Wow, looks like it's going to be a beautiful space. I'm terrible at layout, but everything looks pretty good to me. My guess is the micro is in a good spot if it's used for quick breakfast heat-up. Mine is close to the eating area like yours and I like that for rushed mornings.

I'm guessing the pantry area wrapped around the fridge is too small to hold all your pantry items? Will the rest of the pantry storage be close by? I couldn't handle having those things split across two areas of the kitchen b/c I'd never remember what was in which one. But that's just me.

I know this is about the kitchen, but in the living room....is the TV going to be recessed in the wall like that? Or will there be cabinetry to house components and bump the TV out a bit? With it sunken into that recess, I'd be worried that it wouldn't be very visible throughout the room.

Two things are bugging me.

#1. The microwave drawer. I'd rather have it next to the fridge. But truthfully, I'd ditch the drawer and put it in the upper cabinet. But then, I'm 6'-2" so ymmv.

#2. The fake door panel on the outside corners of the upper cabs next to the hood. The doors are glass. Why not make the side panel glass too?
Also, consider popping out the 2 cabs to either side of the hood the same depth as the over hood cab, while leaving the glass side panel recessed.

My micro drawer is in roughly the same spot (I don't have a drawer stack in between the rangetop and the micro and my fridge is at the other end). this is one of those two points that I differ with most of the professional advice on (the other being that I believe faucet reach is more important than sink depth for proper ergonomics). I know the general advice is to put the micro near the fridge, but I think that is only one factor.

When you put something in the micro, it is generally cold or room temp. When you take it out, it is warm to hot. you are either working with it in the cooking/baking area or taking it to the table. I think yours is in a good place for both. And after 2 years with a micro drawer, I may never have anything else. I'm almost as tall as the PP and my son is a little taller -- no problems there.

You have 2 pantry areas adn lots of nice drawers. Plan what you put where and they should work well. You are wise to check where the important and tricky items are stores. I love my All-Clad, but didn't get their griddle because of the raised handles -- both for storage and seem like they could get in the way when cooking. We kept the flat griddle we had before and decided to slid it in the bottom of a pantry cabinet with rollouts. It fits underneath the bottom rollout. You've got more drawers -- I'll bet you have room for it in one of them.

Looks like an interesting space. The one thing I'm not liking (in the kitchen -- agree about the TV, but not really looking at the other rooms) is the trash location. It seems a bit too much out of the way. I'd rather have it nearer your work zones and between the eating area and the entry into the cleanup zone. The location drawn means that no matter whether you are cooking, baking or clearing the table, the trash is not in the best spot. Putting it near the fridge would make it better for clearing the table, a little better for cooking and prep, but worse for the baking area. Putting it on the left of the cooktop would make it better for cooking and baking, but mean you have to cross the aisle between scraping plates and the DW or sink.

I think you have to look at how you work and what kind of things you do the most. Also, do you work with a waste bowl? Do you scrape into the garbage or a disposal?

One other comment -- you may want to think of that space between the sink and the ovens as your baking work space. Place the mixer back in the corner and it won't be taking more valuable counter space. Use the space opposite the ovens for extra rolling, cooling. That might also make the trash placement easier since it isn't around the corner -- and washing egg goo off your hands will be a lot easier.

Are you sure you don't want some prep space without uppers?

Maybe this would bug you, but I keep my griddle pan on the stove...It's easy to move around or move off to the side if I need the burners. I wouldn't have thought I'd like to do that beforehand, but now it's quite handy as a place to set things, and to keep splatters on a wipable surface.

Thank you for the replies. Keep'em coming.

All kudos on this layout need to be addressed to Rhome410. She helped with the initial concept and then some ;).

Rob_P: In regard to the side cabinets and having glass on the side panel as well, I don't think this is possible w/ frameless cabinets. I think it would be possible if they were framed. If I am wrong on this I would like to know because I had that idea as well but didn't think it was possible.

SmilingJudy & Lascatx: In regard to the TV. The plan was to hang it in the recess and maybe a lower entertainment unit. Visibility was also a concern for me as well. I could fur out the wall but that would eliminate the recess and create a big void. The nook has an added benefit of keeping the walkspace clear on this wall. My thought was to put the TV on an articulating arm. I have a home theater side business so not so much of an issue for me to do. A manual arm can extend up to almost 3'. Would love to do an automatic arm but so far the ones I know about only extend 1' and the space is 2' deep. I am still searching though because that would be perfect.

