Immediately there are several responses that say ''If you expect us to help you, you need to post your layout plans so we can pick them to shreds, tell you they're all wrong, and inform you that you stupidly wasted $50K on your cabinets and appliances.''

warmfridge, I'm gonna need a link to those. I don't think I recall any such posts in response to a sink question.

And when it comes to purchases, I'd love to see some of the high maintenance posters here wander over to Appliances. They'd get caught in the swordplay (not a fencing reference) between people debating commercial microwaves, of all things, and burned to bits on on an open-closed hob flame war. Their tears would be recognized as a sign of weakness, and the pack would move in for the kill. In Appliances, no one can hear you scream.

Since I use my iPad, excuse the run paragraphs, grammar , spelling etc.
Ok, from now on I won't use more than one exclamation point haha.
I agree with honey church.

I would hate to think what my kitchen looked like without everyones help.

Marcolo,
I was using ''sink'' as an example, but there are plenty of threads here, including one within the past week, where a new poster inquired about one specific thing and had their entire reno criticized, even after it was too late to do anything about the criticisms. Again, not helpful, IMHO.

And you're right about Appliances. One needs an asbestos-lined suit of armor to play in their sandbox.

I'm drawing a blank but will trust your recall. The one rule that seems inviolable to me is, don't attack after the money has been spent and nothing can be done. I saw one fairly tasteful sorta vintage kitchen posted a while back. No, it wasn't super-period, and yes, the original kitchen was more charming. But it was perfectly nice, respected the house, and p.s., it was DONE. Wouldn't you know it, the very last comment was a full frontal assault--this is the kind of reno that has none of the charm of the original, you're a phony, you've ruined that old kitchen, etc.

What's the point of that?

caryscott, you heard me right. Boulders. Previous owner built a rockery around a birdbath and I have other plans for the area. DH would have helped me if I had asked but he usually tells me that the way I want to do it is not how he would do it. Much easier just to do it myself. I get it done much quicker that way. I am very careful of my back.

I can understand lurkers being reluctant to post to threads. This forum is a bit overwhelming when you first come to it. I am pleased that people who have lurked on the forum gathering ideas have taken the time to post their finished kitchens and give back to the community by saying thank you!

Does anyone remember the "Best in Class" thread on the appliances forum?

Yikes! Warmfridge, I don't think I've seen that one. I agree that it's important to read the whole question, because, especially newbies, but others as well, folks will start a story, then tell at the end they just want to know about a sink. I often lurk when I'm really tired, but won't answer questions when I'm not sure what's being asked.

The one I've seen a number of times is, "We have all the cabinets in the garage, but what do you think of our layout?" At least they're not already installed. :) Better late than never.

On layouts, part of the expertise of people here is that many of them really cook and care about the easy of use of a kitchen. If your layout can't stand being picked apart, it probably has problems. If it has problems, don't you want to know now? If you decide problems or no you like the layout, wouldn't you want to know that too?

I am constantly impressed by how well my kitchen flows and functions. I'm actually quite good at space planning, but I wouldn't have nearly as good a plan without all the help and picking apart I got here. I was able to model the problematic parts, and had some of my more "interesting" ideas savaged, rightfully. The process is immensely worthwhile, so I just don't understand why someone wouldn't want that kind of help, yet several times in the last month or two I've heard complaints about people picking apart a layout. There's no need to do that to pick a sink, but up until the counters are on, it's not too late to fix something if it's a big problem. Maybe that's what the people answering with layout advice to the sink thread were thinking?

I'm terrified of the Appliances forum! My skin is simply not thick enough. So I never go there, problem solved.

I'm not afraid of this forum though, quite the opposite. I value the objective, truthful advice I have received here (particularly when it is delivered with humour and eloquence). Early on in my design I tried to post my lay out (I was hopeless with grids and lay out software). I got some honest advice that smarted a little - at the beginning I think I did just wanted approval and validation. I got over the hurt quickly (it was silly) and heeded much (although not all) of the advice provided. My kitchen is better for it. If people had just told me what I wanted to hear I would have made mistakes I'm sure I would regret today. Please don't let this forum turn into just a place for pats on the back and validation. (Although I agree, when the poster is clearly stressed and posting about a difficult problem with their GC or cabinet maker - tread gently. At those times people just need support, friendly advice and sympathy).

