Take the trash away from the cooktop and put it under the cleanup sink. Yes, it can be done.

Forget the desk and run a countertop across the window, open below, for desk work, laundry or baking. In the alternative, enclose the W/D and put a drop-down work surface that lowers into that same space.

I really don't love both ovens in a separate room. Sometimes you have to start things on a stovetop and finish them in the oven. Here you have a door in between. Plus minimal oven landing space. Range.

good call on the trash. DH is insisting to have it near the clean up sink for pork chop bones and the like.

The under the window thing came up several times in the other thread but I don't like it for the simple fact that the windows are only 20" off the floor and are a great architectural detail. Currently both are blocked and it is just terrible.

I am about 99% of the way to going for the range. 36" or 48"????? I guess 36" since now I won't have my highly coveted pots and pans drawer

If i did that I'd probably keep the oven cabinet in the dog's room but reduce it to 27" wide from 33" and put the drawer MW and Steam Oven in it. I like the idea of all the tray storage above

A countertop under the window with no cabs below won't block a thing.

The dog room looks great! If you have an oven(s) in there...do you plan to use marble? I had to ask! :)

I like a range (plan to have one, in the new kitchen) because I don't like broiling, in a wall oven. It's also great to have meats cooking...and take them out and set them down on the range, if necessary.

However, I do like a wall oven, for baking. They're wonderful for cookies, muffins, cakes, pie, etc. (I'm getting hungry! LOL)

I don't know much about steam ovens, but I don't suppose you could combine it somehow, with the other oven, if you got a 48" range? Maybe have a grill, too? You have that wonderful, big hood...so it might be a nice feature. Your kitchen (especially the large hood) got me thinking about adding one in ours.

Every time I see your name, I want to say madame. :)

I have absolutely, positively, NO input whatsoever, I have been following your last three or four threads. I just want you to know that you are not alone. Don't give up! I am going through the same, Identical thing. I *think* I have the layout, DH is sitting in the kitchen twiddling his thumbs, threatening me that if I don't give him the thumbs up, he's going to start anyway. (NOT really, he's the most patient, kind, generous man in the world) BUT, it IS time and I just can't commit because I want it PERFECT.

You just hang in there, how long have you been working on your plan? I know I've seen you on here for a long time, but can't recall when you started planning.

Is your fireplace chimney brick? If it is, will you be leaving it exposed? That's the only opinion I would inject, only because I love, love, love, brick, and wouldn't want it removed. That is just personal, a lot of people rip it out first thing.

This last plan looks lovely to me, but, so did some others. But, I have NO brains when it comes to design, function, and layout, so there.

Anyway, wanted you to know I feel your pain, and how wonderful it would be to jump up and down about a plan so the fun stuff could start. I think you are getting there and can't wait to watch your progress!

OK, no more rambling....Just hugs going your way.

If you switch to a range then you could put the second oven with a microwave above where you currently have the double ovens. I would also reverse the trash and prep sink in the island so that there is less interrupted space.

Meant less interruption of the space or more simply put- more uninterrupted space.

I love it! My suggestions:

~ Switch to a range and make a big pots/pans drawer in the island right across from it. Then the stack in the dog/oven/laundry room (DOL?) could be your steam oven and MW, with tray storage--perfect!

I imagine that much of the time, that door will be open, and the room will just be part of the kitchen. But you will have the option to close it off if you'd like, for "company."

~ In your DOL room, I comepletely agree about not covering your low windows. We have the same issue, and I also wouldn't' cover them, no way, no how! But, I would consider reconfiguring it a bit. I have a built-in, fold-down ironing board in my laundry room and no folding table space, so guess what I always use for my laundry folding table? My fold-down ironing board. I love it! So, would you consider turning your W/D stack 90*, and putting in a thin fold-down table that would fold down to hang in front of your windows when needed, then fold back up again? (I hope I've explained this clearly--I'd be happy to post some photos of my set-up if it would help...)

~ Then the space on the backside of your chimney could become some hanging space for those coats and backpacks. It could be more built-in looking and purposeful, rather than hanging in the doorway, which I fear is how it may look now. Because that "stuff" is wider and heavier than you originally anticipate it to be. Plus you could include some shoe/boot storage on the bottom is it was built-in.

Just a few more comments...

Could you move your stool, back to the side (opposite the fridge) and put a pots/pan drawer there? Then you'd have garbage, prep sink and drawers for pots and pans, right across from the range. More pots and pans, could go on either side, if you moved the trash under the clean up sink...if it will fit.

