Your layout is very similar to mine in our new house we are building now. I received help from this wonderful kitchen forum a few months ago. Here is a pic of my layout. This is pretty much how it will be except I moved the fridge to the left, so it's right next to the hutch. And now my pantry will be one continuous reach in pantry. This ended up being cheaper than custom built pantry cabinets. My DW will be to the left of my sink. It shows an upper cabinet to the left of my DW in the corner, but I'm not putting an upper there. I'm also not putting in a corner upper that's shown to the right of the sink. The long string of uppers from the range will end straight into the wall. Oh, and my island will be 6" wider than this....so a 7'x4' island.

Do you need a walk-in pantry? I thought I did, but the more I thought about it, the more I realize I love my current reach-in pantry. And in my new Mudroom, where it says 'Built-In Cabs'....those will be floor to ceiling cabinets that will house all of my big stuff....bulk paper towels, small appliances, large pitchers, paper goods for parties, etc. Between my in the kitchen reach in pantry and these extra cabinets in the mudroom, it will be plenty of space. Looks like you would have space to do the same if you made your mudroom and pantry the same space. It was also important to me to have a door in the mudroom that accessed the backyard. You could gain that too if you want.

The 'Built-In Hutch Area' shown will be where we have our wine glasses and such. Bottom portion will have a wine fridge plus some cabinets. There will be a counter there, which we'll use for extra space for food and drinks when we host parties.

Here's my inspiration for my pantry (minus the pocket doors). My doors will be regular swing doors and I'll likely hang organizers on them for narrow items like canned goods or other jars.

Custom pantry · More Info

gthigpen, how wonderful that you saw Stacy's post! Your kitchen is going to be delightful. I especially love how you have a door from the mudroom to the back of the house.

Stacy, I think you could make this work for you. One of the things I didn't like about your plan (besides the distance to the pantry) is how crowded the range wall is. Moving the fridge to the bottom wall solves that problem. Your coffee station can go where gthigpen shows a hutch.

I also think you can ditch the desk. My Mom is the only person I know who has ever actually sat at her kitchen desk. I sit at the kitchen table to do desk stuff - but I built a cabinet and some drawers into a wall of cabinets for desk-related stuff: file drawers, plus short drawers for pens, tape, scissors, stamps, etc. The cabinet has shelves for envelopes, in and out boxes, and outlets inside for charging things. I LOVE not having chargers all over my countertops! Inside the doors I have a calendar and a magnetic whiteboard.

I think if you can adapt gthigpen's layout to your own kitchen, this will be useful. One thing I really think is important is having as much prep as possible by the range. Or maybe that's just the way I cook?

In my case, I don't want a desk in my kitchen. But I can see for some that it is practical, doing things and keeping an eye on kids nearby, depending on what you've set up for them. If I did have kids at an age that I'd be watching them like a hawk, I'd reduce the desk space by at least half, anyway. (Especially since it looks, if I am reading this right, that your prep sink is on your desk counter space.)

PS, currently I am working at my temporary desk on the dining table... I have no desire to do anything similar when I move!

gthigpen Thanks for your response. Yes our spaces are really similar! I did consider moving the fridge, but my worry of putting it on that wall is that it will be too near the doorway/main entrance. My sister has her fridge at the opening of her kitchen now and it is a total nuisance when guests are over since everyone kind of congregates there and you can't open the fridge. Perhaps yours is scooted far enough away from the door for that to not be an issue. I like your idea about combining the pantry and mudroom, that's definitely a thought. With three little boys who will grow into teens, I definitely can use more space in the mudroom. Hmm. Part of the problem with my current kitchen is that the reach in pantry is too small, so perhaps I am overcompensating.

