Which island plan do you prefer form and function

12 years ago

Well I think I have my kitchen plans figured out. I would love your opinions on my ideas for the island. I am including 4 pictures - 2 at 7'x4' and 2 at 7'x3'. I prefer the 7'x4' so that I have a bit more room behind my sink, but am not sure if it looks too big. (The living room basically starts after the window beside my fridge)

I also have 2 options for my sink - either on the left or right of the island. Does one seem more functional than the other?

I am thinking of adding 12 inch shelves at either end of the island facing the living room with 2 or 3 small chairs in between. Would that look too busy?

Thanks for your suggestions!

7x4

{{!gwi}}

7x3

{{!gwi}}

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Comments (16)

igloochic
12 years ago
I'd like to comment but I want you to start over first....why on earth is the sink four feet across the room from the range when you ave a huge corner to put it into easily, thereby making the cooks job much more efficient?

I'd out a small prep sink in the island and let the balance of the island do the work of the pantry. Move the sink to the corner and the dw to the right hand 27" cabinet space. Dishes stored above on either side. A beautiful light fixture above the sink and a shelf built into the counter behind to use the space efficiently. A fabulous faucet since you have open space above (in my plan lol). Pull out pantry cabs in the island will replace the corner pantry easily and you will never regret the large L shaped counter between the sink and stove.
elphaba_gw
12 years ago
Putting the sink in the corner instead of the pantry is a pretty good idea but I'm in the camp of those who think their pantry can't be big enough so substituting island space doesn't quite work for me and I can also see why you want the sink in the island with a view toward the living room. Also, not much of a view when standing at the sink if it is in the corner.

Looks like the sink is kind of small at 24 inches. What if you centered the sink in the 84 inch long island (4 ft wide) and if sink had 30 inch length, doesn't these require 36 inch cabinet? (my newbie status showing here) which would give you 24 inches on either side of the sink - one for dishwasher and other side for the garbage and can you use the remaining 6 inch for a pull out for soap and stuff?