I'm not so sensitive anymore I guess - even when Marcolo disses the housing stock in my Country/province! Thing is, he was absolutely correct (again).

marcolo - taking pictures of the dents (more precisely: the-zero-dents-except-for-the-new-one) is a great idea - thanks. And you are of course right about all the time and energy folks put into their responses to help others....there is a limit. And frankly, as a beggar I feel perfectly willing to not be choosy.

If someone posted right now: "Sallysue, you are some kind of idiot for putting your floor in last" I would have to laugh and agree and wait for the next person to say "Oh honey, I did that and it was just the right way to do it...." The truth is that once this reno started - I am not actually present for the work - it is all somewhat out of control. I don't have the luxury of second-guessing every darn thing even if I knew what I was actually guessing -- that is why I was so grateful that the first thing someone posted when I put up my original elements (before they were all ordered) was "I don't think that will work."

It was, as I recall, a guy, not to put too fine a point on it.

He was seconded by boxerpups and her pictures, bless her, and I was onto a whole new scheme. One that I look at every day and feel delight.

As it happens, the people who disliked my colors were VERY polite about it, but I don't care if they hit me over the head with "Eeewww - seriously?" I am just grateful for the free advice. No one had any stake in their ideas, they just gave them from their designer hearts (even though my cabinets are just regular small-town Midwestern framed cabinets, no one judged them, they were a done deal). It was a lovely thing. I asked for help, I got it, I would send flowers if I could.

Lavender, as for my current sad state here in Cement Board Hell, thanks for the tea and sympathy. You are very kind. I will be REALLY glad when this is over and I can go back to looking at the sunlight in the trees while stirring a pot of something, anything, on the stove.

You really think it's a guy girl thing, don't you? I see some of that, although of course I know you don't mean to say every member of a sex rigidly follows his or her assigned role. There's some classic saying I don't remember, but the gist is that when a woman complains about a problem, she really wants sympathy and attention but her husband or boyfriend just tries to give her a solution. I think the relevance here is not whether this model is true, but some posters openly believe it to be true, and--surprise surprise--think it's the guys who should change. It kind of reminds me of women who always expect the toilet seat to be down but the lid up, for their maximum convenience. Um, no, the lid is down so everybody is treated equally, and plus, as a side benefit, this way you don't get a Kleenex box accidentally floating in your toilet.

I'm glad to see this brought up because I am one of the people who lurked for some time doing my research, then came and started asking questions. I had a nice response for the most part, so I felt I wanted to participate and give back. I started trying to respond when others asked for help...but when I did, I was basically blown off by a "regular" who told me that my opinion was wrong and that their opinion was the only way to go.

It wasn't that I was hurt, because it wasn't even my original post, it was that I felt disrespected. Someone asked for opinions (and the majority of what we're sharing IS opinion) and I gave mine based on my experience (aren't we looking for a variety of opinions here?). To have a "regular" tell me that my opinion was wrong and theirs was right was very off-putting. After not responding to posts for a while, I tried again and will continue to. I've gotten tons of great information here and I want to give back. But honestly, before answering a post I always wonder if I'm going to get blasted by someone again telling me my opinion is wrong or worthless, or that what I'm saying is "stupid."

I somewhat enjoy the fun snarkiness that goes around because it's amusing, but I don't enjoy disrespect or downright meanness.

(And thanks for all the help even if you didn't know you were helping in the past, GW Forum.)

marcolo - I do think that men tend to speak/think more directly, in general, to be more solution-oriented and to look for universal moral principles to guide them. Research shows women tend to be more relationship oriented - to care more about the process and how people feel about it than about the actual outcome. This used to be regarded as moral relativity and inferior, Carol Gilligan and others argued that it is a higher level of moral development that looks at community and interdependence as crucial values, rather than "Truth" or "Hard Work."

