They should have cut the money off a LONG time ago. They're used to mommy and daddy bailing them out. They don't have to strive for anything. What's with the wives, and them allowing the men (?) to do this?
Leslie

One of my friends daughter has a husband like that. makes my friend want to pull her hair out. But she just "can't" say no, and keeps bailing that family of 5 out.

Yes, I think, tough love is needed.

Moni

No matter how well you raise your kids, they will be what their genes have made them, some lazy, some ambitious. Some will grow up because mom and dad or a woman will stop supporting them. Others will find another woman who is desperate enough to have a man that she will put up with it. I think genes are the bigger part of it and the fact that parents have more money than out parents had and they take advantage of that. Somewhere along the line pride and integrity seem to have been lost.

I think you reap what you sow. The parents have enabled these young men. If they want it to stop - they have to cut them off.

I fully intend to pay for my kids education (up to a bachelor degree). We pay for food, cars, insurance, cell phone, etc. in high school and college.

BUT! They pull their weight around here. They are expected to contribute to the work on the farm. They started working for us when they were very young. By age 12 they could do what a grown adult could do - with safety restrictions.

They are also expected to pull good grades. They are not punished for poor grades, but they are also not rewarded for good grades.
We are so happy we can provide a good lifestyle for them - but we are adamant about a good work ethic. It is important and never too late to start.

I really see this as the parents fault.

I see that a lot as a social assistance administrator. I see generational clients, clients who have had circumstances beyond their control bring them to us, and then I see the group that you are referring to. These people were spoiled by their parents and have simply not developed a work ethic. The parents rationalize this by saying things like "I want to give them a better life than I had and "I have to help him because there are no jobs out there".

Parents who take that attitude are really doing a disservice to their children. They just do not reach their potential, and this affects the quality of their lives and their families' lives. I don't know why the wives would put up with this.

I believe that people with the attitude of these young men are the exception, rather than the rule, as my kids are in that age group, and they are self sufficient as are all of their friends. In fact, a few of the kids who have degrees, are working in low level positions while working on getting their careers on track.

Well I agree with Stargazzer.

I have 3 sons, they have all been raised the same.

My oldest one is lazy. He's 17 now, no license, cell phone removed for 2 F's. We have a vehicle in the driveway that had been waiting for him to turn 16. He was told 3.0 or better and we pay your way while you're in Highschool for Driver's Ed, insurance and whatever. He didn't do that..so now it's his dime. He's had odd short term summer jobs here and there, but likes to blow his money.
He wanted to play summer ball, which is several hundred dollars, plus alot of travel. With 2 F's still on the books, I said...I'm not doing it!
We happened to have run into and old frield Saturday. He asked about the boys and how old..when we mentioned that we had the 17 yr old..He said oooh I'm looking for a kid to work with me. HARD WORK...So we took his number and gave it to the boy..Told him if he called Mr. Wes, and they arranged work..that he could go to the practice for Summer Ball, but that he had to tell his coach that he was working too, and that he'd pay for his fee as he could. And to accept if his coach didn't agree to those terms. We'll see..

I WAS utterly SHOCKED that he called yesterday..and then Mr. Wes came right over picked him up and he worked 5 hours yesterday for him.

Maybe finally a light???

And then there is my 12 yr old that saves every penny, has big plans for life, strives for straight A's (on his own!), and been wishing he could have a job for years. LOL

We have some friends like that. They are about the age of one of our nephews age. Strange I say, I just don't get this situation. Very nice, both are very well educated. Actually, the wife just went back to school for her doctorate. (did I spell that right? My brain in my older years does not always work well) Richard had a job with a hardware store, then teaching adult education so they could get their GED. Now you have to understand this guy has his masters. Now he sits at home taking care of their 5 year old son while his wife goes out and earns the living. Am I just old fashioned or what? Even when they didn't have a child he only worked part time and she was full time and going to school, so what gives? I guess it is none of my business, but that kind of man would definitely not be for me!!!

"Now he sits at home taking care of their 5 year old son while his wife goes out and earns the living."
Rthummer-I am probably a little old fashioned too because when DS and DDIL chose that path I thought it was a little wrong!LOL However,in some cases,as in theirs,she can make twice as much money as he could,working less hours and pretty much choosing her own schedule.He stays home with the twins but believe me,it isn't just "sitting at home with the kids"!LOL Think about it,kids are a lot of work! I figure if that is what they have chosen to do and they are satisfied doing it,it's none of my business.

I don't see any difference between a man staying home to take care of children and a woman doing the same.

But on the orginal topic - men who refuse to work; the parents should not be all that surprised - they basically raised them to be sponges. I've seen the same thing with young women. They never give a thought to the idea of being financially independent. I could not imagine putting myself in that situation. It would terrify me.