AnnKH I agree, range wall seems crowded. I worried about that too. So I just realized the floor plan I sent shows a desk but doesn't really clearly denote what it is- it's actually going to just be a small cutout (only large enough for one single backless barstool) with a couple of drawers and it will actually be all the way on the side of the counter near the basement door. It's going to be where mail goes and papers from school and stuff. Also my laptop will "live" there as I use it frequently when I am cooking and I prefer to have it in the kitchen. We will have a formal office just to the left of the foyer, so the kitchen desk didn't need to be a big space, mostly just a drop zone for mail and school papers. I plan on putting cubbies in the mudroom for each person in our family and each cubby will have its own outlet so the charging devices should go in there. So other than the small desk area on that wall, the rest of the wall will be unbroken countertops and upper and lower cabinets and drawers.

artemis, I agree. I plan on using the island as my primary prep space (which is what I do in my current kitchen). I thought I would do the same here, but now that you mention it maybe the island is too far from the range for that to be as practical? I'm not sure. I am actually quite bad at spatial stuff and conceptualizing. ;)

I am leaning toward putting the prep sink on the far corner of the island in front of the fridge area now.

Your instincts are right--prep sink should go on the island, and DW should be to the left of the sink, so that clean-up and prep don't cross. You can put the trash on the corner of the island nearer the clean-up zone, so that all zones share it.

The MW can go where the prep sink was drawn, on a shelf near the fridge, but out of the prep space, with hubby's coffee below it.

If the kitchen is 18' top to bottom (comparing the measurements across the top of the pic), you won't have space for seating on either short side, and NKBA recommends 24" 'elbow room' for each seat. An 88" island would have space for only three seats--maybe four if the seats are for kids. If your counter overhangs are only 1", you'll have only 78" left to divide between two aisles, which is 3" less than the NKBA recommended minimum of 42". If you make all the base cabinets on the long wall, except the MW/coffee area, 18" deep, you could increase the width of both aisles. (18'=216" - 25"/sink wall - 19"/long wall - 88"/island = 84", or 42" for each aisle.) If you reduce the length of the island to 82", since you can have only three seats anyway, you could keep the full depth cabinets.

Where are you storing dishes?

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

NKBA recs--illustrated

I recall a discussion about dish drying cabinets in one of michoumonster's threads--scroll down.

Our fridge will be about 5 feet into the kitchen. Our kitchen is on the back of the house, so not near the entryway at all. At our parties, everyone gathers around our island!

You need a lot more upper cabinets. All these pictures with no uppers and shelves with 4 plates, bowls and glasses are absurd. I live alone and heed many more as I certainly don't want to run a dishwasher with 4 dishes in it because I'm out!

For dish storage, ease of unloading the DW, and easy access for setting the table, I'd put the dishes in drawers on the island. If the island is 60" x 82", and you make the sink aisle 48", you will have space for 24" seating overhang on that end of the island, with a 33" drawer base plus side panel, beside it, turned toward the DW. You'd actually have 35" available, so if you are doing custom cabinets, you could use the whole width minus the cabinet skin. I wouldn't worry about the open DW blocking access to the kitchen--they can walk around, and the fridge is on the other end anyway. I made the sink a little wider, because it looked as if there was filler--I'd make the cabinet on the end more narrow to get a bigger sink.

By making the sink aisle 48" to accommodate the dish drawers, you would lose space in the traffic aisle from the back door (unless you make the island smaller still). Do you think 36" at hip level would be sufficient for your family? It's not a work aisle, so 36" with no seating, and no appliances, is the minimum recommended. The stool for the desk/laptop area would need to be kept pushed under the counter, and while sitting there you might block traffic to and from the back door. But again--it's not the only access, and they can go around.

So, here is what the island might look like. I accounted for 1" overhangs--I hope my math is correct. ;) I included three seats on the long side, which is pushing the limit for comfortable seating, but as I posted before, if seating is for kids it will probably work.

gthigpen your kitchen is going to look great! I love your ideas.

mama goose, thanks for the sketch! That really helps me a lot visually. I am loving the idea of the dish drawer and where you laid out the island cabinetry. Is it going to bother me visually to not have the island centered, or to not have part of the counter extend closer towards the range do you think? I'm going to have to look at some more photos to try and decide if those things will really matter to me (I'm guessing no), but I am really liking the utility! :)

A couple of things...

