I like this new layout so much better than the others. It's incredibly functional, looks great and feels spacious. Because I don't like to prep facing a wall, I'd probably want a prep sink or at least a pull out trash bin in the island, but that's just me. I love the idea of using the coat closet as a pantry and it's just a few steps from the cooking area, but what will you do with your coats? (Sorry if this was already discussed; I didn't read the two previous threads completely).

What if the island became oriented the other way, extending to a point where it was aligned with the fridge and was an open table at that end with stools that pushed all the way under? The real overflow would be seated in the hall, on the occasions that you needed that. You could get 5 feet between the island and fridge on that side.

I would also consider pocket doors to close off the kitchen from the entry on occasion. I did that here with a front kitchen, with frosted glass doors.

We live in the SF bay area, weather is usually reasonable, but right now (with our very cramped space), that closet is already both pantry and pot/pan storage and we throw our coats on the sofa in the living room and lesser used coats/raincoats go on hooks behind the office door!

With the new layout, pots and pans go in the kitchen, about half of the pantry stuff (mom stuff) goes in to her cubby and that should leave enough room for coat hooks on one side wall and shelves on the other

Trash bin in the island -- hmmm, that sounds good.

I really like the idea of a prep sink, but I don't like washing veggies in a small sink so I wonder if it would get used. But I can see it being used for washing hands and cleaning the island/peninsula. Location? Next to the wall across from MW?

I have a new layout for comparison coming as well.

I keep the word "luxury" in mind when I look at this. I assume high-end products, yes? The plan works for me generally. Remind us how many cooks and how many eaters?
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If the sausage person uses a clamp-on tool, remember pull-out breadboard/cutting boards are great for that and it protects the fancy countertop from scarring by a vice. And you can sit on a stool while using one. I'd put one on the range wall. Additionally, this gives you more space for piles of dishes when island/peninsula is full or busy. And it would be a wonderful chopping station between sink and range. Great for older cooks, like me, who can't stand on feet for long periods. Having knees under the board improves the efficiency and the veg moves from sink to board to range very logically.

Also, picking up on the idea of a pocket door, consider a countertop extension that could connect the counters either side of door when door is shut. pull-up hinged? or a separate piece stored in the pantry? If you don't use a pocket door, you could still bridge the opening when more surface is needed. My in-laws had a pull-up countertop extension that closed off a walkpath and created a buffet area or extended work surface. Didn't use it often but when we needed it, it was a lot better than putting a card table there.

Or just eliminate the kitchen door altogether and enter kitchen through opening deeper down the wall at sitting/table area. We saw a kitchen like that recently in another posting--I recall the hall from front door that opened up down the hall. Sarah Susanka (The Not so Big House author) says that people are willing to walk a narrow area if it leads to a lighted area which has drawn you down there.

One problem with pocket door is that you have to carefully plan so that you don't assume you can nail into that space later. Can't have nails attaching items along the pocket.

FyI: A GW lurker emailed me saying she'd read my rants about including pull-out boards and decided to ignore. Now she's really regretful. Cost of retrofit is almost prohibitive compared to cheaper cost during build.

Palimpsest, we would very much like a pocket door (we have one for that opening now and it would sadly go away). But at 4 foot, I don't know there is enough wall space to hold one. It could maybe close from both sides, but there are switches by the front door which would complicate putting a two-sided pocket door there.

A 5' opening on the other side might mean we'd have to switch to using a lightweight fencing/gate for the dog. The dog respects 'doorways' but 5 foot might be asking too much. I might try some layouts like that (I have an L-shaped one that more closely matches how far out the fridge extends).

I still think a house with no table to eat at is odd, especially with an elderly resident.

I would consider making the island non-seating. You could add storage toward the kitchen side, and remove a bit of the overhang. Then, on the LR-facing side, either locate a table and chairs there, or consider whether you could add a banquette seat, with a freestanding table and additional chairs in front of it.

The extra storage in the island could be used for dishes--you have very little dish storage near the DW.

Here's another tweak. This moves the fridge back deep into the kitchen. Like a previous layout, but gives up some upper cabs for a window.

Do you think the stove and sink area are too close? Maybe another reason for a prep sink? If so, where would it go? Across from the fridge and next to the wall?

Another issue is our coffee center, which has a large grinder, an electric temperature-controlled teakettle and manual drip supplies (no espresso machine or the like). I'm thinking in the last layout it would go next to the toaster oven. It's a few steps to the sink, but the kettle often already has water in it and it's easy to carry to sink (the base plugs in and the kettle just lifts off).

Here's the 2D:

And the 3D:

I like the new one alot better. Have you considered the above the stove microwave? It may balance it asthetically better.

I have also been trying to figure out about the 3d software. did you have to pay for home designer? It is expensive? Thanks for your help.

This layout leaves more room for a freestanding table (next to/tucked under the countertop on the living room side than our current layout. It is part of the layout plan even though it's not drawn in above. We can even have a bigger table than we have now since this layout expands the living room square footage(which could be considered a living room/dining room (and remember -- the house was originally designed without a dining room, we are not taking one away).