Thus, a woman might care more about hurting your feelings while a man might care more about setting you straight. Not always, of course, and not genetic - at least I am pretty sure it is cultural.

I don't think one is better than the other, but I think it is interesting how different perspectives shine through even in this medium.

I'm fairly new here and haven't been around long enough to have seen all the ups and downs, ins and outs, and/or some of the behaviors that are being discussed in this thread. But I am overwhelmingly in awe that this question was raised and is being discussed in such an open, honest way. Folks taking responsibility for posting when they're not at their best. Folks saying "maybe I shouldn't take it so personally." And more. I really respect the people I have seen here, and while I might feel a little nervous to post sometimes, I feel this is a great place to be. I'm eager to post more - questions, requests for advice, and opinions/answers (when I think they might be worth something).

More coming from me soon; plans approved, permit in hand, waiting on a cabinet plan I can post here - hoping you all give it a good once over.

Forgot -- for the record - I agree that the toilet seat and lid should be down. I only whine if the seat is up and I fall into the toilet along with the Kleenex box.

i have not read through this entire thread, so PLEASE forgive.

anyway, i've been here for five(?) or maybe six(?) years already. when i first posted i didn't appreciate the beating i took on the appliance forum (yes, it can be rough over there!) nor the advice on the building forum that i seek marriage counseling OR the rake through the coals when i was upset at trespassers on my property ...but i'm a big girl. i can take care of myself and i also feel i am able to conduct myself appropriately. most of the time. okay, sometimes.

i have no idea what exactly prompted this thread, but really, must there be an entire discussion that makes people feel bad as they are left to wonder, "did i say something?" or "i hope they're not talking about me!". because honestly, i don't have all the time in the world to drop in -and when i do i limit myself to respond only when i really feel i have something to contribute.

so. to ease my mind: i am sorry if i have offended anyone. or if i wasn't pleasant enough. or if i didn't provide an answer that was helpful. and finally, for the love of GOD. i. am. sorry. about. the. roosters.

and thank GOD as well for posters who i always LIKE to read because they ARE completely honest and funny and most of all, knowledgeable. and if any of you are generous enough with your time to comment on any of my posts: i thank you and beg, PLEASE don't worry about being nice or politically correct or some brand of artificial sweetener.

have i offended?

I have to say that given all the terrible things I'm reading about the appliances forum, I find it funny that whenever a newbie posts an appliance question on this forum, someone posts a response like, "You might get more information if you post this on the appliances forum."

To: Ms ee katekouros

Your post is important to us. We would like to reply to you, but you must first classify your post as required under the new forum procedures.

Would you please [check the applicable categories and suboptions].

/_/ I'm ready - give it to me good! I certify that I am [check one] /_/ a man /_/ a woman pretending to be a man /_/ a manly sort of woman.

/_/ Tell me that it is and/or will be [check one] /_/ pretty /_/ timeless /_/ stunning /_/ all of those things and so much more.

/_/ I am [check one] /_/ sad /_/ mad /_/ been had. I would like [check one] /_/ a solution /_/ hugs /_/ money.

After you have made these selections, we will be pleased to respond to your post. Thank you. Any offense was non-intentional and we disclaim all liability.

Dratted no edit button. The last should have read /_/ lawyers /_/ guns /_/ money. I can't believe I forgot my Warren Zevon. RIP, Excitable Boy.

Great, JL.

Don't forget 'elegant' and 'tasteful'.

Sorry to hijack. Hard to control myself. When I saw that the 'elegant' and 'tasteful' twins were missing, I knew I had to break all the old rules and new rules, bust right in to add these essentials. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Is anyone really still awake? Don't you have screaming, neglected, children? Is their homework done? Haven't you had enough? Oh, I get it, we still haven't named names or given examples.

May you find peace. Just pick one, air or water.

Have you offended? kateskouros you bet you have! After all this time I am going to finally tell you what I really think of you. I am taking the kid gloves off and I am finally going to let you have it. I doubt there is enough room in a single thread to list all kateskouros' transgressions over the years. You have some nerve coming into this thread and making that kind of post. I have been waiting for an opportunity to take you down a peg. I hope your ready because your getting your wish, here it comes:
Hi! How are you? I got nothing.

