Rose, I hear you. What they call it is "fiends with benefits" It seems like sex is just another bodily function like going to the toilet. What makes this especially dangerous is the prevalence of sexually transmitted disease. Yes, morals are a thing of the past in a large part of our young society......but thankfully, not all. Dottie

I think we are seeing the swing of the pendulem and it probably has a lot farther to swing before we see it swing back the other way. We might even see a forced swing if things get too bad. it might take this generation another generation before they swing back
I hope not.
I think a good place to start is to eliminate the erectile disfunction and extender ads from dinnertime and other time TV. What has happened to the men of our country anyway.

I think that kids only know what they were taught... I blame parenting more than anything else.

(flame away!)

I blame adults--parents, media, etc. We need to be sure to clean up our language and behavior when we have our children. Then we need to be sure that their friends also have the same kind of upbringing. We need to turn off tv and radio and movies and recordings that do not reflect our standards when we have little ones around. It begins and ends with parents, but others are to blame too.

I don't believe it begins and ends with parents. I think it is 95% genes. I think the language is for shock value to older people and to their peers it is "cool". I tried to raise my children by example, but it didn't work. My sister said I was the best mother she has ever known and she can't figure out what happened to my boys to make them so different. I told her oldest son is just like our dad, doesn't see the need to work. My youngest is just like his dad, weak and lets his wife rule him. She thought for a minute and said, "you are right". I do think TV has a big effect on young people. Makes them feel unworthy if they are not as slim, attractive or rich as celebs.

Yes, morals today certainly aren't what they were when I was growing up.

Yes, part of the blame lies at the foot of the parents and communities these children live in.

But a big part of it? I believe, is the life cycle of civilization. Most great civilizations self-destruct when they get to be about 200 years old. We're on borrowed time. If you aren't aware of what was going on during the demise of the Roman Empire--it wasn't much different than what we're seeing all around us today--hedonism, excessive sex, a general lack of morals, etc. You know what they say--those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

My DS, who is 24, doesn't use the F word or any cuss word because when he started using bad words for shock (back when he was 13) I put a stop to it then and there. I think it is a combination of everything today. Kids get away with using such language - no one tells them not to, plus you hear it on TV, radio and movies. So no big deal to them.

I also find it mind boggling how casually sex is viewed today. I was dating in the late 60's - early 70's, the generation of 'Free Love', and it wasn't as bad as it is today.

If they are young and trying to fit in they may not realize what kind of image they are presenting to the outside world. In the end though the person has to take the responsibility for their own character. They can choose to stop using such language and to be moral if they want.
Clare

I don't believe most people are that way, I think we only hear about the bad stuff and not enough about the good people. I have more faith in people than that. As far as the sex goes women are just doing what men have done for generations, but for different reasons. I don't approve of anyone having casual sex, male or female, it's far to dangerous. I do believe that if aids and other serious sexual diseases become to rampant, people will change. That has happened over and over in past history.

I was shocked to read a comment from 'A Proud Grandfather' in the advice column in today's Chicago Tribune. He was responding to someone upset about honoring unwed mothers with baby showers. He said he had thirteen grandchildren, and three of them were out of wedlock...and he loved them all. Jeez! I wanted to ask who is paying to raise these kids -- but I guess the answer is: We are.

I'm so tired of interviews with and stories about struggling single mothers, often with multiple children, where it appears each child was fathered by a different man, none of whom are 'in the picture' financially or even in a supportive role for these children.

I'm not talking about women made single mothers because their husbands abandoned them or who divorced rotten DH's. There are plenty of men whose 'in-wedlock' kids are going without because they don't care, but it isn't due to their wives/ex-wives stupidity.

As for young women/girls sleeping around -- have females changed to have the same nonchalant attitude as many males about 'sex as just an itch to be scratched', anywhere, any time, with any one? Do these gals feel 'empowered' by these actions? (Not dumb enough to feel 'loved' or 'cherished' I guess.)

How empty this sounds: 'sex' without intimacy.

Babies without nurturing, caring fathers. 'Sperm donors', 'ova donors', babies made to order with no concern for their needs for connection/information as adults. Men and women who make children they have no intention of caring for -- in laboratores or on the street, what's the difference?