I suspect, however, that because she wants to chat with our kitchen-dwelling guests, she will try to use the low-back counter chairs to be near them rather than sit farther away at a table. Thus, I want to design it so there is a safer counter seating option for her (high back chairs as low as possible). Already she chooses unsafe standing/sitting area when our cramped kitchen is very full. We try to shuffle seating, grab more chairs and set them in the hallway, if she wants to join in, but it is currently a hassle. I want to design it to be flexible. To accept a table if she wants it, but also to have as seating as safe as possible if she insists on being at the counter with everyone (which she well might! -- In which case, the design should work without the table if no one will use it and with it if she does want to use it).

azlee6574: yes, Home Designer is expensive. But it is a small drop in the bucket in the remodel costs. Basic version starts at $80 and ones with more bells and whistles go up to $500. I started with the $80 and currently use Home Designer Architect for $200 (you can upgrade for almost incremental cost). I love it. But I am very adept at computer programs and have used many other 2D visual programs (Painter and Photoshop) so the learning curve for me was very short. They also have fantastic videos online and an awesome support forum. Well worth it if you are good with computer graphic programs or are willing to put in the time to learn how to use it. I tried the free ones online and got frustrated by their limitations quickly.

As a plus, many kitchen designers use the commercial version of this software (which costs even more than $500!) and you can open their files to view them in Home Designer or give your layouts to them.

Residents: Mr. Chef, Elderly Mom, Me.

Cooks: 80% of time one cook, 19% of time 2 cooks, 1% of time 5+ cooks. However, we also do BIG production cooking that takes up a lot of space. E.g. grinding and stuffing sausage, making huge pots of clarified spiced butter, roasting green coffee beans (yes, inside! We do like light roast, so it's OK :-), distributing parts of a butchered pig to friends (not butchered by us (yet!), although Mr. Chef has taken butchering classes and he and I have gone to a farm to learn to kill and prep chickens), making and freezing buckets of sauce from our tomato bumper crops, etc. We do a lot of cook-big-and-freeze (and have two freezers and a fridge in the garage as well). Sometimes we videotape our cooking. Elderly mom does not cook, but removes items from toaster oven and microwave after we've started it).

Diners: Most times we all eat what Mr. Chef has cooked at separate times/places (our schedules are very wacky as people with mostly freelance/teaching type jobs). About quarter of the meals are with the 3 of us together (not including breakfast, that everyone eats on their own unless we go out). About one to three times a week we have a single guest over and there are 3 to 4 people eating (depends whether mom is awake). About once a month we have 5-15 people and pull out the tables.

I have a friend, and Mr. Chef has a friend who do not like to be touched by our big dog. They visit in the kitchen or the office and we keep the dog out with voice commands. Dog also sheds a lot (Akita) and we try to keep him out of the kitchen generally. So somewhat restricted entrance and in-kitchen seating is preferred. Mom wants to visit with them, too.

Our 26+ cu ft fridge is completely packed. We, and especially Mom, cannot get the food at the back. We need both more space and less depth. Hence: a 48" built-in fridge.

Mr. Chef currently uses a 36" Thermador cooktop over a 30" oven. He almost never uses the oven, but has filled all 5 burners of the cooktop at once. He hates with a burning passion the knob-on-top design. Solution: either a 36" range or rangetop. Currently, I can't find a solution that involves a 30" wall oven that doesn't steal precious drawer space or window space. So, it'll probably be a 36" gas range with 6 burners. The 36" hood has been sufficient for us, including when venting coffee roasting fumes, so we may not have to step up to 42 as long as it as a wall stove.

The toaster oven and microwave are used daily.

Would you consider an L + island (or something) that closed off into a U by a table that fit into the space and could be moved out for more seating as needed?

Palimpsest,by "L" island, do you mean one like the island in this prior layout or some other orientation?

azlee6574: forgot to mention: I would love the space-saving of an OTR microwave, but, alas, it wouldn't work for us. We do use the stove full-bore sometimes, and so need a good vent hood. Also, sometimes the elderly family member takes things out of the microwave that we've started for her -- so she needs to be able to reach it (counter height or lower). The microwave drawer seems the best solution (even though it's expensive for what you get).

marcolo, your banquette idea is intriguing. Such a design would also provide handy seating for when we do music recitals with performers in the music room and audience in the living room. I do think we need to see if better island design can help us.

One type of gathering we do during our big cooking get-togethers is tastings. So, I had envisioned that if I have a freestanding table up against/near the island, that I would be able to move it away and we'd have a counter available for setting out samples. While that could be our seating area like I have in the above layouts, it could also be a raised bar height area with a shorter overhang than the counterheight extension. This would make the table mandatory for Mom, but also help to provide visual interest/kitchen-living room barrier while keeping an open feel. I need to think more -- it would be a bummer to design with a mandatory table in mind to provide enough chairs and then have Mom preferentially prefer the 34" counterheight seating and not want to use the table (thus causing us not to have a lot of seating). I'm a little worried about that scenario. This already sort-of happens in our current kitchen (Mom choosing less safe seating because she wants to be close to people rather than comfortable).