If they are not the property management company/agent of that specific property, they might not know or are just inexperienced in that Dept.
Get an experienced agent working for you who will be responsible to obtain that info.

This is an experienced owner/broker and the listing agent on the property I'm interested in. I think he has a "lock" on the community. Which sucks for the people who are trying to sell because we MIGHT have bought the house, if he'd given us any info on it - I don't even know what the taxes are! But if it's going to be amateur hour we'll look for a community where standards are more professional.

If we ever sell our primary residence I'm going FSBO. I can't believe this guy totally tried to sell himself and specifically ignored my questions about his clients' property!

"I can't believe this guy totally tried to sell himself and specifically ignored my questions about his clients' property!"
That's why I suggested to have someone work for you.

Sometimes rents & expenses arent sent unless the inquirer has actually seen the property & made some preliminary arrangements for purchase.

I think it's premature to have someone working for me. Right now I am trying to get a feel for different areas and obviously I need to understand what homes will actually cost to own before I can narrow my search down to one community. Otherwise I will waste my time and multiple agents' time.

sylviatexas - really!? That's good to know, but very surprising. How can someone commit to purchasing without knowing what it will actually cost them? Do you know what the rationale for that policy is?

I realize that a prior year's rental history doesn;t necessarily predict the future, but it gives me a ballpark idea.

Thanks for the info.

I own a second home in the desert here. Right now it is rented for the season. I may list it for sale after this season. The agent I may list with, will not know the rental income, only the rental agent knows that. Of course, a good agent will ask me. I know as sylviatexas said, financials are not given for rental property (multi-family) until an offer has been accepted, but every rental property I've seen has a setup sheet with an overview. I think for a second home, your agent is not prepared to answer your questions, of course he should be. Just ask him to get the info and get back to you, he may not think your are worth the work, I've also had agents like that. Also,, many people do not want their finances to be made public, they only release it to accepted buyers.

Last year I listed and sold a 4 plex. When getting many calls about the property from buyers, and some agents, I'd give them the sales price and ask them to come into the office if they wanted additional information. The ones that were serious would make an appointment and get all the info. they wanted.

"Last year I listed and sold a 4 plex. When getting many calls about the property from buyers, and some agents, I'd give them the sales price and ask them to come into the office if they wanted additional information. The ones that were serious would make an appointment and get all the info. they wanted."

Why? Why couldn't you just provide the info? Didn't you have it prepared already?

I'd have a real problem with that if I were a seller paying you to sell my property. I don't think 5% or 6% means I own you, but if it's costing me $75k to sell a vacation home my listing agent can darn well provide simple info rather then expecting out of town buyers to come into his/her office.

And as a buyer, why should I waste any more time with someone who has already not done what they said they would?

cmarlin - i did ask for the rental info and he said he would send it. But it is good to know that rental info is not always provided. I don't quite understand why, but if that's the way it is then I guess I'll have to resign myself to wasting a lot of time.

"Why? Why couldn't you just provide the info? Didn't you have it prepared already? "

Many owners consider that information to be confidential financial information. Kind of like exposing your tax returns to the world. In the world of commercial and investment real estate it's not uncommon for that kind of information to be shared only with serious buyers. Someone willing to come into an office might be considered more serious than a general phone call.

I work in an area with many investment properties. If the information is not available, for confidentiality reasons, prior to an offer being written it becomes the first contingency that must be met. ie-receipt of rental income history, leases, fees, etc. must be delivered by seller and approved by buyer.

Thanks rrah - that makes of sense. Obviously a broker shouldn't disclose info that his client doesn't want disclosed. I'm not sure why the client wouldn't want it disclosed, though. Is it because people don't want other landlords to get a hold of their rent rolls and go after their tenants? Or is it more of a reluctance to reveal personal, individual financial details? Do you see many deals fall though once the info is released?

Do you think this is likely to be the case with a single-family vacation home? I don't consider a beach house stricly an investment property because the rental return is so low (well, I suspect - I don't know for sure). We'd be buying it as a vacation home and potential retirement lot. The rental income would just be a bonus to help us offset costs.

"Why? Why couldn't you just provide the info? Didn't you have it prepared already?"
I have them talk to the property manager who has all the data. Only one unit was rented when I took the listing, by the time it sold (5 weeks later), all units were rented. The data was not static during my listing period and seldom is.