Or better what about putting the garbage under the sink - there are several threads on the forum talking about this - I know that is what I plan to do. Some have posted very clear pictures of full kitchen garbage cans under the sink, including sinks with garbage disposers. So that would give you some nice 24 inch stack of drawers on the other side of the sink opposite the dishwasher and give it that nice symmetry that many find nice if you can get it.
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Wish I had thought of a double wide island. Why can't you change now? Are the cabinets already ordered or delivered? If they are ordered, perhaps you could change the order. If you have them already, you don't have to use the ones for the small leg of the L (2 cabinets?). You could even look into what it would cost to get the cabinets needed for a wider island. In diagram 2, it looks like the island is the same size as diagram 1 and I don't expect that it would be. The cabinets might be the same, but the seating overhang changes. In 1, the seating is on the outside of the long side of the L. At 9', it will seat 4 (figuring the usual 24" per seat). In 2, the seating side of the island is now inside the L, which means that it will be 7' long and seat 3. You could mock up the kitchen (use boxes, wood on saw horses or even just tape on the ground) to see how it is to move in the space. We have 36" between the short side of our island and the L. At that size, one can use counters on both sides of the aisle and just turn to get from one to the other. We have about 50" between the long side of the island and the L. It's a good size for an area where multiple people are working. Someone setting the table from the L cabinets doesn't interfere with someone else doing prep at the island. When something is needed from the other side, it's a turn and step to get from one to the other. Our island is 51" wide (15" seating overhang plus 36" base). I wouldn't recommend putting a cooktop on an island with seating opposite the cooktop that was less than 48" wide. 48" allows for 24" of counter behind the cooktop. That is a good buffer distance between those seated at the island and the hot surface. 18" is cutting it a bit tight. 24" also makes the area behind the cooktop a good useful size. We use it as part of the baking area for filling cookie sheets, rolling dough, forming loaves, etc. It's also a good size when we use the area to set out a buffet. You are going to have to get electrical to the island whether you have a cooktop there or not. Islands are required to have electrical outlets by code (unless they ave very tiny). You will also need electrical for a garbage disposal on the prep sink if you have one. Getting gas to the island is no more difficult than getting water to it - the sink will have hot and cold water pipes and a drain. Our house is on a raised foundation so gas, water, and electrical just went under the floor. Our house is one story so there is nothing in the way of venting to the roof. We had one difficulty with it because there was a joist in the way of the spot where the vent would go with the hood in ideal position. We had a custom duct cover made with a slant so the duct could avoid the joist while still having the hood where we wanted it. You can see the slant better in this picture: Island hoods generally cost $500-1000 more than wall mounted hoods (because all 4 sides have to be finished and it has to be built to be supported just from the top). The custom duct cover added a few hundred more in our case. There are threads discussing the pros and cons on island cooktops. For us, it works well having it there, but it wouldn't with a 42" deep island. Many others here prefer having the island as a large open counter without a cooktop interrupting it.
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Excellent on taping out the layout!! I hope you also taped up, or will do, a "hood" and uppers. One of our members did that years ago when she was trying to decide where to put it and it made a huge difference. There's an old bias from the middle of the 20th century, and before, not to put the oven near the fridge because the heat from the oven would make the fridge work hard, or previously, melt the ice in the icebox. Additionally, it's not nice to have the stove (cooktop) right by the fridge or any wall because it cramps your handles, elbows, etc. It has definitely become an embedded cultural trope. Today's ovens are well insulated. Between that and the cabinetry, there shouldn't be any side heat warming your fridge, which, itself, is very well insulated. Warm air will be blown into the room to cool the electronics of the ovens, but it shouldn't be an issue. There are no warnings from manufacturers to separate them, and there would be weasel words (lawsuit preventers) if this were a problem. The big issue with putting them next to each other is if the fridge door swings to cover the oven. I don't think we talked about swing. I would put the fridge opening toward the eating area, because it's more convenient for taking out armloads of the stuff that gets put on the table (condiments, pickles, drinks, salads, etc.), where as stuff for prep gets put on the island, which is the same either way. The biggest problem I foresee would be a gigantabird that you want to clean in the big sink, if that sink is going in the corner, because you wouldn't be able to just shovel it over. If you'd prefer to have the door swing away from the kitchen, then you have to be sure that there's enough swing room. My Advantium is right next to my fridge. The fridge opens really wide, but the oven handle is angled. I assume it's just for this reason. If your handles aren't angled, you can either put a stop to prevent the fridge door from opening too far, or put a spacer between the two so they don't bang. The issue is not putting dings in your fridge door. Having the door swing across the ovens also means that you have to be careful to fully close the oven before opening the fridge, which isn't usually a problem, but could be with competing kids. Train them while they're young to be aware of can't open the fridge when the oven's open, and when they're older it shouldn't be an issue. If any of this makes you uncomfortable, that would be a reason for moving the ovens, but you really will be upsetting the visual impact you're trying so hard to achieve. There's no one better than Buehl for a well working layout. If there were a functional issue with the one you and she developed, I promise you, it would have been fixed. What we've been working on here is taking what to my (experienced) eye, and Buehl's excellence, looks like an optimal layout and adapting it to your desire to make the kitchen fit a different aesthetic. Putting aesthetics first is not a bad choice. None of your options will be awful. The worst is that big sink in the corner, and, as you have already experienced in other kitchens, it can be lived with and worked around. There's nothing in G that makes me say, "That kitchen makes me want to rip it out," which I really have said many times in the last five years. I'm seriously blunt when people are going seriously wrong (though recently I did it because I didn't absorb a prep sink that was in the words but not the plan, and I thought she was specifically trying to make it work with a barrier island and no prep sink--my bad.) You're not in that situation here. Whatever you do will be good enough. I just think, equally bluntly, that if you're going to sacrifice optimal function for looks, you'd better optimize looks, or you're just getting middlin' everything. Nothing really great. Nothing really horrible. But who wants to go through all this for meh?
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lisa- Thank You for throwing it out there. I like to look at different ideas b/c in the end once we decide we'd like to feel confident that we explored our options! I thought the basement part might work but right away my dh pointed out that it makes it really hard to bring large things downstairs with the curve. (We have that now and its very difficult) In the Dining Room, would those buffets have cabinetry above for dish storage, etc? I like it b/c I was thinking tall cabinetry without the counter space but that would be nice : ) I definitely "get" what you're saying about banquettes not being for everyone. We plan to be here 10 years and if that works out maybe much longer. My husband and I do like the banquette idea especially b/c it keeps the area open from kitchen to DR and it's just a different "look" for us. We'd only use the bench side when we have a larger amount of people. That being said we're still open to not doing it if we think it won't work. Also, couldn't a new buyer just take out the built in seat if they don't like it and turn it back to a traditional DR? I'm not asking that sarcastically but it wouldn't seem the worst of things. OR- we could do a separate piece of furniture that's not built in too right? I think someone said Ballard has them. IF anyone sees others let me know. I know they have great fabrics that are kid friendly too : ) I wonder how long they come? THANKS EVERYONE! I so love this : )
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igloochic
12 years ago
But does one want to look at dishes while trying to relax in the living roomor dining room?
elphaba_gw
12 years ago
It took me a while but I finally understand why so many LOVE the really large kitchen sinks. It is because they do a fairly good job of hiding dishes from what I can tell. So for that reason, I would hope that ella70 plans for that.