We're in pretty big trouble when human life is held so cheap.

Are morals a thing of the past?
I wondered the same thing when I read about all the young people sexting nude or nearly nude pictures. It seems they lack morals and ever self respect.

There is a lot of blame to go around I do believe that no matter how well you bring up your child as soon as they get what I call "outside influence" grade school on up they are no longer your kids and while living under your roof you have to lay down some laws nothing is going to change their following their own leads and that of the crowd or people they choose to follow. This is not saying there anren't bad parents around and there are many struggling mothers who have to raise a child alone who do a good job of being both mom and dad but those people who are quick to blme parents alone sometimes act too smug . My own example proves my point I was raised very well etc I also had a stubbornness to my nature and wanted to do things my way etc. I turned out ok haha but. . . .

I think boys and girls should be held to the same standards. If the girls are sleeping around they are only doing what boys have been more able to get away with. The girls shouldn't be held to a different standard than the boys. If you think poorly of these young women that do this then I hope you think just as poorly about the boys.

I don't have a problem with the behavior, I have an issue with the flouting of it.

As a whole, I do believe that morals have taken a dive. And as Minnie said, there is plenty of blame to go around. I think that we, as parents, are partly to blame (okay, mostly). Every generation says "I want my kids to have the things I never had", and that usually means getting things without having to earn them. It might make a parent feel good, but it is not teaching our children anything except to expect something for nothing.

Also, the households where one parent is at home full time decreases every year. With the cost of living, it is often necessary for both parents to work outside the home. Sad, but true. And when parents are absent, so is teaching and guiding. Kids are left to figure things out on their own - or not.

Environment comes into play as well. See the above paragraph. Where are the kids really when they are "home alone"? They are bored because they have nothing to do (see my first paragraph) and they often end up making bad choices and getting into trouble.

I also think that part of it is genetics, as Stargazzer suggested, but I don't think the number is as high as the percent given. I have two kids. Raised them the same, yet they are as different as night and day.

The kids can call it what they want, but I still believe it is unhealthy and wrong.
They cannot live this evening life without dangerous aftermath.

Ask my kids.

Trin

When we first moved to Texas, our across the street neighbors came over to introduce themselves. A nice couple, he ran a car repair shop and she was a counselor. They also had their 13-year-old pregnant daughter with them. They "wished" she hadn't gotten pregnant! The father of the baby was 16, and by the time the baby was born, was in prison, and the parents took the girl to visit him! What in the heck were they thinking!
So, most of the lack of morals is due to parenting, in my opinion. A good swift smack on the nether regions; setting an example; and telling your children you love them, but . . . should do more to improve the morals of youngsters than all the counseling, peer review groups and hand-holding.

I was shocked when I found out most young people today do not consider oral sex "sex". Girls supposedly do it to please their boyfriends and avoid pregnancy, and they "think" they can still call themselves "virgins". Disgusting.

Azzalea, I agree with you!

It also depends on what part of the country you live in. I do believe there is not as much in rural countries, I don't see alot here, I know it is there, but for most the kids are too busy either working, school or activies to do this. Yes they see it on TV, but after school, farmwork, basketball etc not much time left. Everyone is to blame people, media, and even kids themselves bragging on either the cell phones or facebook etc. Look at the way the average woman dresses, and the ads for all sorts of enhancement crap. Even the so call good magazines have ads that a few years ago would not be allowed. Most due it to get attention from anyone. I do not think it is going to get any better, but for me, I just ignore them (when I can) and hopefully the fads will fade away.

I think it's a combination of a lot of things.and yes there is enough blame to go around.

I also think they get a lot of it from these tv shows like the batchelor,and all those shows where they jump in and out of bed the same day they meet another guy.And OMG have you ever flipped thru daytime tv soap operas?? They are downright disgusting.Seems morals have gone way down the tube.JMO.
Kathi

Funny, but I wondered the same thing about some of my classmates back in the late 70s. I'm also currently working with a 50+ year old who is dating and sleeping with multiple men at the same time. Just the other day, I had to stop her (tried to anyway) when she started telling us a little TMI in the breakroom.