It's just too easy for, say, the seller's ex (who wants the child support increased), or a neighbor who twisted her ankle at the seller's house & wants to see if there are enough assets to make it worthwhile to sue, or a nosey neighbor like Mrs Kravitz, or a business competitor who wants to woo the tenants away but doesn't want to offer them any lower rent than absolutely necessary (& then buy the vacant property at a lower price!), or *anybody* to pick up a phone & ask for information that a seller wouldn't want divulged to anyone but the buyer.

Think of it from the opposite perspective:
If you're selling your motorcycle shop, do you want your Realtor to hand out your P & L, tax returns, balance sheets, etc to anyone who calls on the phone?

Even if the seller's agent is sitting there looking at the figures, he/she can't blurt it out on the phone if it's not in the seller's best interests or if the seller has given other instructions.

I would suggest going to the auditor/recorder site for the properties you are interested in and see what information you can find out there first. If you get too much runaround with a broker, you can always contact the owner directly. We had an experience with a rotten agent that gave us the idea to do this.

We went to an open house and liked it so well we contacted the listing agent to see it again. The listing agent was awful. We were stuck in traffic and called to tell her we were running late and would be there 10 minutes later than arranged. She threw this up in our face when we got there. Her husband was standing next to her and acted like we didn't exist. He was such a sourpuss he wouldn't even respond when we said hello. The agent was condescending. She waved her hands around and talked down to us like one might speak to a small child. When we asked her questions about the house she cut us off or would say loudly "Wow, I don't know the answer to that question."

The last straw was when she tried to tell us she would be representing us as well as the seller. We smiled and said we already had representation and thanked her for showing us the house. Then we went home and sent a letter to the owner telling him we were interested in the house ONLY if we never had to deal with this person again. The owner responded and said he would have someone else from the office meet with us. This person was better. We made an offer, they accepted. The house failed inspection. We kept track of the listing and noticed a month later that the owner had switched realty companies.

I'm sure there are more than a few owners who would not be pleased with how their properties are being represented. This is why it pays to find out as much about a property as possible before contacting the broker, etc. If I were selling and someone wanted the information you asked for, I'd provide it or give you a darn good reason why not.

Sylviatexas - those are good examples. I guess I just figure that for *this particular* type of property the rental info isn't really all that significant. The significant thing is that it is selling for X dollars, not that it generates Y dollars in rent. So I don't think the motorcyle shop analogy holds. But it's good to get that perspective. Thank you.

dreamgarden - he didn't refuse to send the info, he just failed to send it after he said he would. He sent marketing materials for his office instead. It could have been an oversight. I agree with you about how many owners would not be pleased with how their properties are being marketed. It's amazing the variation in quality of real estate agents. We had a terrific agent last time we moved.

Another possibility is that this house is a teardown and he just didn't want to tell me that flat-out for fear of it getting back the the owners and offending them. It's clearly a potential teardown, but that isn't a problem for me as long as it's just obsolete and not structurally unsound.

you ought also to be able, from publicly available sources (like the newspaper, etc.) to find out what the *current rates* in that neighborhood are for such renal properties.

perhaps you could charge MORE rent than the old owner has been charging to his longtime tenants. Perhaps you would decide to charge less. Maybe the old owner has been able to keep it filled for many weeks because of his personal contacts, etc. Or you could do better, etc.

But surely you could figure out, "If I owned *ANY* vacation home in this neighborhood, perhaps even this close to the beach, what could I charge people to rent it from me for a week?" And surely somewhere you could find out peak rental times, etc.--which weeks and months are slow, which are fast, etc.

This guy isn't representing YOU; he has no obligation to help you gather this sort of research for your own calculations. He's representing the seller. And for all you know, there are other people interested who have already DONE their homework.

Even were I the agent, I wouldn't want to do THAT much work for someone who has just told me they are in the PRELIMINARY stages of looking, and don't even know if they want that particular community! And I would not expect someone to tell me what that current property brings in, until I was pretty sure I was interested in that community. i think 'd want it before making a definite offer, or else I'd have a big contingency that let me out without penalty once I'd seen it.

But I also wouldn't decide NOT to buy a property just because that particular broker was lame.

"Thanks rrah - that makes of sense. Obviously a broker shouldn't disclose info that his client doesn't want disclosed. I'm not sure why the client wouldn't want it disclosed, though. Is it because people don't want other landlords to get a hold of their rent rolls and go after their tenants? Or is it more of a reluctance to reveal personal, individual financial details? Do you see many deals fall though once the info is released?"