I feel the same in that my advice to folks who don't like me is: "get in line your going to have a long wait". However I do think this type of thread can be good and cathartic for the Forum.

The appliance forum is full of people who know every single detail about every appliance and who can be a great source of help. If I ever get to the point that I know that much about appliances, as a consumer and not an appliance expert for hire, then just plain kick me in the rear and tell me to get a life. I know there are people for just about every hobby, but debating appliances has to be one of the odder ones, IMHO. I was immersed in learning about appliances until I had ours bought. It is not a forum I will be revisiting over and over and lurking/posting in.
Now, as for kitchens and the decorating forum, there are interesting concepts, pretty things to ogle and I can see why people stick around here for enjoyment.

Our reno had gone through so many changes before a hammer was ever lifted and continues to have changes up to and including today (and beyond). This forum has taught me so much and I continue to come away having learned something no matter how long I am here and how much I have researched. I cannot imagine how our kitchen would have turned out if I had not found this forum. It would have certainly cost more, looked entirely different and would not have worked out so well. I almost feel that there should be a brand stamp on it, like the GH seal of approval or a nameplate saying TKO because that is the biggest feature of the kitchen as a whole. I am grateful for the knowledge shared here and often, the laughs as well. It really helps to have somewhere to vent about things because people IRL do get the glazed look as mentioned above when they hear about day 1,000 of our project. They can't understand why something like hardware can be so vital because they looked at one store display and picked the one they liked best when they did their kitchen. No one I know has put the time and effort in that everyone here does. That may mean we are the nutty ones, but at least we are all similarly affected and have great kitchens ;)

I may be accused of being blunt sometimes, but I usually say what I can't in my real life, because as a real estate agent, 90% of the time, I need to be diplomatic no matter how awful something is. I can let my hair down with co-workers and some clients/customers, but one does need to tread carefully much of the time. I wish the people who have perpetrated massive crimes against their houses had come here to get advice before going so horribly wrong. Years ago my mother wanted to put a clashing carpet (yes, I said carpet) in her bathroom. I tried to talk her out of it, but she went ahead. 2 years or so later she admitted how awful it was and put in some nice tile. If she had been on the GW bathroom forum, maybe someone else could have steered her right (of course, this was a decade or so before the internet was omnipresent, lol). She may have listened more to others (many others in this case) than to a family member. It is easier to get advice from someone who you do not have a real world relationship with. Like the mil example above, what can be perfectly well meant, can come across differently depending on who says it.

We should all be grateful that someone risked being offensive because they cared enough to take the risk. It is much easier to yes someone to death than to be honest if you are afraid of hurting feelings. Let's worry more about being honest and less about whether someone has thin skin. It is one nice feature of the internet that we can be more real sometimes in a setting like this. Think back to the biggest decorating/building mistakes you have ever seen and then think of how those might have been avoided if someone had told the emperor that his clothes were non-existent.

HOLY CR@P! caryscott, i was seriously afraid to continue reading. no, REALLY. seriously. SCARED.

and while the appliance forum is somewhat frightening, there is a chance you could get lucky and score yourself some really good advice. it doesn't come easy but hey, you have to take chances in this life if you want to come out ahead.

johnliu: please edit to include: a trans gender man taking hormones to be more of a woman, saving up money after the kitchen reno to become a full fledged woman

OR

a trans gender woman taking hormones to be more of a man, saving up more money after the kitchen reno to become a full fledged man.

(i felt it necessary to expand this rant to include and offend equally, any and all segments of the population.)

and if you want/need any info on appliances, go over there and post:

"i am building a large family home and need to furnish it with the latest and greatest. i would like two of everything. cost is no issue. i like stainless. what should i get"

yeahhhh ...that should make for some great big fun.