I am open to any opinions regarding the trash placement. This is a hard one because there probably could be one on both sides. I use a garbage disposal but after my recent backup and the mess it caused I try and scrape or peel directly into the trash and put minimal down the drain.

Bmorepanic: I am open to all ideas. Are you referring to any particular uppers?

Below is a crappy cutup of first preference - for looks and for function. I really don't like the floaty uppers and generally prefer pot racks and rail systems. And it's the space I think you'll actually use for prep - it has the best vistas to where others will be.

Second choice is the upper between the ref and sink. I don't like that one as much because you're parked in a place with a large visual obstruction to the side and your back is to everyone. It's going to tend to be constantly wet and have lots of interruptions. However, you can see out the window - and could have a much wider window.

{{gwi:1744088}}

I like this wall without the cabs. I know alot of people don't like the idea of open shelving, but you might want to consider it here if you do eliminate the cabs. You might wrap them around the sides? Also, in Bmore's rendering, I would do the entire hood and duct in stainless. The range area looks awesome!

I am not sure how I would feel about just a big wall. Not sure how the open shelving would work or what I would put there without it being cluttered. A concern is that we are not the neatest by far and my mother was joking and telling me not even to consider glass doors on uppers for that reason. Of course my excuse is that I currently don't have the storage space :). After my other post of where to put the oils/vinegar/ spices, etc I was going to use the upper cabinets flanking the range hood. This eliminates that option. Hmm..

The other thing I see is that in Bmore's mockup the wall is brought all the way to cover where the side cabinets would be. This then cuts off the use of the side counters. You will have a pocket smaller than 24" on either side counter (behind this wall). If you were sitting at the table you would then see a wall cut between the countertop. The sense of openness and sight lines is cut. Unless I am looking at this wrong.

I did have an idea that kept waking me up all last night. However, this pretty much would eliminate the bump-in from the LR. Instead of having uppers on the side counters I could have these built into the nook area facing the side so there is nothing over the counter. This could either be shelving or a cabinet. If I did this on the front hallway entrance side I could turn this into a msg ctr. Again the cost would be the elimination of the bump-in concept. I haven't tried to mock that up but I can try.

Another suggestions was the elimination of the upper on the sink wall between the fridge and the sink. Not sure if I would have enough room in the three drawers below for all of the dishes and glassware so my thinking was any additional storage would be right above in the upper. Removing the upper and putting a bigger window could be a nice option but the sink would then be way off to one side.

One also has to remember that while there looks to be ton's of storage with all the drawers, they can only be in one of those directions on the range wall. So all of the drawer fronts on the pantry closet side and DR table side are all false fronts except for the one set of base cabinets closest to the LR.

This is my own personal opinion, and I'm not going to worry about being blunt, because Malhgold and Bmore know I love them and know we don't all agree on certain things, like no uppers and open shelves ;-)...

I really don't like the stove wall without uppers, as I feel it loses the whole wrap around design and the balance, plus needed storage.

I had open shelves by a range once and would never again want to deal with the greasy dust that collected on the contents. If it would be for just a couple of things, it could be OK, but if for all the things I like to keep handy to the stove...I guess I'm just too messy and way too lazy to want to keep up with cleaning something like that.

I know someone --initials are BMP ;-D -- will point out that it's because I'm one the smaller side, but I don't see the need to eliminate uppers from a prep space. I think instead of getting rid of them, I'd compromise by keeping all uppers but the ones right over the hood at 12" to make things feel more open as you work at the deeper counter.

LOL Rhome!!!!

todds - keep in mind, I am not planning any upper cabinets in my kitchen and am using open shelving. So....if that's not your thing and need the storage, please disregard everything I said.

I still might consider eliminating the cabinet over the hood, depending on the range hood style you purchase.

I think I'm visually bugged by the way the uppers around the range top look like their just suspended in space. I don't know that I'm explaining that correctly. Have you tried a different style wall mount hood (I've seen gorgeous ones on here against the wall (smaller version of the wall like in your post). Then what if (and again, I don't know that this is even possible) bring down the wrap around cabs, which I love the concept of, the the counter on either side. You would maintain the standard depth prep space on either side of the rangetop and have the storage. Does that make sense?