This is not only this age, but look at the 40-50 year old.
I have friends who have relatives that don't seem to find a job, because it is not what they are trained for or want to do. Especially in the computer fields
These same people will not even do volunteer work, because of what-ever, not realizing that there are occasions that volunteer work will lead to paid works.
I do have friends that are paying most of the bills, but their kids do spend the summers out in the fields, or have some part time jobs. Mainly it is because the fees and expenses for most colleges are way out of line and need to be adjusted, but until the Alumni and public demand changes it will never happen.

I am sorry, I should have been more specific. He has never done much more work than part time and she has put her self through school and worked full time, even Before they had children. Did I say that, or did I miss saying that? They have been married over ll years. He (in my opinion) is ruled by his mother, in some kind of way, his dad died when he was young, and I know she has always felt bad about that, the father left them very well off. She gives HIM spending money for his son and him to go on outings during the day, mother and son go on day trips with his son. Like I say, that is definently not my kind of man, and I would feel left out. I had rather marry a man who had to scrape for a living amd was ambitious,than live with a man who had money and was lazy. This is my way not everyone's way. I am old fashioned but that is me, and it is not for everyone. I still have my opinion and it still can be expressed here. Thank you.

The situation mentioned in the OP is totally the parents' fault.

They taught the boys that everything will be handed to them.

It's not about laziness....

You are right, western pa luann, I see your point. I understand, and point taken. Thanks for explaining. :)

Every generation has its share of shiftless weasels.

I am always shocked at some parents coddling their grown kids and going in debt or spending retirement funds to help kids get out of debt or make their car or mortgage payments. When are the kids going to learn to be responsible? Not all young men are coddled these days. The parents don't do the kids any favors in the long run when they continue to give them money or let them live at home no charge.

My husband could say no to his son, but had a real problem saying to his daughter's. One of his son in laws was arrested for rape of a minor and he had the nerve to ask for $3,000. for a retainer fee. I asked him where he was going to get the rest of the money, it could be thousands? I told him we couldn't do that.

BTW, His minor son was charged with the same crime, but lived out of state and they wouldn't or couldn't extradite him. The son in law plea bargained and got off with assault, I think. He is not on the list of sexual predators.

"These men came from good homes, and good parents and had a good education."

I couldn't disagree more. They have been given everything and more. They were not taught responsibility and the big shame here is not being taught the satisfaction in accomplishing a task or earning something. Without these types of learning, it's poor parenting, poor education and therefore a poor home. There's more to raising a kid than food and housing. (And designer clothes, cars, cell phones, sports equipment, etc)

Often the younger are the ones who are more responsible. I see it often. The older are usually so exciting to the new, of usually young parent that they spoil the daylights out of them, give them too much attention, attend to their every whim, where the ones who come along later are more boring or whatever.

I don't suggest that kids shouldn't get any "perks", but I'm a firm believer they should have chores, especially if there's an allowance. Want a bigger allowance? More chores and/or more responsibility in those chores and if you fail, there's penalties. Don't take out the garbage, mow the lawn, wash clothes, keep room clean, etc, then no allowance. Sick leave permissible when you're sick but unlike others, no calling in sick and going to the mall.

I truly believe this is a root cause of much of our societal troubles, crime and out and out disrespect.

They have no pride...

Parents are enablers, simple as that.

I work at what many would call a man's job, loading trucks at UPS. I hired in with 5 strong, young men, at least 12 years younger than me 3 years ago. They were all gone within the first year. I guess they all lived at home and didn't have bills to pay.

We can't ever really know if it's nature or nurture, but if they had to eat what they earned and provide the roof tht would cover them and walk if they didn't earn enough to pay the car payment and use a pay phone rather than a cell phone, then maybe they would be more interested in working for a living, then maybe even working for a good living.

But, some people simply would rather not - I don't feel that it necessarily has anything to do with the upbringing every time -there are some people who are ambitious enough to do well and ambitious enough to do *very* well

- and then there are some people who would really rather do without than to work for improvement. I don't get this second group, but I have a feeling they have always existed in society. There are people who have landed in prison and have adjusted very well because they have three free hots and a cot. It's simply a segment of society that exists for unknown reasons.

Even if the parents had seriously pampered Jr enough to lead him to the lazy path , by the time one is in his late 20's I think it's rather late to be putting the blame for how he turned out on mommy and daddy - he is simply not a person who has a lot of pride if he continues not to self support or contribute equally to a household. By that time, he is even ignoring heavy peer pressure as most people at this age have begun to really work and achieve by this time and look down on those who don't make the effort - this is more choice than anything else. It's how I see it, anyway.