She didn't ask but I would try to move the fridge closer to the stove - probably put them both on one wall opposite sink and use other wall for wide but relatively shallow pantry (floor to ceiling cabinets) and and maybe counter space for gadgets, and/or maybe "beverage center" between pantry and living room for coffee pot/microwave and wine rack?

I can't think of an optimum use for the corner except Pantry or sink. Both have drawbacks - always tradeoffs. My idea above doesn't really take advantage of the corner I know.

Sorry I'm rambling but I think this may be one plan that would really benefit from having the "elevation" drawings and 3d rendering drawings that designers and Home Depot do. The Pantry in the corner may appear to be "looming". Might be better if it is adjacent to the fridge and/or some other vertical element.

Seems like there is a lot of nice room but things are too spread out maybe. I had similar problems on my earlier plans but my later ones are really tightening up on the "triangle" and I like them much better I think but I'm still thinking.
mydreamhome
12 years ago
I prefer the 7x4 island. 3 reasons--it allows for a row of cabinets on the family room side of the island for added storage space (you can never have to much storage space in a kitchen), it allows for greater work/counter surface (you can never have too much counter space)& the size and proportion of the island is a better fit in the room vs a skinnier island IMO.

I prefer the sink to be directly across from the range--we have this setup and everyone kept telling me I didn't want it because I didn't have a landing zone directly across from the range--but it works fabulously. You & I both have plenty of landing space to either side of the sink as well as to either side of the range. Also, any reason in particular for such a small sink when you have so much space? It looks like a 24" sink. If it's you're only sink, and since you have the space, I would do no smaller than 33".

What do you think about this layout? If you like, I can see about some elevations for you too.

As far as looking at dishes goes--if you're doing an undermount sink, make sure you get one at least 9" deep which will actually be 10" under the countertop surface by the time it's installed. Lots of dirty dishes are easily placed out of sight completely in this scenario.

Hope this helps!
mydreamhome
12 years ago
Sorry--posted the wrong layout in previous follow up comment. Here's the right one...
elphaba_gw
12 years ago
Found a diagram on houzz that has the sink in a corner against a wall. Also includes a smaller prep sink on a smaller island - pantry could be to the right of the fridge where the double ovens are in the picture, maybe.
[https://www.houzz.com/photos/thornlea-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-toronto-phvw-vp~81545-Kitchen-traditional-kitchen-toronto[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/thornlea-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-toronto-phvw-vp~81545)
mydreamhome
12 years ago
Also, it looks like you have 2' of space between the cabinetry & the door on the range wall--any particular reason? If not, I would go ahead and extend the run of cabinets in that direction--here's an option for that using a 36" range instead of a standard 30":

Have you thought about moving the fridge to the range wall? Here's my thinking on that--the door on the range wall opens in the direction of the kitchen-it has to "land" somewhere when open so why not let it land on the side of the fridge? That would also allow more light into the kitchen/family room area (visually opening the space up even more) from the window on the side wall. With the fridge next to the window, it blocks that light from fully entering the kitchen area. Here's a mock-up of what that configuration could look like :
elphaba_gw
12 years ago
Corner pantry with fridge adjacent - doesn't appear looming (IMO)

[https://www.houzz.com/photos/lot-77-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-vancouver-phvw-vp~118338-77-Kitchen-traditional-kitchen-vancouver[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/lot-77-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-vancouver-phvw-vp~118338)

Here's a pantry in the corner picture that has a tiny counter between the fridge.
[https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-calgary-phvw-vp~48110-traditional-kitchen-calgary[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-calgary-phvw-vp~48110)