OK. About the Appliances Forum. Hey. You guys. C'mon. I must defend it. I cannot believe how people in this thread are creating some kind of demon forum out of the Appliances Forum. For every thread like that awful "Best in Class" one that was mentioned, there are HUNDREDS of helpful ones. Try going into any appliances store and getting unbiased knowledgeable advice from a salesperson--good luck with that. But there are so many people on the Appliances Forum who are incredibly knowledgable. Just unwinding the ventilation and exhaust for your kitchen needs a Phd, but there are so many people there ready to walk you through it and clarify things. Similarly, the bewildering choices in ranges, wall ovens, etc., plus they are ready with low-budget alternatives to the Wolfs and the Gaggenaus. You will get lots of help.

And as I recall about that awful "Best in Class" thread on the Appliances Forum, it started out with people helpfully answering the OP. There was mostly one poster who created most of the trouble, and got everyone's back up - he had never posted before, worded his posts so as to create discord, chimed in about his mansion, acreage, stables and wealth (I remember distinctly him commenting that he couldn't opine on a wine fridge cause he doesn't have one, he has a wine cellar). Apropos of nothing he listed his pretentious dinner menu. It was weird. No wonder the regular Appliances Forum people felt offended and everyone lost their tempers. It's unfair to use that thread to make out the Appliances forum as a scary attack forum.

Please, people, go over to the Appliances forum when you need appliances advice. It's ridiculous the things I'm reading here about being afraid to post there. Goodness. Of course, as mentioned for this Kitchens forum, don't post a thread saying "Um, I need a fridge", without mentioning your budget, how big your family is, how big is your kitchen, and any other preferences. Just like on this forum, you need to provide information in order for people to help you and not lose patience with you.

Ditto what Akchicago said about Appliances.

The funniest thread on AF was the one on does anyone make a truly quiet refrigerator. On and on, people who were on their third and fourth refrigerator, building insulation lined enclosures with reinforced bases, sleeping with earplugs, and generally coming apart at the seams because ice was clinking in the ice maker or the compresser could be heard through three doors, two walls, and a fifth of gin. No-one could agree on which brands were quietest or what quiet really meant. It was like an Internet discussion of high end audio. I do not know, but suspect, that most of the posters were single because they'd surely have unplugged their spouses, the darn thing was breathing all night and wouldn't stop! I did learn two useful things from that thread though. The first was that life is supposed to be hard, hearing the ice clinking all night is how we build character. The second is that for a really quiet refrigerator, get a propane or nat gas powered adsorption fridge - these are full-size versions of RV refrigerators, zero moving parts, and you can disconnect the cursed icemaker.

I think one of the great strengths of this forum is its diversity. Some folks are great with large kitchen layouts, some with small. Some know about DIY and Ikea options and others know the custom makers. Some are bored or put off by complex family requirements or detailed aesthetic styling concerns, others consider them a fun challenge. The forum population is large enough that no matter your niche or its size, there always seem to be folks who understand your situation and are willing to give helpful advice (and it's best to focus on these responses).

I also think the appliance forum is great and friendly and have enjoyed posting there as well.

Johnliu: :)

I generally agree the appliances forum can be gruff and scary. But some nice people have come on and softened the slaps I felt on a couple occasions. I think it helps to try to be upfront when you're feeling a little abused; it seems to be generally unintentional and/or, as noted above, a little proto-autistic in essence. This begs the tree-falling-in-forest question: if a poster was unintentionally harsh in their criticism, was disrespect shown?

All internet forums are always predicated on a model of 'take what works for you, leave the rest'. And if that rest needs to be fierce language, so be it. I think the best way to stiffle meanies is to be unfailingly nice yourself and as mentioned, stick up for someone who seemed to get a little bit squashed. [rats, there was a thread I wanted to try to do that for but now I can't even remember where it was....]

As a non-drinker, it hadn't really occurred to me how much slammed key-hammering is going on here. That could account for quite a bit, couldn't it....

Warts and bumps and slicers alike, I am grateful to this forum and its denizens. [and just for the record, it looks as if the person I paid too much to upfront for cabinets, really is going to come through with them tomorrow. I cannot tell you how many sleepless nights I have spent ruing my stupidity as revealed on this forum. Which isn't to say I wasn't stupid, but unlucky as well it's still possible I may not have been ... and come to think of it, it is on account of feeling so kicked by that thread that I in part have taken a couple weeks breather from GW - I think that's probably not a bad plan of attack in general].

