Working final details for my galley layout

10 years ago

Hi everyone, I've been on this forum forever (originally under a different user name.) After way too much deliberation on my part, we were finally set to renovate our small galley kitchen last fall. Then, our contractor's firm fell apart, and after a few tense weeks, we got our deposit back and decided to wait till spring. We've been meeting with a contractor that has done a lot of work for close friends, and whom they have found incredibly reliable and reasonably priced. So now the main question left is to finalize the details of our layout.

We have an odd galley, bounded by load-bearing walls on both short ends and on a slab. It functions as a corridor between the front of our house and the much-used living and dining rooms that were originally an addition at the back. We cannot widen or move the kitchen, or just sell the house as one GWer kept advising. We have 2 young but crazy tall boys so space is key.

After a lot of wonderful GW input, we decided to bite the bullet and pay to open up one wall, trench the slab to move the sink and gas range. Most appliances are bought (GE Caf� gas range & hood; KA CD 36" fridge). We also have a corner banquette from Ballard that arrived a month or so ago, pictured on the layout below as cabinets.

This was our plan, which reflects a lot of prior GW commentary. There will be a pocket door just to the right of the refrigerator that allows access to the laundry and utilities. We're not using Ikea, but it's the only software I've mastered after all these years.

SO here are my questions:
1) I know it's okay that the sink isn't centered on the window, but I'd like confirmation from GW anyway. The current KD and the one who worked with the previous contractor both got very agitated when I insisted on shifting the sink further from the range. In fact the layout I've pictured reflects I switch I'm proposing to the KD - he originally put the 21" trash cabinet between the range and sink; I've switched it with a 30" base drawer that he had at the end of the run next to the dw. You will be able to see the sink from the front door (sorry, small close-in metro house!) but you'll never actually look at the entire wall straight on, so I don't think it's a big deal that the sink is not centered.

2) Again, just looking for confirmation: the plan has the fridge recessed on the interior wall next to about 66" of shallow cabinets, almost hutch style. I KNOW this is a huge loss of countertop, but I've convinced myself an extra foot of aisle space is worth it since this gets TONS of traffic. But am I kidding myself? Just by way of comparison, if we left the sink and fridge where they are currently are, we could save some money and headaches, and we'd have something like this (with about 38" between the sink and the opposite counter, as we do now):

3) Whatever we do, we need to figure out what to do with the short interior wall that will be left separating the banquette space from the galley portion of the kitchen. We could theoretically run the cabinets around the corner, but there is a coat closet there that needs space for the door to open, so we'd only be able to use about 30-40." Right now the contractor has proposed just leaving a short "knee" wall adjacent to the bank of 12" deep hutch cabinets. I know there is an awesome galley on here (BrooklynGalley) that did something like this, but I'm very uncertain about how it will look. Any advice?

Fwiw, this is the banquette already in place with a glimpse to the kitchen entry that will be opened up. The angle is basically what you see when you walk in the house.

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Comments (4)

ineffablespace
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I think the second plan leaving the sink on the inside wall with a short stub of counter over the DW would be really unpleasant to work in.

With regards to the first plan:

You could lose the sense of the kitchen straddling the structural header somewhat if you used a soffit the same height as the header over the upper cabinets.

I know soffits are extremely unpopular in this forum, but right now I get a visual message that the kitchen didn't fit inside the space allotted for it, so there is a cabinet hanging out in the other room.

I would also make the wall on the other side go up to the header for the same reason. Some sort of structural and visual "continuity". I know the idea is to open things up, but the openness is intersected by an obvious beam while everything Else has been treated as an "open" plan around it. Trying to ignore it completely isn't working...for me anyway.

I completely understand extending the run in that direction for better function, and having to live with the beam, but I think it could be resolved better.
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Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks so much @ineffablespace - you highlighted one of the glaring problems with the layout I'm considering. I've spent the past two evenings poring over photos of header cladding in small kitchens from GW and Houzz. Ironically enough one of the few similar kitchens I found is one that is in my neighborhood - it was in a magazine and then I recognized it when it was up for sale a few years ago. It's not bad, but right now we're planning relatively small simple crown molding on top of the uppers, so I don't think I can replicate it.

[
[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/case-design-remodeling-inc-eclectic-kitchen-dc-metro-phvw-vp~87892)

[Eclectic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2104) by Bethesda Kitchen & Bath Designers Case Design/Remodeling, Inc.

I know whatever I do here will be imperfect. I can live with that. Mine will not be mistaken for a magazine kitchen under any circumstances. That's okay. But I want to make the most of this in terms of getting the structure right.

In looking at photos, I wondered if it might be best to run the shallow interior wall cabinets around the corner, like this (I've drawn it as 36" wide but might not quite have that much if I want to ensure that the coat closet perpendicular to this wall can open properly.)