I have to disagree with Donna too, don't believe the sahm thing at all. Neither of my parents were home alot when I was growing up. I didn't even start dating until I was 19. A friend of mine who had a mom at home all the time started having sex when she was 15.

I also don't believe rural kids are less likely to have sex. I grew up in a small town and am living in one now. Both farming communities and there are/were plenty of pregnant teens.

YES... definetly.

I think morals have gone by the way-side. Along with respect and religion. So much so it is sickening.
Leslie

Kathsgrdn, in no way did I say that all children of SAHM's had good morals. I simply stated my opinion that not having a parent at home may contribute to some children having a lack of good morals. It wasn't a blanket statement and not meant to offend anyone, dear.

Well, first of all, I'm not sure that this change in morals happened all that recently. I remember something called the sixties (well, I heard about it anyway). Girls have been having sex and babies out of wedlock for a long time. There used to be a lot more shame involved but it happened.

I'm less concerned with the sex and babies and foul language than I am with greed. When did people get so damn greedy and self-centered? There are still good people in this country but unfortunately most of them are not in office or running large corporations. So many people just want to get theirs, to heck with what the consequences are.

Executives feeling entitled to bonuses when their companies would have gone under without a gov't bailout.

Mortgage companies lending people money who couldn't afford it.

Credit card companies charging outlandish interest rates and fees to those paying their bills to make up for the fact that they offered credit to people who the companies should have known would not be able to pay it back.

People who make a living scamming the government and insurance companies out of food stamps, disability, disaster relief, etc.

People who abuse the return policies of stores.

The list could go on and on and on.

I have to comment on the "life cycle of civilization...Most civilization self destruct when they are about 200 years old"

This time is isn't just us....it is world wide....I think the whole world is about to self destruct...

One of the biggest things I've noticed over the years is ....if you did have sex you didn't tell anyone about it....now it is a common thing to talk about....They seem to think you are not normal if you DON'T have it.

In answer to the question....Yes I think morals have taked a huge dive.

Kath said Funny, but I wondered the same thing about some of my classmates back in the late 70s.
I agree completely. I don't think this is a new thing. There have always been groups that do and groups that don't.

No matter how well children are raised with good morals, once those hormones start raging, things happen. Short of caging one's kids until they are 21, I don't see things changing. Unwed pregnancies have been going on for many, many years, but were more "hush hush" as the girls were sent far away to an aunt or grandparent's house. Modern technology...news, computers, tv, camera phones, texting, etc. all don't help the situation. We used to blame the boys, but remember, it takes "two" to tangle. Perhaps there is a moral decline or perhaps we are just more "aware" of the times.

I went to high school in a very small town- one traffic light and a graduating class of just 50- in the late 1980s. Four girls from my class were pregnant and had their babies before we graduated, pretty high ratio. A boy was arrested for hiding a handgun in his locker. A boy in my class was arrested for breaking into homes, stealing credit cards, checks and identification, and using them. He was in my calculus class, an honors student! He spent graduation in jail. His co-thief was a year older, a freshman in college at the time, and pre-law! Stopped that career. A woman who worked with my dad moved her daughter from their "city" school to our school b/c she was experimenting with drugs. When our choir was performing at the elementary school that girl was so high she stepped down from the risers and walked off the stage like walking off a cliff- just stepped off and fell the 8 feet or so and passed out. She still found drugs in our little school. It was a small farming community with a big Mennonite population. There are morals that people put on like a robe for others to see, then there are the morals they actually live.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a bit. This is a slight exaggeration of my opinion. I think the issue is more complicated than any single post.

I actually think that being judgemental shows a lack of morals and values. I know we all know how pregnancy works, a teen girl doesn't get there by herself. Why is it the girl who is blamed for a lack of morals? There are middle eastern countries who treat women like that, hold them accountable for the moral choices of men.

I wonder if the morality teens might have displayed generations ago was more a sense of shame than morality. Asking of a young woman having casual sex "Where are her morals?" the real question being asked is "Why isn't she ashamed of herself?" Morals and shame are not quite the same thing. And the question being asked about her friends and family is really "Why aren't they ashamed of her?" Well, let's just put a burqua on her.

