 9 months to a year. I figure if Im in in 18 months or sooner I'm doing great. As others have said, things come up.

Also would you want your builder hiring some hacks off the street or continuing to work with people he knows and trusts?. You need to chill.

I don't mean to damage the relationship but it seems to me he doesn't
convince my wife and I why things are taking longer than expected. I
have to just assume he has very bad judgement when it comes to
estimating time for a project and the extra time is something that he
has to eat. It costs us some monies too since we are renting right now
and the longer it takes the more rent we have to pay. At the end of the
day i would rather pay a few months extra rent rather than have a home
hastily built. I just like to be kept in the loop that's all.

cpartist, congratulations to you! I have been following your progress on the other thread and its great you are finally starting. I am hoping everything goes smoothly for you. Yes, i probably need to chill but we have to shell out extra money to get our construction loan build phase extended and also the extra few months of rent.

Thanks on the congrats. They said they're going to build the house pad the end of this week. As I told keywest, I figure the end of NEXT week.

Chill! Our construction loan started in July so please don't tell me about that since we haven't even started building. It means a few dollars more on your loan when it's converted.

Whenever you do construction, it will almost always take longer than estimated. When I redid our condo, the estimate was 3 months. It took 6 months and there were even some things that needed to be fixed after we moved in.

No we don't like having to shell out more money for rent, but better that than a house that is falling down because it was improperly built.

@ Vigil - We have a contract not sure if its time and materials. He has laid out 5 phases and each phase has a $ amount associated with it and has a labor and materials portion to it. The labor is estimated based on time that he thinks will take. Basically a dixed price contract. If it takes more time, he will eat it.

Subs your contractor brings in have their own schedules -- they may have delays on other work they are doing. They are not going to drop things to come in on the contractor's schedule, or yours. Cpartist is right.

PS, i was supposed to be in by the holidays of 2016. I'm still waiting. I do see progress, but sometimes it does feel like molasses. I'd rather my GC bring in the best. (And yes, I do get impatient some days...)

Always assume things will take longer. At least the cost is remaining the same -- he gave me a number at the outset -- the little that is over are due to things I added after reading the forums here... (grin). (PS, yes I am paying in installments as work progresses.)

I think you had better check the language of your contract again. From your description above, it's not clear whether its time and materials (which may or may not include an "estimate" of time, labor and materials by phase) or fixed price (which doesn't include anything except the total fixed price, unless he is estimating a percentage complete by major phases for his billing and pay out purposes).

@cpartist - My construction loan started June 2015 and construction was stated to complete by Jan 1 2017 and it then converts. I guess that is clearly not going to be sufficient and will probably need 3-4 months more. Just curious what do they charge for extensions in your area and how many months at a time? If you're uncomfortable sharing that information it is totally understandable.

@artemis_ma - I guess it's a common thing to have delays in construction even though you have the best intentions, is what I am learning after i hear from you folks. Just curious, when did you break ground on the home and what part of the country are you building? Let me look up your progress on the other thread for pictures. Thanks for sharing.

@Virgil - It looks more like a time and materials contract to me. He sent me an email a month ago that there were cost overages for foundation, to which i replied saying we will not be paying any cost overages since the contract stated what was allotted for that portion. His response was something like this " I
will eat it if you will not help with these additional charges."

Well...if the contract is a fixed cost contract, then the only thing which matters is the fixed cost for the completed construction, as shown and specified in the construction documents. In order to received progress payments, some contractors call out a percentage or amount due at the completion of various phases. That does not change the final, fixed cost.

On the other hand, if it's time and materials, then monthly requests for payment are typically submitted, based on whatever the cost was, regardless of estimate (if any).

Check your contract language carefully.

I think you need to sit down with your builder and have an honest talk about timeline and additional costs ... explain how not knowing things makes you nervous and that you aren't judging his management skills. Don't just dismiss an email saying you won't pay ... meet with the builder face to face.

My experience with most building project is that it will take twice as long and cost twice as much from the first estimate! We built a large guest house and the estimate was 4 -5 months ... it was completed in 9 months.

I don't know your market, but here in the LA area, builders and all trades are completely booked with work. I tried to get an electrician a few weeks ago and no one wanted to come for a small repair project. When you have to wait for some subs to become available it will impact the building schedule.

I have one more bathroom to remodel and I am already on my contractor's schedule for next year.

Ground was broken mid May 2015. (Contract had been signed mid February but it took awhile to get permits in a small town where the officers required only work maybe half a day a week.) Rural western Massachusetts.

I would love to have a C of O by the holidays THIS year. Absolute work still needed for that: complete sheetrock in garage (against the wall of the house, fire code); deck out back (door drops off to no where); septic in and connected (hole is dug and has been inspected); propane heat in and connected, with all ducts in place. (Vents are in place in flooring for air-forced heating.)