Also, did you say you were considering adding a window, over the clean up sink? I know you'd lose a little dish storage, but you'd have a view out to that beautiful little porch! Even a smaller window would be great and you'd still have storage on either side.

It looks like you're getting very close to a final plan! :)

responding backwards...

home4all6 -- You are channeling me!! I am sitting here drawing and just now put the big pots and pans drawer in the island!

re: the coats in the DOL (LOL!!), I laid awake in bed last night thinking about how bulky they are and how this narrow corridor could become awkward in a hurry. I very much like the idea of the folding area becoming the coats/backpack area.

I would LOVE to see pics of your fold down situation. I had the w/d on its side because of how bulky they are but i suppose turning it will provide a similar amount of bulk as having the coats there. LL had suggested this as well - for this I will have to measure it out real time and put tape down on the floor. It feels very narrow in this area in real life.

I am not completely informed re: plumbing for the w/d. currently it is on the side of the machines, not behind ... I'd assume we could do that again.

In the other thread someone mentioned the LG w/d being very quiet. I'd have to look into this... in looking at the specs it is helpful that they are 29-3/4" deep (many are 32")... this is a game of inches.

Given my current laundry habits I might need a dedicated folding area but again, I would love to see your situation.

athomeinva - good point - i wanted to be able to have the trash drawer open while working at the sink so had put the sink in the middle. now i have the sink on the left, pots & pans in the middle and trash on the right (puts trash closer to the middle of the kitchen which can only be a good thing)...

sayde, so glad to hear that you were of the same mind re: wall ovens vs. range and that you are happy with the outcomes. the point made by marcolo re: starting something on the stove and finishing in the oven is spot-on. I cook this way all the time and as much as I think these commercial style range ovens are way too low for comfort my situation is dictating I go this way. This has been a good process of really figuring out my priorities as I am still holding on very tightly to the prep sink but was able to give up the pots and pans drawer (at least right under the cooktop).

re: the monogram - never again for me... terrible customer service. the fridge died after 6 months. the oven was so uneven (cookies at the front of the sheet raw, and those in the back burnt to a crisp).

I will have to think long and hard of all gas vs. dual fuel. dual is more $$ but I think i'd like the electric oven for pizzas, baking, evenness etc. I'd have the steam oven for things that like the moisture... will be thinking about this.

oh re: the DW placement... everytime I was moving it around, I was thinking would Sayde approve? if your ears wereing ringing, it was me!

susied3- I cannot thank you enough for commisserating with me. you get it 100%. the wanting to keep pushing forward because it just doesn't feel right, or some niggling little thing that is off. I am feeling SO much better about this new direction -- the utility room that can be closed off would be HUGELY functional for us. As much as removing the chimney would open up many possibilities, I am terrified by the unknown of what expenses may crop up as a result. And I just love the DOL (dog/oven/laundry room coined by home4all6!).

LL- YES! to marble in the DOL. I love the idea of a baking area - a small one but it would function as a landing spot and storage above and below as well so why not make the top marble in the event I want to roll out a pie crust or some such thing. The depth is a concern - only 18". I know you are very up on this sort of thing. Is it non-functional at that depth?

will post some elevations.. loving all the help I am getting from you all and so appreciate this new feeling of hope with the plan. Feeling it is much less compromised than it was a couple of days ago.

LL, cross posting with you. love the idea of pots and pans on the island. LOVE the idea of a small window looking onto porch. DH is concerned that this new direction eliminated a lot of upper cabinet storage but I am going to detail it for him on exactly where everything will go. if we can afford to lose a bit of space for a small window I think it would add a feeling of openness... I've never not had a window over my sink

I agree with everything marcolo wrote, can't say it better than that.

48" range would get you your double ovens in the kitchen, pot drawer in the island or even narrow pot drawers beside the range (not as good but don't know what you had planned for the island as is).

Is there a reason you need the door to the dog room where it is? If you could move the door back to the edge of where you have your folding table (so it swings back into the kitchen), then you can have a lovely baking run in the kitchen proper to the right of the stove.

Apologies I didn't read the whole thread so there may be a good reason that can't move. Just a thought ...

Good luck with your reno, it looks like a lovely space!!

MamaPaige- Could you use something like this for extra plate/mug storage? Maybe attach it to the brick, above the peninsula?
{{gwi:1571996}}From Fairy tale cottage

thanks taggie.
i put the door that so that when it is open (which i would imagine would be most of the time) it wouldn't be impeding any foot traffic in the DOL. I like how it has a wall to land against. The baking run in the kitchen would be ideal but I think i'd opt for a less problematic door and keep the baking in the DOL.