I think that looks better - it doesn't hide the header, but it allows both sides to flow into the banquette area rather than just one. But I've stared way too long at all these layouts - what does GW think?
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Congrats! Doesn't it feel good and comfortable when thoughts and imagined images finally fall into place? That range corner looks primed for some real drama. We await the ideas for it. It's not too late to insert either side of the range in your plan... a carved wooden oversized salad spoon and fork set, ...or a macrame plant hanger, ...or a gingham check teddy bear and white goose wallpaper border. But then, I suppose you will be impertinent enough to come up with your own idea.
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Thank you all for your very insightful comments. Davidro �� We are reframing the entire area, so the pantry framing is completely up to us. Our approved plans do show a pantry but my GC says that as long as I figure it out by next week when we do the framing, we have some flexibility. The vent pipes and the electrical is the same.. all will depend on what we end up doing. Only limitation on electrical is that there will be no cans. Our ceiling is low and has wood planks and beams that we plan to keep. We are adding 2 new skylights (see the X near the clean-up sink and the cooktops). I am thinking something similar to this GW classic Spanish kitchen with school house flush mounts, pendants over sink s and a modest pendant over the banquette area The question of Pantry --> I added the pantry to the plan to see if we can reduce the cost of cabinetry and add some long-term grocery/ appliance storage. The original idea was to basically make this back to back cabinets. The galley kitchen would then end in a "L" here with the short leg facing the kitchen and another set of cabinets facing the corridor (for other household storage). The side facing the kitchen could have the fridge and the ovens (an appliance wall?). We gave up on that as the pantry seemed more optimal but the discussion now about choppy counters makes me rethink that. I love Dean1's neo-angle pantry as well (in fact pinged him a couple of times to ask to see the inside). The only thing on the oven is that I do want it to be ergonomically a good height for me. I am 5' tall and wanted the 27" gagg convection mounted lower and the 24" gagg combi mounted above so that I can peek into the combi at the eye-level. So it would be a deepish drawer with the ovens above and some storage above. Pllog --> I completely agree on the prep sink position. I am not happy. I thought about moving it after the cooktop area across the fridge. That may work as the filtered water will be at the prep sink but was concerned about people dropping clean-up things in the prep sink. That would be a big ��ick�� factor for me. The nice thing about this sink is that it has a built in cutting board that sits flush with the counter.. so the extending the countertop idea works. I actually did this based on feedback from you and Davidro in the appliance forum thread a while ago. Bmorepanic �� Thank you so much for the reality check on the pantry. I need to mock up the pantry layout physically per your email and see how it works.. I realized I am more visual/ kinesthetic than verbal as part of my remodeling education �� Here are the full house layout (sorry for the small size fonts.. Only way I could make it fit ). As you can see, the house kind of wraps around the patio/courtyard behind the kitchen with doors from the kitchen, family room and the master. Picture of the current kitchen with the ceiling plants and beam standing from where the pantry is shown in the plan.(pardon the crappy cellphone photo. There adobe brick wall you see at the end near the french door will be modified to add a window with a seat for the banquette. All that brick you see currently jutting into the aisle is gone. The courtyard showing the French doors and the dutch door from the kitchen and the French doors from the family room.
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Wow HollySprings - tell me how you really feel. This design is a colloboration between me and the KD, not just the KD trying to make a showy kitchen. This is also after I have thought about, researched, read a lot on GW (on zone areas specifically), posted some intial layouts and gotten feedback and made some changes. Yes, I need to continue to tweak it and incorporate the feedback I am getting - like making the left side of the sink 18" and moving the MW (which I need to change anyway b/c of how much it sticks out it makes the counter top space underneath it almost unusable and that is suppose to be my baking area). I don't understand why you don't think someone can prep and someone else clean at the island at the same time? I did have a trash pullout in the island originally but moved it out so I would have more storage where I use it daily/need it. Instead, I incorporated 2 trash pullouts instead of just one (left of the cooktop, opposite the island and far left of the oven - but still close to the sink). I don't bake that much and I almost never do "sear and finish in the oven" dishes so yes the oven is far away but that was a compromise I was willing to make. I don't know where a "better" place for it would be. The door to the garage is actually going to be on the "other' side of the couch so right next to the mudroom-like lockers. Basically where it is in the as-built image below. We already have hook for coats there and use it regularly. What everyone is referring to as the Butler's pantry isn't that exactly. It is more of a bar area and will be used to store liquor, wine, tumblers and wine glasses - no dishes or silver. We need to have a place for this stuff and this is what worked so it was away from the action in the kitchen but you could still stand there and make a drink for someone who is sitting at the island or in the keeping room and converse with them while doing it. And, someday when the dining room is a DR again, it will work well to have the bar there. I realize it sounds like I am trying to defend myself and the design. That's not my intention as I am open to suggestions but I am trying to give the rational behind why things are currently designed the way they are. Here is the as-built with dimensions: Starting with a "clean slate" what would you do, to open the space and make the kitchen better for casual entertaining and a comfortable place for family and friends to hang out? Would it be helpful is a posted photos of the existing space? MtHouse - very interesting idea. The thing is it would work well to have the playroom at the back of the house, but I wouldn't want it there once it is a dining room again. It would be a waste of the view and windows to the backyard for a room that is rarely used as a DR. The other potential problem is the current playroom is right at the front of the house so I'm not sure I would want to make it into a mudroom. I hadn't thought of making the current breakfast room into the kitchen but I'll give it some thought. I wonder if it would be big enough...