Though I've built in six-eight mos., ten months sounds not unreasonable at all to me in your neck of the woods and with grading difficulties as well.

Dealing with subs is frankly hell on wheels as they, in turn, try to keep their schedules in line with constant turnover, contractors not on schedule, mis-shipped materials. Let alone working outside.

****

Just watching a 6,000 sq. footer going up down the street--foundation to roof in a six weeks. Site neat as a pin. That's the framing contractor I want. Off to leave my card now!

Hi susha we are also in the Bay Area and I would guess 10 months is optimistic for your size build on a hillside -- maybe you are in an area that doesn't require many inspections? We were about 14 months demo to CO (flat area no basement and we had very little rain over that winter). Good luck!

Given your location in perhaps the tightest housing market in the country, and one which typically has a lot of zoning/regulatory requirements, 10 months seems on the tighter side to me. When you spoke to references before hiring the contractor, what did they say about how well he stuck to timelines/budgets?

I think you've been overly optimistic. It's construction; it's construction boom now so all the builders and subs are overbooked and busy like hell; and it's California.

We didn't built-but we had a huge general remodel plus addition, no hillside, much smaller house..from the time they came and brought their blue port a potty with them-it's been year and a half..)) we're still not in the house

(the planning stage and the permits took 5 months before that-I don't count this time in)

some of this time no work was done at all. 3 weeks here, 3 weeks there..the builder merely had no one to send...

not in the very beginning-they weren't as busy as they are now. but now it's definitely a part of the story. it's hard to send people. especially good people..

he has 15 other projects, multi million dollar ones..who's going to get priority, how do you think? as cute as we are lol

and yes, we do have a second mortgage we've been paying all that time

more than that-since the whole mess started so my MIL could move in with us or at least to have an opportunity to do so whenever-after hosting her with us for a bit less than a year, we've decided to rent an apartment for her..she's amazing, it was just logistically hard as hell, with everybody having vastly different schedules and biological clocks.. So it's been two years of two mortgages and already half a year of paying for a rental..

..and when we move-we'll start on the landscaping lol.

I know I didn't add any useful information..just sharing my own experience. All the comments I have read-they're giving a very realistic picture for how it is, these days.

In April we finished a whole house remodel and addition not so many miles away from you. 3200 square feet. Flat lot. 8-10 month estimate. It took ten. Our GC was sure they could do it in eight. We were thrilled it only took ten.

@Vigil - The bank does inspections and pays out money based on what is complete. For example, if a task has been budgeted $100 and the bank inspector deems 20% complete, they will only disburse $20. The $100 final fixed cost does not change or I would rather not have it change. Not sure if that made any sense to you.

@chispa - It is same case here in the Bay Area as well. Contractors are so busy they will book you several months ahead of time and you play by their book. In our case, we didn't have massive delays but that is a factor and people don't even call back or arrogantly turn down projects because they always have another one to hop on. There was a time (2008/2009) when contractors would literally beg you to hire them when the economy went south.

@artemis_ma - 6 months is not too bad i guess. Hope you are able to spend Christmas in your new home.

@worthy - Yes, subcontractors do drive you up a wall sometimes. Especially because it is so busy and don't return calls for days.

@oaktown - We live in a highly regulated/zoned area so the inspections are second to none. The hillside home that we building does not even have a fire hydrant, so they are having us put a massive 10,000 gallon tank for fire suppression. Can you believe that? Perhaps this code is not enforced on my other 4 neighbors. Guess whose home they are going to come running for water when there is a fire?

@freeoscar - The references had good things to say about him. Although, the people i spoke to had smaller projects done with him not a complete house per say. The GC is 60 years old and doesn't do well with emails/texts. A little old fashioned i guess.

@aprilneverends - It's been a gruesome process to build in CA. There are so many regulatory bodies that can mess with you and neighbors even. I hope it's all worth it when its finally said and done. This builder of ours is not a big player but is probably working on one or two other projects. The problem is he is not hiring more people, maybe he is not comfortable working with someone new and trust is an issue because it unknown how a new employee will contribute positively to the outcome. Being in California and building a home and dealing with subs is a double whammy. The GC not following up with subs also does not help here.

@algesea - That sure did take a lot of time. Given that house was remodeled and not a complete build from the ground up i would imagine you were able to salvage some parts of the foundation and repurpose it?

My question to all of you is, did you do anything on your end when you realized that the build was taking longer than expected. Put pressure on the builder/incentive him with a bonus if finished early? Or just let him be and build the home on his schedule?

Would you rather have it right? Or would you rather have it fast?

A complicated build takes as long as it takes, regardless of the overly optimistic schedule put forth at the beginning. You have far too much left to go to start an adversarial relationship with your contractor now.