Prepping and Prep Zone...When it comes to prepping, there are two locations that are the most useful/functional:

• Between the sink and range/cooktop along the same wall or around the corner

• Directly across from the range/cooktop in an island - but you need to have a sink for it to work and the aisle should be at least 42" for a one-cook Kitchen/48" for two or more people (this is your situation). But, the aisle shouldn't be too wide or it becomes difficult to cross back and forth. [Note that aisles are measured b/w the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest - counters, appliance handles, etc. They are not measured cabinet-to-cabinet.]

Which is better? It depends on what you prefer.

Some people prefer prepping right next to the range/cooktop b/c it's easier to transfer food to the cooktop/range or take pots filled with water to/from the sink to/from the range/cooktop - just slide it along - and you are far less likely to trip over someone/something.

Some people prefer prepping on an island b/c they prefer to prep in front of visitors or they prefer not have a wall or cabinets in their face. Islands (and peninsulas) also give you deeper workspace (at least truly functional ones do). You do have to turn around to go b/w the Prep Zone & range/cooktop - sometimes with a big pot of water, sometimes with a knife in hand - and you do have to cross an aisle.

In your case and since you have plenty of room, I think having both would be best b/c even if you're the only cook now, that will change quickly! You will be very surprised at how fast small children grow and how quickly it becomes time to teach them how to cleanup and cook! When you have 2, 3, 4, or more in the Kitchen at the same time, you will be very thankful for two sinks and two separate Prep Zones!

Note that there are three key components to a functional Prep Zone:

(1) Water source directly adjacent to the workspace

(2) Sufficient clear counter/workspace - the minimum is 36", but 42" or more is much, much better

(3) Location (discussed above) - directly across from or next to the cooktop/range

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Desk...Most people tear out desks when they remodel. Desks in Kitchens usually end up as junk magnets. It's better to plan a Message Center/Communication Center in or very close to the family's main entrance (usually a garage or similar entrance). This Center is where you would park your keys, purse, mail, school papers (both for your attention and when you have papers that need to be returned to school), etc., as well as charging station, family calendar (if you have one), a place for notes to you and family members, ...

Most computers today are laptops or tablets and they can go anywhere. In fact, planning for one place is probably a waste of space - with the exception of a place for a large monitor to hook your laptop up to if you prefer - but I would not put it in the Kitchen!

Storage for things like envelopes (if anyone really uses them anymore!) and similar can be anywhere. Unless you have a surplus of storage space in your Kitchen, I would not put that storage there - put it someplace out of the way where it isn't taking up valuable space that could be better utilized for other, more often used items.

.

To answer your questions:

• "do you think I will actually do any prep in the pantry? It sounds good in my head but I'm worried the space may actually be too small to really do so"
  Answer: No, you won't prep in the pantry - unless you like working in a cramped area with no natural light and far from the refrigerator, cooktop, etc. (Cramped for working in, not as an actual pantry - it's a nice size for a pantry.)

• "Where would you place the prep sink?"
  Answer: The prep sink should be where you actually prep, not off to the side (or hidden in the pantry)

• "where would you put the microwave and trash?"
  Answer:
  -- The trash pullout should be in the Prep Zone but near the Cooking Zone and, if possible, the Cleanup Zone. You generate far more trash & recyclables while prepping and cooking than during any other task - including cleaning up - and for a much longer time (80% or more of the time spent in the Kitchen is spent prepping (75%+) and cooking (10%)).
  -- The MW and refrigerator should be on the perimeter where they're easily accessed from the Prep and Cooking Zones as well as to outsiders looking for a snack while others are prepping, cooking, or cleaning up.
  -- In addition, there should be no obstacles b/w the refrigerator and Prep & Cooking Zones - it should be as close to a straight path as possible.