I'm no layout guru, but I think the stove wall looks better with the uppers. I'm not a fan of too much open shelving simply because of the cleaning factor...too much of a PITA. I can see the desire for an area with no uppers for prep though, as this annoys me in my current kitchen, but with some good undercabinet lighting I think it wouldn't be as much of an issue for me.

I am throwing up a quick reply since I am on my cell phone and not at home.

The depth of the base on the rangetop wall is currently 27". The uppes here were at 18" with I believe 12" everywhere else in the kitchen, excet those over the range hood.

As far a rangehood options go remodelfla, I would be happy to see anything. If you have a link or some other pics that would me great. Curious to see what you were referring to. I was originally planing on a wood decorative hood w/liner but I liked the simple look of jbrodie's. I had the cabinets above protruding to kind of give some definition. It was to plain if it was all flat. In jbrodie's kitchen her rangetop was flanked by the frdge and DO so that bumped the cabnets and crown out creating definition.

I will repost some renderings layer with 12" uppers, per Rhome410's suggestion.

Remodelfla: I think you were saying to bring the uppers over the side counters down tothe countertop correct? I can try that. Do you then
Mean to drop as is so that it will stick out 12" ontop the countertop as well on the range side or have the upper on the range side wider to overlap the side counter uupper? Does this make sense? Let me know and I renderthis later to see as well.

Another thing I could do is to shink the bumpin to then increase the counterdepth on the rangetop face making a deeper work area here.

18" uppers would be very deep and pretty heavy looking. That's 6" deeper than normal over counters that are 3" deeper than standard, so I don't think you'd want to do that...If you want deeper uppers, I'd go to 15" at the most.

I remembered something from a recent posting via malhgold:

Ok I did some re-rendering.

remodelfla, that hood is great looking and I saw another post recently with someone looking to do that same hood in black. I have no idea of the cost on these things either. You mentioned to drop the uppers down to the counter on the sidewall only and not to extend them onto the range side wall. You mention the depth should be whatever I show them at now. However, the side cabinets on the pics above do come out past the wall and meet the face of the uppers on the range side. This is why they kind of look like they are floating. When facing the rangetop, the outermost cabinets are just door fronts that are on the sides of the side cabinets. I recreated it and kept the sides flush with the side wall so they are indented back from the face of the uppers when facing the rangetop. Not sure if this is what you meant but I can reconfigure if not.

THIS IS A PIC OF THE SAME LAYOUT BUT WITH 12" UPPERS

Ok I did some re-rendering.

remodelfla, that hood is great looking and I saw another post recently with someone looking to do that same hood in black. I have no idea of the cost on these things either. You mentioned to drop the uppers down to the counter on the sidewall only and not to extend them onto the range side wall. You mention the depth should be whatever I show them at now. However, the side cabinets on the pics above do come out past the wall and meet the face of the uppers on the range side. This is why they kind of look like they are floating. When facing the rangetop, the outermost cabinets are just door fronts that are on the sides of the side cabinets. I recreated it and kept the sides flush with the side wall so they are indented back from the face of the uppers when facing the rangetop. Not sure if this is what you meant but I can reconfigure if not.

Another thing I can try is to shrink the bump down to 1' deep from the current 2'. This would solve any issues with the TV. However this would cause the side cabinets to shrink in width by 1' as well. Even if I went back to a 30" base cabinets on the range wall, the walkspace would increase to 6' from the current 5'3".

THIS IS A PIC OF THE SAME LAYOUT BUT WITH 12" UPPERS

THIS PIC IS BASED ON WHAT REMODELFLA SUGGESTED (W/12" UPPERS ON THE RANGE SIDE AS WELL)

THIS PIC IS BASED ON WHAT REMODELFLA SUGGESTED (W/12" UPPERS ON THE RANGE SIDE AS WELL)

THIS PIC IS BASED ON WHAT REMODELFLA SUGGESTED (W/12" UPPERS ON THE RANGE SIDE AS WELL)

Well, I am a messy person too and even though I swoon a bit when I see kitchens with glass uppers or open shelves I never fantasize about changing ours for more than three seconds because I remember the chaos inside our cabinets .... I'm being slightly unfair to myself but the thing is, we use our uppers to store stuff, and not all that stuff is pretty! So, I'm with you on the closed uppers. I'm 5'5" and my partner is 5'8" (although he lies and says he's 5'10" -- shh) and our ceiling is 9' (and our cabs go all the way to the ceiling); it's a different kind of closed-in look, I guess. But I like it and I really like the functionality.