Since I was usually building on my own lots to my own plans, there was no bigger incentive than to cut my per day financing costs on the lot(s).

A purchaser's "bonus" to incentivize might well risk quality. Perhaps a better idea to have put it in at the contract stage.

Initially, we weren't going to add much square footage aside from enclosing a porch area already under the roof. When the estimates were crazy high we looked into adding a second story over part of the house. For the added cost of a new foundation to support the second story under that section, we gained 1000+ sq ft that we could really use. No sense in extra space if you don't need it. Overall, the remodel took us down to studs in all but one room, and even that got new wiring, flooring, window, etc.. The back of the house (L-shaped) was torn down to the ground, foundation removed, not one thing left. It was a big project. We were lucky it was completed within the original timeframe.

Throughout our build we had almost daily in-person on-site contact with our GC. He kept us fully informed about delays, any problems arising from city requirements, sub issues, and the few times we ran into added costs. We didn't put any pressure on because we always knew what was happening and why. Toward the end, I was so anxious for it to be done, to move out of my sister's house, to stop bleeding money, to be able to put my hands on my books when I needed them, I thought I was going to have a stroke. Seriously. My husband was more realistic than I was, and repeatedly talked me down. I never let the GC see how freaked I was. He was doing the best he could, and he had mad skills. It was a close thing some days, but the rudiments of decent manners kept me from being rude to our GC and subs.

If I had questions I asked, usually in an email followed up by conversation. I chose our GC from many well-qualified bidders because he was such a good communicator. Mutually respectful communication set the tone for a largely positive building process. I know not all builders are skilled communicators, in which case, the burden falls on the homeowner to get needed info as gracefully as possible. If you think that your GC is up to the job, avoid making him (or her) your adversary. Take good care of him and the folks on your site. They are building your home. Be observant, analytical, ask questions respectfully and be kind. And best of luck. However long it takes, I hope your house is amazing when it's finished.

We started in April. We're ready to be done.

You've already offended your builder, and refused to pay for things that you actually owe. It can not get much worse. You are likely to get the house you want to pay for, but it it is likely to be very far from the house you imagined it to be. You've destroyed any goodwill towards him doing anything but the exact letter of the contract. And you don't even know what that contract actually says. Train wreck.

Signs · More Info

@Sophie - i wish i could show you the contract but due to privacy reasons i would have to keep the information to a minimum here. The builder's first estimate was incorrect when we were signing the construction loan a year ago so we gave him the opportunity to bid it correctly after the detailed plans were all approved by the city and country. So, we have been through his process of going back and forth with him to make sure he has his numbers correct and been through various meetings to confirm that once we dial these numbers in it cannot be changed. He has agreed and said that if the costs go beyond what is indicated in the contract then he would have to eat it. The graphic makes a lot of sense!

No pressure-as long as the things are reasonable and explained to you. Pressure leads to various bad feelings, behaviours like defensiveness, and to mistakes. From both sides. Tiny example-the electricians were in a hurry to install the lights. I felt I'm pressured because they're in the hurry. Of course you look at that lighting fixture, when the person that puts it in, is on the ladder, and balancing there, and you feel you'd rather say something real soon. Result: then you, feeling double dumb, ask to shorten the chain. The chain is shortened, but you get reminded the GC just had to pay 100$ to his sub for that (it's all of course when things are far into the remodel, and you while still liking each other would rather part your ways already..))

When I don't feel like I'm being killed by stare, with other subs-I decide things that are to be decided on the spot, for 5 min longer, but then no mistakes, no additional charges, and nobody's feeling dumb.

Yes, one of my friends was able to finish her remodel in nine months(it was much longer than she wanted). Granted, much simpler than ours-we had to take the house down to the studs, dig a new foundation, framing, etc. Hers, while big, was contained into the house. (Bay Area by the way). Their GC was a good friend of her husband. She asked to apply pressure..Well, they did finish in nine months. But the long-time friends aren't friends no more, stopped talking.

Some people perform great under pressure. I believe builders are in that category. But there is plenty a pressure in this job already; the builders are ready to such and such amount of pressure. Chose wisely. And yes, it's much easier on the customer when things are being explained to you..we do have it with our GC, and I think that was one of the most important things that kept this boat floating.

And-what algeasea said))

See, I've never understood why Good and Cheap would be slow. A good job takes however long it takes - if you want it faster (meaning more workers or guys working OT) I see why it would cost more. But how slower than it should take results in a lower price never made sense to me.