Talking about the behavior of 20-something and teens are two different things. A 20-something who has her own life, pays her own way, no kids, only responsible to herself is doing what has been acceptable to her male peers for generation. A lot of test driving. It's not fair to have one standard of behavior for men, but a higher one for women. People stopped questioning men's behavior a long time ago, if they ever did. Even our western society expects women to be the keeper of morality and purity, while men are "just being men."

When we're talking about teens, I see a lack of self-worth more than a lack of morality. Our society teaches girls that they are valued by their appearance and sexuality. No matter how good her parents are, the pervasive message to a teen girl is "Be sexy!" That message is so strong a girl would have to grow up in a cave to not be affected by it. How can we stand by and let that message surround them, then blame them for the results? Do we seriously expect teenagers to be strong enough, experienced enough, to resist that kind of influence? It's our responsibility to teach the young people in our lives that they are worth protecting, even if they aren't our own children.

I watched part of the kids choice awards on TV with my kids. A famous female group performed (I want to say Pussycat Dolls, I don't remember). They were dressed in spiked heels, short skirts, push-up bustieres... you get the idea. I wanted to scream. That's fine for their concert of the Grammy awards, even. But this was on Nickolodean network, a kids' network, and called "KIDS' Choice." Seriously, the producers made a poor choice. They groups performing should have been advised to wear appropriate clothing for role models for kids. I talked to my kids about how disappointed I was in the adults who made the wardrobe choice. My 15 y/o DS said "Mom, that's how girls start dressing when they turn 13, it's just what they do." Oh, no, I said. It's not just "what they do." There is no busteire gene that just flips on when a girl turns 13. There is a desire to mimick "role models" that flips on, though. The choice to wear those costumes was irresponsible when they know they are not just being watched by kids, but really observed by kids who want to copy them.

I see girls in middle school dressing with way to much exposure. I honestly don't think they understand what message they are sending, just that it gets them attention and they look like celebrities. So there isn't really a lack of morals in that, it's a lack of leadership.

(Who asked if we get right to the point? LOL. Uh, me, no.)

"Morals" means different things to different people, and I think we're confusing "morals" with "mores." Many years ago, many people believed kissing on a first date meant loose morals. Social mores may change throughout the years, but having good morals is a constant, I believe. To me, a lack of morals means cheating, stealing, hurting other people.

I'm amazed at how many people consider themselves to be upstanding and moral, yet they don't at all mind hurting other people in various ways. I 'd rather have as a friend a girl who sleeps around than one who steps on other people to get what she wants.

stephanie-in-ga -- I'm GLAD you don't 'get right to the point'. I agree with all of your post except...

No, it doesn't feel 'fair' to set different standards for different genders, BUT it has ever been true that while a guy can leave and prosper, the teen mom usually faces a long, hard life -- worse if she repeats the mistake and ends up with even more fatherless children.

Since women KNOW where the responsibility falls, shouldn't we expect girls/women to also be aware of the dangers for themselves, for their female children, for the children that result from a (feigned?) ignorance of the facts of life.

I sure agree with you that by dressing pre-teens and teens like hookers we tell them that their value is to be attractive to men. THIS promotes self-esteem???

Yeah, chisue, we do need to teach our girls the fact that their consequences are much more severe than a boy's. That it's easy for *him* to say "nothing will happen" when he doesn't wear the belly around like a scarlet letter. Not b/c it's better morals, but b/c it's self preservation, they need to look out for their own best interests regardless of pressure. I have one DD, she's only 9 now, and I would not let her dress the way we've complained about in these posts, not while I buy her clothes. Heck, she thinks I'm mean now b/c I won't let her have a bikini. ;o)

I was with some other moms recently when one started talking about a girl she saw at the middle school who was clearly pregnant. This mom thought the girl should not be allowed to go to the school anymore, that she should be educated some other place. I was very upset by that. I couldn't hold my tongue. I was angry that these moms, women themselves who were young girls once, would be so viscious in their comments about this young girl. If she should be so ostercized, let's talk about the boy! The unspoken standard being "Well, boys will be boys. But girls should know better."