I'm all right now. It was merely a flesh wound. (I'd been reading too much news & been a single parent for nigh on 2 weeks now!)

Johnliu, lol, I like the check list! I think I'll be using it:)

Maybe after this cathartic movement of a thread, we'll all be more aware of our internet presence. The only person you can change is yourself.

I agree with all the different perspectives on here. We are all different people, with different outlooks/backgrounds and what a good thing that is!

I love this forum! Someone mentioned that this is a place to come and discuss, rehash, obsess over kitchen stuff that would overwhelm and bore friends and family IRL. What an awesome group you all are! Thank you!

I agree akchicago. I actually think that forum has softened in the past year. I brought up the best in class because it's an example of a doozie thread, but no it's not the norm at all. :-)

Marcolo- I don't think it's a man/woman division...I think it's more of a left-brain/right-brain approach.

When it comes to relationship problems, left-brain math types often want to offer a solution to a problem, while right-brain creative arts types are often happy to discuss the many facets of the problem, but not necessarily offer a solution, IMHO :)

I'm fine with a quick...that's awful, hugs, hope things improve and call me later. However, being a left-brained gal, it's difficult not to try to fix the problem and I've gotten a lot of 'you sound like a guy' over the years! Like that's a bad thing? LOL

Dear kateskouros...

My rooster accepts your apology.

And I'm going to throw a picture in here because I think this thread could use some visuals.

Here is said rooster.

KA:)

KA, what's this about a rooster? I finally got my rooster and I love him! So, I'll add to the KA's fine looking rooster...

::Big Smile:: Lavender, right-brain/left-brain is a man/woman thing! When they did the experiments that lead to the popular knowledge about right/left divisions they assumed that women were just like men. In actuality, the brain is much more balanced for the largest part of the population, and the right/left highly lateralized thing mostly applies to right handed men from right handed families.

It's a useful metaphor, though, like Freudian tropes are. :)

hi doonie..

Kate wrote above..

so. to ease my mind: i am sorry if i have offended anyone. or if i wasn't pleasant enough. or if i didn't provide an answer that was helpful. and finally, for the love of GOD. i. am. sorry. about. the. roosters.

So doonie..I'm not exactly sure what she is referring to..but I thought she might need forgiveness...And my rooster feels the same way.

KA:)

What a fine bunch of roosters!

My Freudian small-brained bird is feeling rather sensitive and left out at the moment, so I thought I had better include him,

Please excuse the general mid-addition disarray around the broom closet (we aren't getting a new kitchen, just adding a bigger dining space to old kitchen before we start building new house. I know the timeline seems odd, it just worked out that way with our wonky schedule. Better later than never!)

Becky

I don't have roosters in my house, so you have all DEEPLY offended me by IMPLYING that there is something wrong with roosterlessness. WHO ARE you to call me HALF COCKED? ((crying))

marcolo, I hate to even think this, but without any rooster at all, you are not even half cocked, but uncocked...

Becky (ducking, erm, roostering)

Sorry, but this is the second time today I "heard" the word wonky. The first was a review board for Anthropologie, and I noticed it was a Canadian. Is "wonky" Canadian?

I don't think so. Wonky was my word of the day one day last week. Texans use it too.

But I don't have a rooster. sniff.

But I got two perdy stars in my leaded glass hutch cabients. ;-)

I'm from Washington state, and I use "wonky" too.

Did Kate offend someone's rooster? It sounds vaguely familiar.

I've been in Canada for the past 17 years, but have been using "wonky" for much longer, and am originally from NYC.

It's originally British, I believe. Probably snuck into my vocabulary from my half-English father or too many episodes of "Yes, Minister" or "The Good Life" : ).

mntrdredux, you qualify as an honorary Canadian for the day since you started your post with "Sorry" as a good Canadian would!

lascatx, aren't you going to show us your perdy stars?

marcolo, I hope you're not off crying in your roosterlessness and no longer able to reply...