I honestly see nothing wrong with stay at home daddies - but once the kids are in school, he has to get out there just like the rest of us do once the kids are in school - if he doesn't, there are serious problems I think.

Lots of interesting points of view here -

My friends daughter is a doctor and when her husband lost his job, he became a stay home dad. He was doing a good job and they were both happy with the situation. Until his wife found money missing from their accounts. He was giving some of the money she earned to his family. I imagine he had to go to work after she kicked him out.

I think the kind of situation you are describing is relatively rare. I have heard of men staying home with the children if their wives had better paying jobs. In the case you describe, the boys (not men) are simply spoiled and entitled. It must be difficult for you to watch this going on.

"She said, "He won't like that and he'll hate me." "

I think this is the biggest problem. Worrying what your kids will think of you. Wanting them to be your friend. Giving them all they want so you won't look like the bad guy.

When our two went to Univ., my ex-, their Mom (head of food service at a substantial hosp.) paid about a third, they paid about a third, and I paid about a third. That remained in place, without a big deal being made about grades. I think that daughter did better in Univ. than son - she was taken on after grad. as outreach person from the school to contact head people in the industry, to fine tune the univ. courses to the needs of the market.

She proposed to her husband (of about 5 years) and put more into buying their home than he ... and they lost money on selling it, I think. She recently bought another ... and kept her name throughout her years. She's been more productive during her working years, it seems to me. Son had some rather big ideas, earlier, but found that champagne tastes didn't jibe too well with beer pocketbook, so has reduced his wants some. He returned to his Mom's home to live for a period - a year or two? a few years ago, but has had his own apt. for several years, since. He's an entertainer, and works mainly in summer, but earlier scraped through during winter. When their Mom suffered from cancer for most of a year, she chose daughter (resident in Canada at the time) as executor of her estate.

His Mom chose to leave him some assets directly following her death ... but set up a trust fund for him ... that'll run out, I think, about the time that he might normally retire ... and he has next to no pension credits being built up.

I (and I think others, apart from his Mom) have suggested that he find other work to supplement the rather insubstantial and seasonal income which he has ... but he has, let's say, resisted those suggestions.

He's developed some great plans for some self-employed systems ... but short on the implementation.

He hasn't had a car for years, nor a licence for some time (related to a physical limitation, I think, but he's working on getting that retreaded).

I have enabled him by driving him to various distant entertainment projects, for which he has paid compensation ... but a carnie friend that he's developed does that, as well, and he pays better ... but son figures that "he's not family" ... and I have made it clear to son that he should compensate fairly, to give him an idea of actual costs related to carrying on one's life/business: can't expect anything like a free ride (when he finished Univ,. over 20 years ago).

There has been some discussion of "picking up one's own marbles" on occasion.

He hasn't shown much interest in girls (guys, either, as far as I know), but ...

... has recently found a widow with about three kids in whom he has shown some interest. Her daughter and friend, with child, recently returned to Mom's home ... and daughter lets friend care for child, while she goes out. Son has been finding this rather frustrating ... as it bugs Mom ... and her frustration bugs him ... and daughter figures it's none of his business ... but Mom says it is, as when she gets antsy, it carries over into her (recently established) relationship with son.

Join the real world, son!

That's about enough I think.

ole joyful

I don't know why the parents are shocked at the way their sons turned out. That is exactly how they raised them to be! They didn't instill in them the work ethic, gave them what they wanted, not just what was needed. So now at this late stage they are disappointed and shocked. Go figure. They do need to stop being the money tree to the sons. No giving them money, no paying for necessities, nothing. I can see this is going to take a while. The mom still doesn't have the right attitude and is just going to prolong the sons' inability to grow up. But if she wants them to change she is going to have to change also. NancyLouise

I was one of those kids you are posting about. I was extremely spoiled and was given everything I asked for from my parents. I never had to do a chore. When I was in school I didn't have to do homework or even go to class if I didn't want to go. When my father died when I was 12, it got even worse. I was in HS and talked on the phone all night to my friends and never opened a book. My grades were terrible. I had a really hard time getting and staying in schools. I was never taught how to study or complete a project. It's a miracle that I graduated college. I moved out of my mother's home several times and she always took me back. Did I mention I had a trust fund?
My life turned around when I was 24. I got fired, totaled my car and my fiance dumped me. I called the bank to tell them to send me more money and they said, "you are broke". That's the day things changed for the better. I didn't know what a budget was, only that I needed to be on one. I finally learned my lesson and today I am a responsible and capable adult. I save 50% of my income and have had the same job for 28 years.
My life was very difficult because my parents did not give me the tools to be a responsible adult. You ask why are these kids lazy? For the same reason I was lazy. Their parents spoil them.
Donna