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With how little you use a microwave, I think you should do as Mama G suggested and put it in those cabinets next to the fridge. I don't know if it's still being made but there used to be a style called Spacemaker that would fit in a 12" deep upper cabinet. It sounds like something like that would work well for you with your limited use. Another plus for putting your microwave next to the fridge is that this frees up that lower micro-drawer space for your every day dishes. Mama G is right about the hutch above the peninsula creating a two-step process for putting your dishes away. Drawers in the peninsula sized so they can be open when the DW door is open eliminates that problem and would make putting dishes away super-quick and easy. You really don't want the dish storage in drawers on the other side of the sink as that puts them in the prep area making it difficult to do clean-up while DH is doing his prep in that area. Also, the drawers in the prep area should be used for things DH will need while prepping like colanders, bowls, knives, and other gadgets he uses regularly. Don't plan a traffic jam into your kitchen. If you want to put your mixer in the appliance garage on the peninsula, and I think that's a good location since you want that for your baking area, I think you should consider putting the toaster and coffee on the shelves to the right of the fridge. You really don't want them to the right of the sink in the prep area either. Imagine DH making breakfast for the family and the grandkids want toast, everybody else wants coffee, and DH has to interrupt his prep or move everything he's working on elsewhere to allow folks access to toaster and coffee. This is another traffic jam you're planning. The bookcase idea looks great to the right of the fridge. If you can't bear the idea of putting the microwave, coffee and toaster there, you could put it all to the left of the fridge. To be clear, I think it's more functional to the right of the fridge so someone can grab a cuppa coffee, make toast, and use the micro without having to come into the kitchen while DH is cooking. Or while you are cleaning up. It's just really nice to keep these things out of the kitchen proper while people are working in the kitchen. In your space, the second place for function, imho, is to the left of the fridge. It's not a close second. But it's a heckuva lot better than putting it all to the right of the sink. Regarding your two bookshelf designs, I do visually prefer the one with the shallow lower. However, I think the full-depth lower with the coffee and toaster on the counter with a micro-drawer makes the most sense for how you live, especially when family is visiting. Do you know what the width of the aisle is between bookcase and peninsula with the full-depth lower? You don't want to create a bottle-neck there where someone can't leave the kitchen while someone else is coming in. 42-44" is a decent width to provide egress/ingress at the same time although some folks prefer wider. But then you don't want the peninsula so short it's not usable. It IS a bit like putting a puzzle together, isn't it?
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dcward89
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
smalloldhouse...my comment is regarding your sink not being centered on the window. I am doing the same thing in our currently 1/2 way done kitchen reno. If I center the sink on the window it leaves only about 12 inches of space between the sink and the fridge. We currently have a 15 inch bank of drawers there and it is not enough room and since we are widening the space where the fridge goes (absolutely a must so we can buy a regular fridge instead of special ordering a skinny one) it would be even less. I opted to put in a 20" bank of drawers there and move the sink off center of the window. The center of the sink will actually now be centered on the left side of the 51 inch slider so I'll still be looking out the window when standing at the sink. For me, function came first and I knew if 15 inches of counter has aggravated me all these years then 12 inches would never cut it. I know me and I know this will not bother me at all. Some people would not be able to handle it. Just wanted to reassure you that it is done and I have seen many examples of it on-line while doing my research.
cluelessincolorado
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Just to stir the pot...I can't remember how the exterior of your home is clad, but could you change/add a window on the sink wall that would let you center the sink on something if that bothers you and give more real estate between the sink and stove? We have a very small kitchen (9.5'x10.5') and did just that. Sink now centered on left window, right window in space of old casement. I do all my prep on the 42" or so we have now and would very much like to have even 6" more. The extra bit of light is nice too because we have a north facing house and these are east facing windows. Love your house!!!

Sorry about the gigantic photos! Thought I resized...
Just wanted to add that off center doesn't bother me :-)

This post was edited by cluelessincolorado on Wed, Mar 5, 14 at 20:39

Working final details for my galley layout

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ineffablespace

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Working final details for my galley layout

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ineffablespace

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