If my DD gets pregnant as a teen (never say never, every kid has a surprise in 'em), I can tell you, I will be on that boy's arse. It would NOT be just DD's "problem." That would bring out the worst of the momma bear in me, I think. I have 3 boys, too, the oldest is 15. They will not grow up seeing me blame just the girl in these situations, thinking I think it's OK for boys to walk away unscathed. If they ever get a girl friend pregnant as teens, this is one momma who will NOT let a boy walk away. When we see or hear of teen pregnancy situations, they hear what I think about that. It's NOT "Oh, what a bad girl." It's "learn from other kids, the consequences will change all your lives."

I want my boys and girl to question what they see around them, why people make the choices they make, and feel empowered to make the best choices for themselves... and for the boy/girl friend in their lives. Respect for self, respect for others, respect for their futures. That's why I stopped that Kids' choice show to have that conversation while my kids were sitting there- to talk about what is a responsible action and what is not, why taking the celebrities and media too seriously is a problem... what subtle influences surround them and affect how kids think.

There I go, not getting to a point again. ;o)

I completely agree with everything Paula said. I feel that the sense of entitlement that so many individuals have in this country accounts for a great deal of what has happened in this country and how we all see things now. It starts with a little cheat on taxes, the *tinest* cheat we know we can get away with because of any reason you can think of. Or, claiming a bit more on insurance than you know is correct - even by one dollar. To me, it all comes down to a sense of personal entitlement - the line we normally hold in the sand keeps being moved because of circumstances rather than moral code we believe in.

On the other hand, if you are talking about sexual values, this is something that has changed a great deal over the centuries. There was no strict sexual code adhered to before Queen Victoria came along - women were in trouble if they fooled around because men would not be able to be sure that the children produced was theirs - and this is the reason that sexual codes were evolved in the first place - and probably why it is that women are held to a higher standard than men are held to.

However,that said and understood, I'm in a constant state of shock at what is considered to be not all that big a deal by so many.

The "sexting" thing has put me in a near coma. Has anyone heard of the expression "barsexual"?

It means that girls make out with girls in public gathering places (bars parties)....to turn males on and to make themselves more appealing to the males who are watching.

For THIS the women's movement worked so hard to break the glass ceiling??

I honestly wonder if the ratio of men/women were different if the accepted moral code of the young would be very different.

Right now there are more women than men, so the competition is high to gain a male mate because there aren't enough to comfortably go around.

Were this reversed, I suspect the sexual behavior would be very different - this is just personal conjecture based upon nothing at all.

rosemary 30 years ago in 1979 we wern't so innocent...

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.answers.com/topic/1979

OK, so WHY are young girls and women making themselves mere sexual objects -- by their dress, by posting nude photos, by sleeping around?

Anything to do with fear of REAL intimacy? Being an adult who COMMITS? (Oh-oh, you could get your heart broken. Or, no one would love the real me?) A lot of young adults today have grown up in a group -- daycare, pre-school, school, camp... and then it's a group you grope? Mom and Dad are divorced, re-married, divorced again and there's a lot of sleeping around right at home? Heck, I don't know. Makes me sad.

Donna, you didn't offend me, just giving my opinion.

If I said many of the points I was thinking, paula_pa might sue me for plagarism! ;)

Yes it's a complicated issue as so many are. And another suit could result from concerns about the gimmegimme and greed. But to play Devil's Advocate for a second, how do we tell our kids about "morals" and values and whatever else when the majority of marriages end in divorce? If we show our kids that VOWS are something you excuse by waving a document with the words irreconcilable differences on them, how do we expect to get respect for other things? A Commander in Chief going AWOL, selling appointments, pad the deductions on income tax, use the company car for vacation and grocery shopping, a closet full of office supplies, call in sick and go to the ball game and on and on. Problems don't seem to be limited to just horny teens. BTW, I recall a lot of talk about what kids did with farm animals in the "innocent" farm communities! They seemed to find time.

I think morals involve much more than just sex. To me, sex is but a part of the equation. Frankly, since society believes in marriage so little, the FWB is probably a lot more "moral" than breaking a vow depending on what your beliefs are on living up to your word.