I am playing with the 48" range. I could have a 30" pots and pans drawer (in my mind the minimum I'd want) in the island and 21" 3 drawer bases on either side of the range.

The BIG problem I am working through right now is a decent folding/laundry area. Maybe I just need smaller laundry baskets - they are 27" w x 21" d. Am playing with a roll out tray idea but so far i am not feeling it.

LL, i love that pic! so pretty! i was talking to DH last night about this. One thing that has bothered me all along with the peninsula is that it isn't centered on the brick wall. It really can't be if I want the functionality out of it that I am looking for. last night i played with making it a freestanding work island open below on all sides so that it could be narrow enough to be centered on the brick wall. DH and i both think this would be great but I can't give up the storage.

given that it won't be centered I am just not sure how it would look to have the plate / cup storage -- would that be centered but the peninsula isn't? somehow it seems off.

you have a gorgeous collection of photos. i can't wait to see how your project comes out. have you posted any plans lately?

Oh, Mama, I just really want this work for you! Like I said, I know I will be in your shoes soon, and also have space issues to deal with--creativity at it's best!!! But that's why we love our old houses so much :)

So I took some pics with my phone--they aren't the best, but hopefully they give you some idea? Just for reference, the room is part of an addition built in 1960. It's a small closet area off a large room we use as a family room. The entire space was walled in that hardwood paneling. We took it down from the bathroom and repainted it white in the family room (it had already been painted, but brown)but we left it natural in the closet area, which we quickly converted to a first floor laundry room. I too am constantly doing laundry, and fold while watching bad tv at night :)

We did buy LG machines which work beautifully, but are not silent. Don't get me wrong, they are quiet, much quieter than our old machines, but they still make some noise. During the day, it's nearly un-noticeable, but at night, if we are trying to watch a movie or show, we slide the pocket door closed. It may be worth noting they are 5 years old, so things may have changed. But the rough and tumble sounds of clothes drying can't really go away, can they? And the other loud-ish part is water filling into the washer. IT goes in spurts, and is very noticeable.

Ok, back to the folding table. So it appears to me that it was custom made by the carpenter who did the work in here. It is hidden behind two paneling boards, so when it is closed, you can only see the hint of the hinges on one side and the wooden knob on the other to indicate it is there at all. The cabinet is just under 4 inches deep. The ironing board/table is made of wood also, and there is a simple mechanism built in to the bottom to guide it as it opens/closes. It also is adjustable heights--I prefer the higher setting.

It could easily be built to look like a very narrow cabinet along the side of your w/d stack, and would make a perfect utility table when needed, but be completely out of sight when not needed.

Where will you have a tv in this area? because that is where you will want o fold, right? Because I think you might have a small tv/ipad set up on the desk area and could fold right there?

Ok, here are pictures. Feel free to email me if you want more info or specifics.

Door closed. It is the width of just 2 panels, starts just above the black electrical outlet near the floor. you can also just make out the wooden knob.

And the door open:

And, when folded down. The table/ironing board itself is 51" long and 11.5" wide.

Oh, I forgot to answer the marble question. Yes, I think 18" would work...and it would look beautiful, but you won't have to worry if it gets a little 'patina' since you don't see it from the rest of the kitchen. It will be perfect for the baking area :)

As for the desk...does DH have to have it, in the kitchen? Is it an actual desk or mainly paper storage? If it's mostly storage, can the multipurpose cabinet work for that...or even part of the butler's pantry? Maybe put the desk under the little window, with a stool that slides under the countertop...but can be brought over to the peninsula, if you need more seating?
If that would work, I'd put marble on each side of the ovens and have the prettiest DOL room, in the world! Also, here's a picture of mudroom storage, from one of the gals (sorry I can't think of her name!) from the building a home forum. Hope this gives you some ideas! {{gwi:1422927}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

The hampers...if you turned the washer/dryer, would you have room for a little cabinet next to it, with a couple of slide-out hampers?

I think you'll have to choose between laundry basket storage OR coat backpack storage inside the DOL room, and find another place for the other.

Laundry baskets/hampers can live in the bedrooms and/or bathrooms--that is what we do, as we don't really have room for dirty laundry storage in our laundry room. I find it works well for us, and keeps the laundry from piling up in the laundry room, which would be kind of yucky near the adjacent kitchen anyway, right?