Anyway, I prefer your v. first rendition (of your range wall), albeit it with the 12 or 15" deep cabs. I like having cabinets (!) there; I like the way they float around the corner; I like the way that floating doesn't make (on my computer screen) it feel hemmed in. While the images based on remodelfla's suggestions are pretty, they're making me feel confined, esp. when facing the cooktop wall. I guess it's the visual breathing room I like. In the pictures from your eating area, I also think the additional countertop depth you have in your initial pictures will be really beneficial, esp. since the drawers facing the eating area are false fronts, right? I'm thinking of my family and how we operate, but I could see that as a major spot for having napkins or the newspaper or salt & pepper shakers ....

If it were my kitchen I would appropriate the corner to the left of the ovens as my baking corner, but I'm a baking corner kind of gal, I guess.

Your floorplan looks amazingly efficient. I love that it looks as if you'll have a minimum (if any) of wasted motion. That is fabulous! I hate getting exercise while I cook.

It looks better, EXCEPT it also renders the counterspace useless - because you can't put anything in front of the cabinet doors. That's why they're usually seen with a little drawer at the bottom - to raise the doors up a little bit. You could maybe look at corbels as another way to try and ground those cabinets.

I don't think it has to do with some people shortness, it has to do with pounding chicken, making bread and rolling stuff out - things where you use your whole body or a good sized rolling pin - or swing a crab mallet or meat tenderizer. It's hard to do that in front of uppers.

I would just go ahead and embed two tall (floor to ceiling) cabs in the sides and forget about the tiny bit of counter.

Being limited in my kitchen knowledge, I don't really know what I like as far as features go, but I do know what I don't like and I don't like uppers that rest on the counters. I think it looks fabulous, but in practical use is very annoying since people always put things in front of them, then you can't get into them without moving things etc. I have a fairly small kitchen so space is an issue and that one bugs me a lot. I'd rather have them flush with the lowers so there was no landing space, or raised up in typical upper fashion. My 2cents :)

It's deja vu all over again! ;-) I think we have gone around a circle and are repeating the last thread, regarding counter usefulness (vs not) on those sides.

I didn't follow well what's gone on with the bumpout changing depth, but I like the uppers at 12" in the wrap-around configuration, and all off the counter.

I think this is going to be a gorgeous kitchen! I love so many features of it and I think it would be a pleasure to work in. I only have a couple of questions for you.

First, I think bmore has a good point about the counter space next to the stove and having enough headroom for prep there. It might not be that big of a problem, since you have deeper base cabinets and those corners sticking out on each side. Have you considered making the cabinets shallower than normal instead of deeper. If you're like me, your spices and oils get hard to find in the back of an upper cabinet, so having a shallower space might be an asset. Also, I think deeper cabinets belong where I am going to keep dishes to accommodate over-sized plates and such. So, if you want some deeper uppers, I'd put them on the sink side.

You may have already answered this elsewhere, but are the drawers in the corner by the sink real? In the floorplan, it looks like you're planning a susan in that corner, but in the rendering it looks like drawers. I had drawers that opened that way in my last kitchen, and I hated them. When I was looking for something, I could never have two drawers open at once because they'd bump into each other.

Donka & rmkitchen I agree.

I think dropping the uppers down eliminates any use of these side countertops. These countertop do have function. This eliminates any use. It is also heavier on the eye when sitting at the table because you feel more enclosed with the cabinet there. It would be even worse if the cabinet was 24" deep. The raise cabinets have more of a feeling of openness, along with the deeper counters that you would not normally have in a galley arrangement. Also you can se more of the wall paint color on either side keeping them as uppers. The other thing that one has to consider is the placement of light switches, outlets etc. Pushing out the upper cabinet eliminates any space for switches, since the most logical location is over the side counter on the wall between the kitchen/LR. These are the details I have tried to keep in mind when revising this layout.

I am used to unfunctional and wide walk space. If I never came upon this forum, there would have been cabinets around the perimeter with over 7' of walkspace. This would make the kitchen feel really wide open but obviously a lot of walking and not functional. Thus this still leaves a feeling of openness is a smaller space. Actually my wife is still very leary about feeling confined in this new space and thinks its going to be small. I am trying to get her to see the light that bigger isn't better. Hearing the various viewpoints helps me make a better informed decision and know the pro's and con's.