Becky the Wonky

Here is a link that might be useful: Sorry Canadians

The question was "Um...is there something in the air or the water? "
I think there Was Something in the air at this time.
I think we could feel there was something in the air last night.
Everything in sight got clear.
Algo habia alrededor quizA, de claridad.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vikings also affected by what was in the Air that night.

Sorry, this is a little OT. According to Oxford, wonky is an early 20th century "fanciful formation." Other sites say it is German or middle English. Who knows. I've been saying it all my life.

mtnredredux, enjoy your day of honourary Cdn citizenship!

I think that it's pretty indicative of the overall 'mood' of this forum that this post, starting out as sort of a "what's wrong with us lately, are we getting mean?" has taken a sharp turn into hilarity. In the end, as individuals, I don't think we take ourselves as seriously as the folks on some forums do. We leave some room for error and interpretation.

When my new kitchen was getting a vaulted ceiling, but I wanted a Craftsman/Mission vibe, nobody guffawed, but gave me some good advice on layout and hardware to get a little of the feeling I wanted in there. I appreciated it.

I remember the 'Best in Class' thread over at Appliances. Classic. They can get a little rough, there are frequent posters that firmly believe that their expert opinion is the very last word. But they also give a little leeway in surprising places, too.

Cj
Roosterless in Wisconsin

I chalk it up to oxygen deprivation brought on by construction dust.

Sorry if I have offended any particulate matter.

On a more serious note, I really want to inscribe akchicago's post up top on two stone tablets, and hang them right on the front page:

I) Thou shalt not ask for advice when thou truly only wantest to hear that thou doest not looketh fat in those jeans; or if thou shalt do so, then thou shalt not lash out like Naomi Campbell with a hangover

II) Thou shalt not permit commenters to perform 40 hours of research, 60 hours of picture posting, and 90 hours of community service just so you can announce you are doing what you want anyway, with no explanation

III) If thou askest for advice, thou shalt return to thy thread, and not abandon it without further postings; or I will smite thee

IV) Thou shalt not start fifty threads about thy damn countertops, each time explaining that thou hast well and truly decided on soapstone, and asking for advice and help; only to be discover-ed cheating by also posting that thou hast well and truly decide on laminate, or thatch, or daub and wattle, and runnething the same scam elsewhere; or thou shalt by told to stick thy countertops in an unusually low-light environment.

Hmm. I think I have six more to go.

I too have been on this forum for several years and at times more active than at other times. There are some wonderfully talented people on this site who are so giving of their time and talents it can almost be hard to believe. When those threads about layout and such are posted, I do not respond because I know that I have nothing to offer especially compared to the expertise that others have here.

At other times though, I have often thought when typing a post "Have I included too much of my personal thoughts into this and made it about me?" So I hope that I am not one of those all about me posters.

I do know the question in the OP comes up around once a year at least. I actually saw one earlier today when looking for another old post. So I guess one could say that the overall mood here ebbs and flows like the tide or like the waters of the sea, genteel at one moment and stormy at another. It could have something to do with the moon or seasons perhaps?

As far as the appliance forum, I have to say I have learned a great deal from there. So much so that when I was seriously looking at appliances I more often than not knew more than the salesperson, and when I would start asking questions that displayed their ineptitude most were ready to lose me as a customer no matter the cost. I cannot say however that I have swam in those waters by posting, and I certainly don't know enough to offer any valuable information over what's being given already.

Marcolo, You sir are the cock of the walk.

Shannon
A wonky louisianan with a rooster.

Hmm if I'd known I was going to be Canadian for the day i might have scheduled medical treatment.

amen

SNIP:
The funniest thread on AF was the one on does anyone make a truly quiet refrigerator....

JL, I have to say that this post of yours had me crying I was laughing so hard! Thank you for the belly laugh! I confess, I probably even snorted.

I cannot even number all the times I tapped out a response on a thread, previewed it, corrected it, previewed it, corrected it--rinse and repeat, only to decide that I should just leave it alone-- or that perhaps my sense of humor may just come across as snarkiness--even with my "winky- face" smilie. Other times, I just let 'er rip and hope for the best.

~Shelayne without any danged roosters--wonky or not!