I do really like the idea of coat backpack storage in this room, but could it be but on the backside of the pocket door wall somewhere. The wall might have to be moved "down" a little, but I think you have the room.

I remembered the laundry room of the couple on younghouselove, where they have a stackable w/d with little shelves built in on one side. you could do something similar, and then if you wanted, build in a fold-down table/ironing board on the other side, and some cabinets up above. Kind of giving your w/d a built-in look.

{{gwi:1767900}}

Here is a link that might be useful: younghouselove

home4all6-- again, I am channeling you! just had the discussion with DH about the fact that there is not enough rooms for coats if we want a decent area for the laundry.

he came up with the idea of using the basement stairwell landing for coats. currently it is loaded up with all sort of cleaning products, suntan lotion, vacuum, brooms, mops, etc. We can find a place for all of this stuff to live -

Again, all of this planning has been so amazing at really defining priorities. We will have quite a bit of storage in the butler's pantry and above the subzero combo drawers will be coat hanging storage - but it will be a very tall rod and obviously too tall for the kids. its not ideal (would be more so if we weren't getting those combo fridge/freezer drawers) but its something. I had said to DH the other day that if we put an extra fridge (just any old thing) in the basement we could eliminate the drawers in the butler's pantry and have 36" of mudroom space behind closed doors. He likes the idea of those drawers in that spot for entertaining purposes. Our fridge is the 30" model so we do probably need something else in addition to just that (not all the time but some of the times).

LL, I very much like the idea of one continuous piece of marble running along that wall - even incorporating the oven cabinetry. DH did his homework in the kitchen as a kid and is hung up on the nostalgia element here. I really don't think anyone will use the desk but as stated he asks for very little.

He is much more about function and less about form - if I draw something and he likes the look of it and can imagine its purpose, he'll go along.

am making such major headway this week and just thrilled with how this is all coming along. 2 days ago i was ready to move (again)

Regarding your folding area, an pull-out extension to add depth sounds great (I was "feeling" it), but the area is pretty narrow.

If you were to build a thin but strong wall (2x4s mounted sideways, for instance) framing in the stacked W/D on the left, you could mount a fold-down counter on that and look out the window as you folded. Looks like you'd have a good 3-1/2 foot stretch to work at.

I also am considering mudroom storage along basement landing & steps, as it is also our primary entrance. I have saved this pic as an idea:

I'd keep the fridge drawer in the Butler's pantry, and keep that as kitchen-y as possible, not mudroom-y. Use the utility/DOL space for other storage. I don't have those refrig drawers, but a simple "dorm" fridge in our family room area, it is so great to have another spot for beverages. Keeps it out of our main fridge, and more accessible to the entertainment areas of the house.

If you move the ovens into the kitchen proper (e.g. with a range), do you even need the door to the dog room anymore? That is, is the main reason for the door so that you could get to ovens and baking?

If it was, then maybe just making it a wall could work better ... it would definitely give you more options for laundry and dog room storage configurations. I'm thinking something like this:

Or if you don't want it totally closed off, you could still put a door there, having it swing back against the kitchen wall by the mech area.

Again though I haven't read through all the background so I could well be missing something totally obvious re. how you want to use the space. If so, just disregard. :)

MDP- you may want to step away from gw for a bit, the constant ll input may be making you high. did you really ask for her newest plans?

I'm going to be using some Elfa baskets for laundry in my laundry room because they're narrower than traditional laundry baskets and come in a variety of sizes. I switched to a stacked washer and dryer to provide more room for storage of filled laundry baskets and some counter space. I've been very pleased with the switch. Our laundry room is combined with our mud room. I intend to store shoes under the shelving for the laundry and hopefully some nearby hooks for coats. Inside our family room will be some shallow drawers for keys, etc. Our new washer and dryer are pretty quiet, but we do like having a pocket door to close off when they're running because sometimes the high speed spinning can make enough noise to be annoying.

Athome- Thank you. I missed MamaPaige's question, when we were both posting.

MamaPaige- I see what you mean, about the plate rack...and the brick wall is going to be beautiful. I'm glad you like the pictures. Sometimes it's easier to post a picture, than try to explain it...and it's just more fun!

As for our farmhouse plan...thanks for asking. We're still working on it, but at least the major rooms seem to be in the right place, we're just working on a few details :)

The closed off wall in taggie's layout enables you to put a wall of function to the left of the chimney, including your ovens, storage and maybe an appliance garage. You could either put a pantry-type pullout above the counter near the range, and extending over it; or eliminate that jag counter next to the range so you can use the entire functional wall, standing next to the window.