I need the storage space as well since there really is no additional closet space in this house. I currently have stuff in the garage, laundry room, office/downstairs den and the basement. Would be great to free up those areas for other things. I hope to add a mudroom within the garage in phase 2 of this project but unless I can get the stuff out of the garage and back into the kitchen that is not happening :).

So not eliminating the uppers for the sake of function is a tradeoff I am willing to deal with. I think the other choices I have made in regard to function more than offset this trade-off. Also, with the deeper base cabinets on the rangetop wall at 27"( but I could fudge a little and make them 30") and the wall cabinets at 12" deep, you now only really have cabinets that are interfering 6" into the workspace as opposed to no wall cabinets with standard 24" deep counters. Is 6" really going to make that much of an impact? How wildly is one swinging mallet? I have never hit my uppers now and they are 12" and 17" off the countertop (The ones in this plan are currently at 19" off the countertop. Not sure if that is right or not) not to mention my current counter is only 24 1/2" deep. FYI the side base cabinets in the renderings above are 24" deep.

I could make the rangetop counter deeper but then where is the line between practical depth and not as well as the ability to still reach even the bottom shelf of an upper? If deeper could be done and be practical I'm willing to listen.

I agree with other that baking can be done on the inside corner or even prep. The reason I stated using the side counter across from the ovens had to do with solving another kitchen dilemma. This is the issue of where do you put items that can be used in more than one area. For example, measuring cups, prep bowls, measuring spoons, etc that can be used between baking, double Ovens & rangetop. My thought was if I put those items in the corner most set of drawers, they are easily accessible from both stations and no need to walk across the floor.

Holligator: Going shallower I would think would be great for the spices and the oils/etc but then render the other shelving higher up difficult/impossible to use since it would be so narrow. My thought was I was going to steal Mamadadapaige's idea, where she has a spice rack on the door of the upper and then narrower shelves, where the spice rack is, to put the oils. This gives the best of both worlds I think. Single file spices on the door, Shallow lower shelves for oils, etc and then normal 12" shelves higher up for storage.

IN regard to the other question about the inside corner, I did mention that above. My current plan is to use the Blum "Space Corner". Basically the drawer fronts on the left and right side and connected and you pull out one large drawer. My cabinet guy said no problem. If I don't use him or it is an issue the second choice would be a some type of susan.

I will be getting new dishes and stuff and thus have no idea how big they will be but the idea was to use the base cabinets next to the fridge for the plates, owls, etc. I have to look at the platters I have and then see how wide they are and if I need to make any uppers bigger. A drawer would work but then I would think you would want narrower drawers, since the deeper drawers would probably be a waste of depth. Maybe I need to start a thread "Show me your platter storage" ;).

I could put deeper uppers on the sink wall I guess. I also re examined this wall and see that technically the window is not centered over the sink. If I did do that though the window would need to shift slightly to the right. To keep white space the upper to the right of the sink would ned to become 12" wide from its current 15". I never really studied this wall enough and not sure if I should shrink down the wider cabinets on the left side (This upper is 36" wide). I could make it one single at 12" and a double door at 14" and then all upper doors on this wall would then be 12 or keep as is. Thoughts?

Rmkitchen: The drawer fronts on the base cabinets on the side counters (i.e. the MW Drawer cabinet) and the one closest to the DO are false fronts. The base cabinet next to the wall between the LR/Kitchen is a regular 24" deep cabinet. I haven't done a whole lot of baking but looking forward to it in the new kitchen. So its hard for me to say where is better. That's why I am hear to listen to the experts ;). I do know I made homemade pasta with the kids the other week and the bigger the counter the better so here would be a perfect place using the side counters to roll out the fresh pasta.

I am in the keep the original uppers camp, except that I agree with rhome that 18" is too deep. Not only will they look heavy, but they will be heavier (and harder to hang and be stable in that end on end configuration), but the biggest problem is that they rob you of usefulness of the counter space below them. Trust me -- I had a micro with that type of thing and I couldn't wait ti rip it out. I would not want open shelving next to the range. I just finished a detailed cleaning of the hood in my kitchen and I know how often I have to clean the main surfaces. I would not want dishes there. Having bottles and such there would be just as much or more of a paint to keep clean and would not be as good for oil storage as a closed cabinet that would protect from light and temp changes.