• "the original plans had the dishwasher to the right of the sink, we had him move it, but now I'm wondering if that was a mistake."
  Answer: The DW should not be b/w the cooktop/range and the sink. This is one of the primary Prep Zones. The DW should not be in the middle of another work zone.

About that pantry - it's really far from the Kitchen. I would think long and hard b/f locating it so far away.

One last comment - I know you don't want upper cabinets, but you need a place to store your dishes very close to the DW and near your primary table space. That usually means next to the DW and above it. Across an aisle (e.g., in the island) is fine - but only if you have a wide enough aisle to have both the DW and the drawers/cabinets open at the same time!

Is that the Laundry Room in the Garage? Or, is that just a Laundry Tub in the garage for other uses?

Regarding Laundry Rooms...they work best when placed near the bedrooms. The vast majority of laundry comes from and goes back to the bedrooms! So, if your bedrooms are on the second floor, that's the best place for the Laundry Room. It really cuts down on long-distance lugging of laundry baskets to/from the bedrooms!

If you have a first floor Master Bedroom, I'd put the Laundry Room either near the Master Bedroom (especially if you plan to eventually retire here) or carve out a space for the W/D later and put the Laundry Room upstairs with the rest of the bedrooms while your children are home. (Kids generally create more dirty laundry than adults! Plus, towels, etc., from the bathrooms.)

Here are some links that might be helpful:

New to Kitchens? Read Me First!

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4306041/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first

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Asking for layout help:

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information

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Kitchen Design Best Practices/Guidelines/Principles Threads:

Kitchen work zones, what are they?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

Looking for layout help? Memorize this first.

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

Buehl thanks so much for your post! I feel much more confident now that the island will be my primary prep area, and that corner in front of the fridge is where the prep sink should be located.

The short version on my "desk": I have always envisioned it more like a planning center anyway. I was thinking it would be countertop height (so that whole wall will be one contiguous countertop), and the cutout will be just wide enough for one barstool (so 24" approx?). There will be spare outlets, some drawers for mail type stuff, pens, paper, and maybe a keyboard tray so I can store my laptop in there when not in use and when we have guests over so we can use that long counter as a buffet/beverage space. The extra barstool could be pulled up to the island as extra seating for guests. We will have a "formal" office off the foyer but having a spot close to the kitchen was important to me...I already use my laptop in my kitchen now constantly and can't picture not having a place to store it nearby. I definitely don't want that area to "look" like a desk though.

Based on what mama goose said, I'm leaning towards trimming the length of the island and maybe using a drawer there for dish storage. If that doesn't work, I envision that I could use the upper cabinet to the far left closest to the windows for dishes. Again, not the expert, that's just what I originally pictured I guess?

My laundry room is on the second floor, which is where all of the bedrooms will be. You're right- that sink in the garage is really more of a utility sink, I will have my mudroom sort of "extended" into the garage...there will be extra storage for outdoor stuff, cleats, sports equipment, and also wet towels and bathing suits in that area and I don't want the kids dragging that stuff inside! I currently have a first floor laundry (but no bedrooms at all on the first floor) and I HATE it. A utility sink in the garage was something I definitely wanted in my next house.

Oh I just realized I never addressed the other posters' comments about gaining a door to the backyard- we will have a walkout basement, so our first level is about 15 feet up in the back of the main level. No way to gain a doorway there anyhow. Would be super nice though! I actually was not looking for a basement lot to start, but this just kind of fell into place for us.

If you use a regular in-swing door, you can keep the second prep area. You could keep dishes in drawers to the right of the sink, so the island could move a few inches closer to that end, which leaves more space in the bottom aisle, and would center the island on the range.

I like that, mama goose!

Builder gave me the thumbs up to add doorway to pantry and move fridge. We are going to eliminate the door between the pantry and mudroom to buy us even more storage space in both rooms! I feel so relieved. Going to the cabinet showroom tomorrow to just discuss my vision with the cabinet people and see if there is anything else I am missing. Thank you all so much, I feel so much better about what I have going on now! :)

I may actually put coffee stuff in the pantry now, and do one wall in there as a countertop for coffee prep (since it will be close enough to main sink for water source now). The microwave would be too far from fridge to put in the pantry though, right?