Think about it - you hear of things being on time and on budget. or over time and over budget. I can't think of anything being described as over time but under budget.

freeoscar - you just answered your own question. If you want it fast and good, you pay more for the extra labour. If you want it cheap and good, you pay the one or two guys instead of the six or eight, and they do it more slowly. Happened with our house: we had a good builder, not too expensive, but he did all the framing himself with the help of a labourer, so it took longer.

our home took exactly 51 weeks to complete, it was a cash build (building on the builders dime -so you know he completed it as quickly as possible) we built in south texas and had several rain delays the house is 2300 square ft heated and cooled 1900 square ft of porch and garage (finished) the day the moving van arrived, the builder was finishing up two pieces of ceramic tile in the bathroom, seems the flooring/tile people didn't order enough all of the delays were due to waiting for subs patience is the key having a good rapport with your builder is absolutely essential

I havent read the responses , but we started September of 2015 and still not done. Very slow, but done right.

We built a 3000 sq ft (or so, can never remember if the square footage includes the garage or not) house in the mountains on a hillside lot and it took 18 months +. This will be our retirement house, so we didn't need fast, and we made that clear to all of the builders that we "interviewed". But it did take longer than planned, mostly due to unforeseen issues. We built (intentionally) right before the construction industry started going again, so subs were still available. The GC is a small one-man shop, a great guy - he's now a friend, so most work was done by him, and all of his subs.

Biggest delays we experienced: turned out that the architect hadn't provided the results of the ground tests (whatever they're called), so the builder didn't know until excavation that we would need a deeper hole and more gravel etc. due to the soil composition. Very snowy winter, which which was great for skiing but caused all sorts of delays because the snow started early on one end, and took forever to melt on the other. Then a rainy summer, which we don't usually have. We just rolled with it.

I will say that our GC was good at letting us know about delays generally, especially the impact that the snow was having. I agree that if you can nicely tell your GC that it makes you nervous not to get updates or status reports, maybe he'll be better at letting you know what's going on.

Also, our GC isn't great with technology either, but I discovered that he was much more likely to answer my texts than my emails. So I communicated mostly by texts and phone calls (though my personal preference, due to my profession, is emails). Ask your GC what method of communication works best for him.

I am surprised the bank signed on for a 6 month construction loan. If they have any clue as an banking institution they would know that a semi-custom or custom home in So Calif. that is over 3000 sq ft would almost never be completed in 6 months, no matter who told them this. Again, poor advice and info from the beginning, from the timeline to the lack of awareness of the type of contract, to lack of construction practices. Now you are adding more info and honestly the whole situation seems a bit puzzling not for what you have not told us but for what you have not told us.

Private financing from a family member might do a 6 month construction loan, but no bank underwriter who has ever dealt with construction would ever be that naïve. 12 months is fairly standard for a median priced build. Jumbo builds usually have higher rates, and longer terms.

A hillside build in SF has got to be one of the more expensive endeavors that this board has ever seen, and all bets are off on the ultimate end cost. Triple to quadruple the heartland ''norms'' in costs wouldn't be out of the question.

Yeah, a lot unsaid here on design, documentation, and how this ever broke ground in the first place given the loosey goosey nature that it appears to be.

Thank you for all your comments.

@vwtyler - I will try to learn from what you have shared. Having a good relationship with the builder is absolutely essential is what i hear given we are so far away from finishing our home.

@millworkman - I mentioned the loan started June 2015 not this year. When we secured this loan we had just started to work on getting this through the city and finally broke ground end of July this year.

Before you go any further you should find out what the extension fees are on your loan. Most banks will extend the loan but some charge a pretty hefty extension fee on top of the interest charges. These fees can be as much as 3 times the interest charges, so please make sure you are informed about them before you get to them.

You might even have to redo the construction loan at another institution at a higher interest rate to avoid the fees. These are often hidden fees that are buried in your contract. The bank may just tell you that extensions are no problem and take the amount out of your loan, which reduces the amount you can spend on the house. So, again, being informed is important.

Finally, I think it is best to remember that it isn't your job to watch the quality and schedule in construction, it is the general contractor's job. It is your job to create incentives and an environment that makes him want to do that. Personally, I think that works best with a carrot and a stick. Two compliments per complaint goes a very long way to getting what you want. I know developers who are absolutely atrocious to work and they can build nice projects, but they have to work harder and pay more for the same results. A little empathy and trust can make your project better.

That extension fee sounds fine. There are extension fees that are a couple of thousand per month which can get crazy.

we gave our bunglow to be build by the builder , the contract was he can take 50% of the property, in return he will build 4 rooms, 2 he will take and 2 we will keep , this way we wont end up paying anything and get our two rooms , its been 2 yrs we are still getting the possesion, builder says his money is stuck and always gives excuses , what shud we do? we are worried , he is going to take the whole place for himself, this is granvel from mumbai

You should start a new post with a title that applies to your issue. Many people won't click on an old link or reply. Good luck! Do you have a written contract?

Property and contract law in India is wild and crazy. When in doubt, posession is 9/10ths of the law. Seek competent legal advice. But dont give up posession.