My uppers are 13" and that is enough to store my larger plates and bowls. A round platter is about the only thin I would have a problem with. I don't have one now, but if I did, I'd put it in with my trays (unless you have a ton of bakeware, that space over your oven may house both baking sheets/cooling racks and come trays or platters).

You could consider making the drawers on either side of the cooktop 4s instead of 3s (or do it on one side and make the fronts look that way on the other). Shallow drawers are great for lots of things in your cooking area -- utensils, tools, spices, pot holders, wraps, and one could hold several platters without them getting stacked to a point that it would be difficult to get them out. If you think you need more length that the depth of a standard drawer, consider the drawers under the cooktop. Shallow drawers would be great for pot lids too. Think about how often you use each of these things and place the things used most often for easiest reach. Kick it around a bit -- I think you are down to some fine tuning.

I think your kitchen looks gorgeous. Just wanted to comment on the 30" counter with 12" uppers. I'm 5'4" and would have a hard time reaching the back of any depth upper from a 30" counter and I think any shelf higher than the second would be impossible. So, unless you're tall, you may be better off sticking to the original plan to do 27" base cabs.

Todds,

I wanted to say that losing the side 24" of counter is no big deal. Even without it, you will have more the twice the usable counters in your current kitchen. There is a place where you choose between fashion and function - and in your case, a small fraction of available storage.

If it was my kitchen, I'd want more storage. I would do tall storage on both sides about 18" deep. I would not want to see the bottoms of that (to me) weird floaty cabinets while sitting at the table. I would have some concerns about them pulling out over time because of the weak outer corner.

I would want someplace convenient to do serious work without avoiding uppers.

If you go forward with upper/lower pairs--

If you increase the depth of countertop, you need to increase the depth of the uppers to have the same relationship between the edge of the counter and the edge of the cabinet to be able to reach approximately the same quantity of stuff AT THE FRONT EDGE. You will get a new issue of being unable to reach items in the back of the cabinet if you are storing stuff like spice bottles without using a step stool. To be able to reach the same amount of stuff with normal depth cabinets, the cabinets would need to be set lower on the wall.

In any event, for the first 24" or so of both of those corners, only only side can have drawers. The other side has a panel of some sort. I know you know this, but its awfully hard to remember looking at elevations that portray both sides as drawers. If the real drawers face the sink, then you really have a set of approximately 24" drawers that face the sides. (or visa versa)

If you do approximately 24" cabs to each side of the rangehood and 24" cabinets facing outwards on the sides - it would have a bit more visual balance than the 12" and 36" wide combo. Again, try corbels or a mantle to visually seat the cabinets.

Ok Bmore I'll take the bait and do this dance a little longer ;).

In regard to the uppers on the range side. There are 15" uppers flanking the hood. Then the 12" cabinets are the sides of the cabinets facing the direction of the side counters. So its 27" on each side of the hood. I don't get the visual balance thing with 24" on each side. Even if what I had was 24" and not 27" and you put a 24" cabinet on the side, you would have the 90 degree inside angle where the two cabinet backs meet on this outside corner, since they are no longer overlapping.

I am a little confused about your suggestions above. This is hard to visualize or know exactly what you mean to try and render it. I know you say to make an 18" deep cabinet floor to ceiling (I think). However, the exisitng side counter is 24" deep. Are you back to saying that the wall behind the rangetop should extend all the way to where the counter ends on each side? If so then you will be staring at counter w/ uppers, a 4 1/2 deep wall and then a tall cabinet about 19 1/2" wide when sitting on the far side of the table facing the kitchen. If I am off track on this is it something you can try and fake with my renderings so that I can get a better picture? especially the table view that would be great.

I understand that the uppers need to get deeper as the counter do. I had the 18" uppers because I did originally have the rangetop counter at 30" depth. In trying various things, I had to shrink this down to 27". However I left the uppers at 18" by mistake. I would think that these should then be 15" at 27" depth, do you agree, leave then at 12" or something else?

On the DR side the set of drawers facing the table is 27" wide, since the MW drawer only needs a 24" cabinet and I figure its kind of wasted to make the MW Drawer base 27". The other side though is 24" facing the pantry and the drawers facing the sink are 27".