I'm looking at your "dol" room, trying to picture if this idea would help you.

In my mudroom/laundry room, it seemed the baskets were always in the way -- and moving each one when I needed to get to something was rather cumbersome.

I designed a "laundry cart" and had dh build it. Yes, I've seen laundry carts for sale online, but I think they were made for people who didn't actually do much laundry. The compartments were so small. My laundry cart holds 3 tall, oval/cylindrical baskets that we use for "dirty." It's on wheels and has a grocery cart style handle. It's very easy to move the baskets out of the way when I need to now. It is also helpful for folding/sorting. I use the traditional rectangle baskets for "clean" and they can rest on top of the baskets - keeping everything at a nice, non-back bending height.

I had previously noticed your hanging coats/backpack area and was going to chime in there wasn't enough space. My 5th grader's backpack sticks out, I don't know, 10 inches or more when it's hung up. (the weight of it is a crime!). But I see you've noted that as well.

Keep chugging. You're doing great. No one knows your space and your family's needs better than you do. Necessity is the mother of invention. ;-)

athomeinva, what? i don't understand.

rosie,
i meant to respond to your message in the other thread. the feeling of openness concept is a valid point.. the dining room is good sized as is the living room. the den is really too small. the basement is in good shape - very dry and decent height ceilings. I'd love to convert one of the rooms down there into a playroom/den for the kids. someplace for them to do wii and hang out with their friends. that is a project for another day.

pricklypear - good call on finding different baskets - why spend thousands designing around a $10 basket that is half way to falling apart, right?

LL - I love your pics! will keep track of your progress

Taggie, this is a compelling idea - one major issue I'd have with it is losing the light coming in from that window

Marcolo-- oh my! you already talked me out of my wall ovens, now you're telling me I can have them? ;-) just kidding. i will seriously consider this. maybe you could take a look after i post my elevation of the plan above and let me know what you think ... i'm sort of okay with the original idea but am intrigued by this as well

I think as long as we don't count on the DOL as a coat room we'll be fine with the

I meant, keep the range, do the wall ovens as a stack with an oven and then your choice of speed oven, steam oven, etc.

ahhh, i see...

just finished the elevation of the range wall (minutes to spare before getting kids at school).

The MW drawer requires a 24" deep cabinet - the Steam oven only needs a 22" deep cabinet - was thinking how nice it would look to have the one continuous slab of countertop on this run. Seems like a mass of upper cabinets but I could use the storage.

This is slightly off-topic, but... While we're looking at an elevation of your DOL room, might I suggest something like this under the folding area: :-)

[

[traditional kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by chicago architect COOK ARCHITECTURAL Design Studio

Oh yes, you might! I love it! George and Caroline would be thrilled!

MamaPaige- That elevation looks wonderful! I like the range. Probably has been asked before, but what software are you using?

Chris- Great dog bed picture. Those two are adorable :)

Thank you Lavender... Just loved your idea about the continue countertop in the DOL. I think it could make the oven cabinet look a little more hutch like. I think I could be far more creative with the cabinetry layout but I worked too much on this the last couple of days. need a break.

i did work on the fridge elevation as well. I am going to post. would love your opinion and anyone else's if people aren't completely sick of my project!

Two are with a window and two are without. Two are with the X cabinets, two are with regular cabinets. Either way I see the cabinet above the sink being shallower in depth than the others.

Thanks for looking.

You know...I like C, but I think the window will make a big difference. It would be nice to be able to see the garage and kids/husband coming up, without going to the door.

This may be all wrong with your style, but have you ever considered an oval window, over the sink? I don't know why, but it seems like it might work, especially with the upper cabinet, above the window. Not exact, but something like this? {{gwi:1767907}}From Fairy tale cottage

I always prefer a window over the sink, so I would recommend plan A or B.

In the current "taggie" floorplan, I am imagining that you would do much of your prepping on the counter that runs between the big kitchen clean up sink and the range.
I think that for most people it is that continuous run of counter between sink and range where most of the prep and cooking takes place.
Just a thought, but could you lose the prep sink in the island if you might be effectively using the wash up sink as a prep sink?

MamaPaige- Thought I'd bump this up, to see if you can get more input :)

How about putting an interior window on the wall between the kitchen and the laundry room? Directly across of the exterior window. It could be textured to let in light but hide any mess.

Mamapaige- How wide are your windows, on either side of the cooktop?