Might as well not waste more time typing. I've given the FGs enough for today! Probably get pulled anyway!

What's "FWB" - "Free Wheeling Broads" "/Boys"?

I also find it distressing to hear a stream of what we considered foul language coming out of the mouths of many young people ... as part of their routine ... and I must confess that it troubles me more when it comes out of the females' mouths.

I learned at home (from Dad - Mom was sick from when I was about 6, and Grandma was old and "sexless" ... and Dad talked around the subject, mainly) and I accepted ... that, as someone here said, "It takes two to tango", that pregnancies don't happen all by themselves (at least, they didn't in those days) ... and even now, teens don't get pregnant all alone (not being interested in the "in vitro" game).

I learned that, while guys were inclined to try to get all that they could ... that if one was responsible for pregnancy, that he bore equal responsibility with the girl. Probably/usually more.

That there was the risk of some rather nasty diseases, as well.

We used to say that a pregnancy, if the girl chose to keep the child, which was unusual in earlier generations, it would pretty well ruin whatever hopes she might have had for a career ... but such wasn't so for the guys ... who seldom felt a responsibility to provide for the child.

I remember Dad saying that, in discussion with a female friend when he was young, she'd said that the girls had to not only deny the persistent guy ... they had to deny their own feelings,as well.

Not very fair, that.

Shouldn't responsibility be shared?

Possibly, after the child was born, when it was a week old, she should have taken it to the guy's house, saying that it was his turn to look after it for a week.

I remember my wife telling how disappointed? disgusted? her Mom, who'd initiated divorce and was nearing retirement was that a substantial number of the men that she'd dated aimed at going to bed, if not on a first date, often shortly afterward.

Maybe it's related to the length of time that movies show a scene on the screen ... if more than a few seconds for each, many modern folks feel that it's too slow ... and boring.

When they get old ... and life slows down some ... do you think that modern people'll find life so unutterably boring ...

... that suicide may seem an interesting alternative?

Good wishes for keeping your life in focus ... and perspective ... treating yourself and others with respect .. and encouraging the kids to follow similar patterns ... when you have the opportunity.

ole joyful

P.S. Many seem to feel that people, like machines, exist to serve them, if they can make it happen, and that while they are doing such explotation and after, they owe little more duty of fair treatment to the person than to the machine.

Which we've pretty well seen exemplified in the way in which corporations treat their staff ... and suppliers ... and, often, clients - though if they treat them too badly, they may lose their opportunity to serve that client in future.

o j

o j -- FWB is newtalk for Friends With 'Benefits' -- the crowd that plays house together.

You know, I typed that without really thinking, but maybe there's something to be explored in it. 'Playing House' is something children do in imitation of adults. Think about it.

Parents can only convey to their children what is considered right or wrong. It is up to the children to decide and take responsibility for their actions. Let's face it....once those hormones start ragging it is hard to ignore them. Just look at Sarah Palin's daugher..she even said that abstanance doesn't work. Now she has a child to raise.

What I find somewhat amusing is back in the "olden days" if an unmarried girl had sex and got pregnant she was sent away to have the child and was labeled as "loose". Now days when that happens she is just called a "single parent". And, for me, the title Single Parent is SO DARN confusing!!!! I'm sorry folks but when I hear the term Single Parent it makes me think...is this person Divorced, Widowed or (in olden language)...Loose. And please don't blast me for this but I just hate that title.

But I do agree with Minnie... the commercials for erectile disfunction and extender ads just add to the problem. (I do laugh at the "Smiling Bob" ad).

So..On that note...if you ever want to give kids advice on how to keep their morals (regardig sex) just tell them that "The Boys are Not Allowed on the Playground the Girls)
or "Life is like a Hockey Game...don't let one get past the Goalie".

SamKaren
your resident DJ

LMBO Samkaren! My 15 y/o DS plays hockey... that is definitely getting worked into the conversation somewhere! ;o)

Stephanie
Sometimes it takes a bit of humor to get the point across.

My folks put the fear of God into us regarding getting pregnant..that is why these sayings are so true.

My dad used to say "keep your legs crossed and nothing will happen".

What a wise man!
SamKaren