Also, what do you mean by seating the cabinets with corbels or a mantle?

The only other area where I really didn't spend that much time was the uppers on the sink wall. There is a 36" wide cabinet next to the fridge. On the other side of the window is a 15" wide upper next to the 12" corner upper. I have discovered the window is slightly off center of the sink by about 3" to the left. If I did center it it would be very close to the right upper and little "white space". To regain the white space I would need to reduce this to 12". Want to make this visually appealing.

I really don't mean to go OT, but can I ask a quick question - I asked it yesterday on another thread and spent the last 1/2 hour looking for the thread and can't find it.

I am looking for kitchen design software and the person I asked yesterday looks like she has the same as you - what did you use? Where did you get it? Thanks much!

No Problem.

Better Homes & Gardens- Home Designer Pro.

http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/

They also have lower versions as well or if you are in the field you can buy the full blow product "Chief Architect".

You can buy it online and download it or they have it in stores like Best Buy.

Thank you so much!

If you choose to have the cabinets to the countertop on the sides, I don't think if will matter that you lose a little counter space. The net loss isn't much in the overall scheme of your kitchen.

Forgive me for thinking the 15" cabinets on the range wall were 12". I'm unable to measure 3d drawings.

I just wouldn't do the wrap around. I would do full height cabinets and stare at the wall a bit closer than you'll stare at the wall :) I would bury 18" wide cabinets behind the wall all the way up and I would probably just do 18" deep so it was easier to find stuff and I didn't have to use pullouts. They are 18" wide because of the wall on one side. If you want, you could build them from drywall and shelves and put a cabinet door or two on the front.

Then, if you want cabinets across the range wall, go ahead and have wall cabinets that are well supported.

If you do the wrap around cabinets like you intend, I think you have 36" wide cabinets(or more) on the sides with 1/3 of their width supported by air. Because they are very wide, I have some concerns about that. Screwing the back into another cabinet side isn't generally the suggested way of hanging a wall cabinet.

I think it would look better if the range wall cabinets were full width (27") and the 36" wide side cabinets became 24" cabinets that were overlapped by the range wall cabs. You still have the weakness in the corner - but it would be a prettier corner.

A mantle shape might run 15-18" deep on the range side from the counter to a height about level with the bottom of the hood. This is a bad drawing of a mantle -
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It's a change over to a hood liner hidden in the mantle. I don't have the kind of program I'd need to draw even bad corbels or show a point of view from seated at the table.

The bottoms of the wall cabinets on the range run will be visible even with a light rail. A light rail hides the fixture from a standing person only. I would really try not to have undercabinet lights facing the table area. If I felt I had to, I'd look at Kichler lighting. It'll look like little sparkly things.

As long as we're talking moldings, drawers like the ones in the inside corners of the bump out shouldn't be immediately against a wall unless you're using framed cabinets. Generally, you'd use a starter molding of at least 3/4". Sad to say, you need a filler of at least 1.5" on the oven wall too. It's required when both ends of the cabinet run terminate at a wall.

I think your wall cabinets need to be about 14-15" deep where the counter is 27" deep. Using myself as an example, I can reach and see the entire lowest shelf of a 25-12 (abbreviation for 25" deep counter and 12" deep cabinet). I can feel, but not see, the entire second shelf. The third shelf, I can reach the front edge only. If the counter is 2" deeper (27-12), I might not be able to reach the third shelf at all and probably count not reach not all of the second shelf.

Because the wall cabinet is deeper, the issue doesn't go away, it just changes. I would still not reach all of the second shelf, but I can still reach the same quantity of stuff as I could in the 25-12" deep cabinet.

Some manufacturers don't finish the bottoms of the wall cabinets. Ask about this in advance. You might plan on covering the bottoms of all of those wall cabinets that form the corner if they come unfinished. The same isn't true on the other side because of the ref. You can see the view in advance by using a dining room chair in your existing kitchen.

I just reviewed this very quickly and don't know if this has been mentioned yet but you have that TV recessed so deep that you are going to have to be sitting right in front of it to see it, there will be no side angle viewing on that TV. I could see recessing it maybe 4 inches to make it look important but IMO that is way too deep, I think you would be better off with that space in the kitchen, plus the TV is centered on that wall but not centered in the room to which it will be viewed from. I think you should rework that area. You will appreciate the extra square footage in the kitchen.