I did a search www.houzz.com for "pantry in the corner" - (could also do "corner pantry") and came up with a lot of visuals you might find helpful.
ella70
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks so much for all you opinions! I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. I am a bit overwhelmed at choosing the right layout, but it is still in the planning stage so I have time to change it so that it is the best possible! Here are the links for my inspiration pictures. I tried to layout my kichen similarly. The sink in the corner was an option, but I really do want to keep the pantry if it will look okay. I love it because it will hold all of my food.. I really do like the fridge on the same wall as my oven, but liked having all of the cabinets near the oven for pots and pans. If you think that I will have a more functional layout with the fridge on that wall, I will move it! Would I just then have a few uppers and lower drawers on the other wall next to the pantry? I kept those few feet near the back door for my water cooler, but can move it to the other wall, since I will have more room without the fridge there. You are so right about the garbage as well. The cabinet under the sink is basically wasted space, so I will add a garbage in that cabinet.I will play with the planner tonight and post my new pics.
Here are the two pics that I really liked originally
[Description[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/arch-frames-view-to-kitchen-tropical-kitchen-charleston-phvw-vp~171163)

Description
For the second link, I couldn't link it directly to the kitchen photo. It is the kitchen picture of that house!
One of the pics has the fridge on the other wall, and it didn't look too bad, but I am not sure of the size of the room either..
mydreamhome
12 years ago
ella-I really like that inspiration pic of the white kitchen! You could do exactly what they did on either the right or left walls on your right wall. It would be absolutely stunning!
ella70
Original Author
12 years ago
thanks mydreamhome! I think I am going to use that picture to revise. What planner did you use? Your pictures looked great and really helped me. I used the ikea planner, but didn't like the pictures as much as yours! Thanks again for all your advice and I will post my new plans once I have tweaked them.
As far as the sink goes, I have been contemplating a single bowl sink. I have a double bowl now and never use the smaller side! It is approx 23" wide..
mydreamhome
12 years ago
No problem Ella70! I use SmartDraw for my layouts & elevations. It wasn't free, but it was easy & quick to learn to use (without having to read a manual) and it has paid for itself MANY times over. I figure since I enjoy working with it and my projects are over (at least for now), I might as well help others. Afterall, I did receive ALOT of help on my plans from other GW members. If you like, I can do an elevation for you too. Just ask.

As far as the sink--we have a single D-bowl 23" wide sink in the laundry, a 33" wide rectangle sink with rounded corners as the prep sink and a 37" 30/70 sink in the clean-up zone. Like you, I have found that when one side of the sink is too narrow you end up not using it as it's more trouble than its worth. I could definitely make do with my 23" D-Sink as my kitchen sink, but even at a single bowl, I prefer the 33" in the kitchen.

On the trash can location--under the sink works if you prefer a short single trashcan. Also note that anytime someone needs to throw something away, they will be entering the prep & cooking zone. Putting the trash on the end of the island allows for a short or tall trashcan, double can pullout if you desire, trash is still conveniently located for prep purposes, the prep/clean-up zone remains open and it is perfectly situated for an obstacle-free cleanup after meals. Here's a clean-up flow layout comparison for you--

Just something to think about...
threebees
12 years ago
I have a vey similar layout. Corner pantry, stove on back wall and single bowl sink in the island. I have my garbage on one side of the sink and the dishwasher on the other. It works perfectly. I think it would be awkward to have the garbage and sink adjacent to each other especially if you scrape your dishes, rinse them and then put them in the dishwasher . Just my thoughts.
huango
12 years ago
I am not posting to vote on sink location, but to point out an observation. Why do you have so many small cabinets?
In a small kitchen, I would think you want to make the cabinets as large as possible to hold as much as possible. What would go into those 15" cabs flanking the stove? Or the 12" drawers next to sink?
After taking into account the 3/4" inch for the cabinet sides, the 1-3" for the sliding rails, you're not left with a lot of space in those small cabinets.

I had to give up a lot of symmetry for increased storage in my kitchen, but boy, do I love my 36" drawers!

Just my thougths..

Amanda
ella70
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks again! mydreamhome, your layout is awesome! Thank you. My only question would be the position of the garbage. The one I am getting is 18" wide. The rest of my cabinets that I would add (facing the living room) would be 12" wide. How would I finish that off? Would that still look good? I will definitely look into a larger sink. Thanks.
I am going to purchase that software and play with it this weekend. I will post my layout to show you when I am done. Again, thank you!!
Three bees, thanks! I was still a bit worried about how big the pantry would look, but I am feeling much better about it, especially after all the wonderful suggestions given here!
Amanda - I am going to change the size of the cabinets by the stove. I also want wider drawers for my pots and pans. I actually received my finished house plans today, and am able to push both the window and door over a bit, giving me a bit of room to lengthen the run of cabinets.

Which island plan do you prefer form and function

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