Just throwing out one more idea that would gain you back your counter space between the range and sink. Please excuse my poor editing. I only use lowly Word with basic text boxes. :)

- Went back to your original plan with only 1 door from mudroom/pantry space. This gains you back that counter and cabinet space between the range and sink.

- Your back to a long walk to your pantry, but I put in a 4' wide reach in pantry next to your fridge. You could put your daily/most used stuff in there. The big pantry around the corner would be used for the lesser used stuff, so you're not making those steps multiple times a day.

- Put the M/W and coffee station next to the pantry. I don't have the exact measurements, but looks like about 4'.

- Move your 'Desk' area to the mudroom/pantry room. It's just around the corner so not a far walk. Still the same concept of a charging station, mail organizer, drop zone area. But now it's out of site of the kitchen and you won't see that clutter. Take your laptop into the kitchen when you're using it, but easy to put away when your not. You've got room to make it as wide as you want. I'm planning on one of these areas in my mudroom.

- Could you bump that bottom wall down 6"? We did that in ours to allow for a full depth fridge, but would still look counterdepth. And it made our pantry deeper so I could put shelves in the back and side walls and step in to it.

Double doors would work, but you'd be opening and closing two doors, rather than one. If you used swinging doors you could use a hip to push through when your arms are full.

Personally, I'd prefer the coffee in the kitchen. Your husband might not mind going to the pantry for coffee, but when you have guests, do you want them to have go to the pantry for their coffee? (Unless you entertain very formally with a tray and coffee service brought to them.) Oh, wait ... that would be a good way to show off your pretty new pantry--other than showing us lots of finished kitchen pics. ;)

ETA, forgot MW. If you rarely use the MW, then it would be OK in the pantry, but if it gets a lot of use, I'd leave it in the kitchen. If you don't want to see it, you can conceal it in a cabinet, or put it in a drawer so that it isn't at eye level.

In gthigpen's last plan, I'd switch the pantry and coffee nook, so there is landing space beside the fridge.

I won't speak to the overall design, as Mama Goose knows her stuff. I will say in my former house, I had a tiny step in pantry and I used that as my baking area. I loved it, and don't like having to haul the flour, sugar etc. out of the pantry to the counter where my mixer lives. Once dough was made or cookies mixed I'd move out to the kitchen counter to finish, but all mixing was completed in the pantry.

Thank you, mabeldingeldine--you know I loved your former kitchen, too. :)

What about a pocket door into the pantry?

gthigpen, my husband is totally against the combined pantry and mudroom. He also says he wants to be able to see everything in the pantry all at once, and doesn't like to have stuff behind cabinets. (My MIL's kitchen is somewhat that way, which drives him batty, which maybe is why he is so opposed to it). He wants a fully walk in pantry. I do see how your plan would work well though! I don't think it would bother me at all, but I guess I have to pretend I let him help me make some decisions ;)

mama goose, good point about dual doors. I wonder if I can put in swinging saloon style doors and get the best of both worlds? I envision something looking like cabinets still and not the 80s style louvered doors. Ha! Also, we entertain really informally, but I can always pull my coffee stuff into the kitchen if we have "fancy" guests. I do agree the microwave is probably best left in the kitchen. We use ours at least 2-3 times a day but mostly just to reheat foods.

mabeldingeldine, I love that space! That's good to hear that you had a utilitarian area in your pantry and it worked for you. I think I might be able to do the same sort of thing. If I do a long enough countertop in the pantry, I can leave my stand mixer there and maybe do some prep in there also. That thing is heavy and not sure where else I would store it. I've seen the pics of the fancy little fold out mixer cabinet stand things, but I just can't see doing something that elaborate with mine (I only use mine once or twice a month, maybe).

ally123, I can't see my kids ever actually closing the door if it were a pocket door. I wish though, it would look nicer!