Solie--I'm laughing because I never considered the possibility of one landlord trying to get new tenants by getting copies of the leases. (Sometimes if something is not in the realm of things one would do personally, it doesn't occur to them.) Mostly because people don't want to share personal and business financial info.

Surprisingly not too many accepted offers fall through for this reason. I have written offers with the contingency, but usually by the time we are at the "offer point" most sellers realize it is a serious buyer and will provide the info ahead of time. It's in that due diligence stage that's it's most likely to fall apart.

An additional piece of advice--Is this a place you would consider without any rental income? If so then pursue it as if there is none. Vacation rental income can vary tremendously from year to year. Would the house be worth the price without the income? It's an interesting area in which I live and work--one end of town is a college full of rentals. The other end is a lake with a large resort community. My last client that bought a condo in the resort just ignored the rental income and made the offer based on the value of the unit alone. You may also want to speak to an accountant if you will have a mortgage. There are many tax implications with a second home, especially if it is rented.

I hope you find a wonderful place.

Talley Sue - Why all the CAPS?!

I don't understand what you mean by "Even were I the agent, I wouldn't want to do THAT much work for someone who has just told me they are in the PRELIMINARY stages of looking, and don't even know if they want that particular community!"

I didn't think throwing an extra page into an envelope is "THAT much work." I don't know if you have read the thread, but he is the listing agent on the property and already gave me two ballpark figures and told me he would send additional information. Instead he sent very general information about himself and the neighborhood.

I've already researched publicly available sources to get an idea of rental rates for the area. But I don't know the area that well and specific location info is hard to come by when I'm out of town. I can find rental info, but it's impossible to know if I'm comparing apples to apples. It's also difficult to get an idea of occupancy rates and management fees.

And of course he has no direct obligation to help me, but he does have an obligation to the owner he is representing. And IMHO that obligation includes responding to specific inquiries about the property. Now, if it's not standard to provide that info (and judging from some of the helpful responses I have received here that may be the case), fine. But then he shouldn't have promised it.

"An additional piece of advice--Is this a place you would consider without any rental income? If so then pursue it as if there is none. Vacation rental income can vary tremendously from year to year. Would the house be worth the price without the income?"

I think that's very good advice. But I'm one of this people who has to research everything to death. So even if I would purchase it without considering the rental income (and based on the estimates he gave me the net rents aren't much compared to the price), it makes me feel like I'm "flying blind" not the have the info. But I guess I'll have to get used to it if we pursue this. I'll probably get more comfortable with it after we've actually started seeing places.

It sounds like the agent thought he gave you what you were looking for when he gave you the guesstimates for rents you mention in your first post.
You told him you were in the very preliminary stages of looking for a home.

I think his response to send you some information on properties and the area in general was spot on. He also let you know information about him so you could decide when you were ready to start looking seriously, if he would be a good fit as an agent for you. Pretty standard stuff.

Perhaps you could have been clearer about the information you were expecting from him. I looked at the list of things you thought you would be getting. Wow! All that on a place you haven't even seen and when you have been clear that you are just starting looking.

I am actually surprised that you seem so outraged that you may not be interested in persuing this property.
I am also confused as you state "If we ever sell our primary residence I'm going FSBO. I can't believe this guy totally tried to sell himself and specifically ignored my questions about his clients' property!" and then later state "It's amazing the variation in quality of real estate agents. We had a terrific agent last time we moved."

So you had a great agent, but now based on one agent who you have never met, but wasn't able to mind read the specifics of what you were looking for, you would FSBO your next house. Hmm.

Hobokenkitchen - I'm not outraged, was just initially irritated becasue I was really looking forward to getting the information. I was clear about what I was looking for and he said that it would be provided. If he didn't have it already put together, he certainly didn't mention it. I admit I am a little annoyed that people seem to think I'm asking the poor guy to do a ton of extra work for no possible reward. I was assuming he already had that info - If he didn't all he had to do was say so. I don't expect him to gather information for me, just convey it. It's not like I was asking him to take me sightseeing for a weekend.

I'm not annoyed about it any more due largely to the helpful responses I received here. I think that he didn't provide the absolutely best possible service to the people selling that home, but it's really not that big of a deal.

I worked as an agent for a brief time so I'm not basing my opinion of them on little information. I have seen/heard some really outrageous things. That experience did leave me highly suspicious of agents and very afraid of getting into a situation where I am forced to be dependent on an agent that might do similar things to me. But I always like to acknowledge that there are some very good ones, because there obviously are. But I can see now that the way I put it sounded very angry and strange. My bad.