You have a bad flapper valve. Home Depot has them on the shelf with instructions printed on the package. I think they sell for less that $5.00. This is so common I keep an extra in the garage.

You also have a plugged-up rim. There ought to be a lot more than three holes.

Pinoke

Thanks so much, Don, though clearly you didn't understand the "coded" aspect of my inquiry. Note how I mentioned that the w/c is 30 years old...paid $100 to have it re-rigged 5 years ago...have already picked out a spanking new Toto to replace it with...

The response I was looking for was something more along the lines of, "oh heavens, you have GOT to replace that thing - the sooner the better - and by all means get the Toto that you like!

Failing to elicit that response, I will go snag a new flapper valve & follow the directions. Seriously, though, I really appreciate your help. You just saved me a chunk of change.

OK you have an old Toilet and you replaced with junk replacement parts. You also got ripped off by the plumber. You should do the whole process again, and count on doing it in another five years (if not sooner).

I guess there is another solution: Junk that old thing and go buy a new One. I recommend the Toto brand.

OK fqp25, now you've got me going 'cause I'm not sure if you're serious or not. *ARE* those junk replacement parts that were used? If they really are, then I don't want to go to the trouble of replacing the flapper valve, if I really need to have the whole deal replaced w/higher end parts. So, tell me, are you just trying to get on my good side by telling to replace it, or did my plumber really do a cranky job?

Mona,
I am a very conservative person. I consider a thirty-year-old toilet to be a lifetime investment. Some people just like to change them. Fine. But toilets remain essentially the same from the day they are first installed.

In five years, a bit of movement can change performance. Usually, replacing the flush valve (flapper) is a fix for what ails it. But you have to wonder why it needs to be replaced. When one does that, it takes on the characteristics of the installer. If the plumber five years ago did a suitable job, I wouldnÂt place blame there.

Your complaints are: "Â tank "runs" for 10 seconds every few hours. After it stops running, water continues to come out of 3 of the holes under the rim for an extra 15 seconds,"

That suggests that a slow leakage of water past the flapper is occurring. And it also says that water is damming-up in the flush rim and finds three holes to drain from. (Two different issues.)

You may not need a new flush valve. The old and a new one will only seal if they are clean, round and allowed to seat when they return. A tight linkage will prevent that; too short a chain, e.g. The location of the flapper may have Âmigrated slightly so that it does not fall naturally over the center of the seat. If the flapper material has stiffened in poor water conditions, the flexed length of the Âhinge may cause the centers of the seat and the Âball to differ, causing a slight and growing leakage.

If you have orange streaking, it indicates that you really do have water that needs treatment. Such water often has, not just excessive iron content, but calcium, too. Well-water is typically laden with these metallic compounds. Calcium causes the hardness in Âhard water. And it shows up in cooking as scaling, in water heaters that go, Âpop while heating; and, unfortunately, as Âdams around the holes in the flush rim of your toilets.

You can remove these deposits with the help of a stiff brush, allowing the water to drain-out more effectively. This will disperse the staining (in case you like that better) and it will create a much more powerful flush.

For some people, the cleaning effort compared to the purchasing expense favors buying new. If your time is quite valuable, you should buy. But, like me, if it is not, you can DIY, and still have time to mess-around on the internet.

Pinoke

OK, Pinoke, that's a lot of interesting information & I appreciate it. One thing that I wasn't clear enough on is the water from the 3 holes. Actually, when the w/c is flushed, water comes out of all of the holes very nicely, thank you very much. But when the *sound* of the flushing stops, water continues to come out from these pesky 3 holes for a few seconds. And that is the only place where rust is accumulating. (no rust in other w/c's)

So, based on this new, late-breaking information, would you say that the flapper valve is the likely culprit? (tho I'm still not sure why the post-flush water only comes out of 3 specific holes...)

Let's not forget to mention that swapping out the old 30+ year-old toilet for a modern Toto will save you about 3-1/2 gallons of water with every flush. Old toilets are water hogs.

Depending on where you live, you could even qualify for a rebate from your local water company. -- i.e.; a subsidized toilet!

Moner,
I tell you everything I know; and still you dont know nothing!

Print this off and go read it while sitting on the commode.

The 3 pesky holes are the only good ones. They are the ones that drain. All the others are dammed up (dammit.) The always-present water like all water seeks the lowest level. That is how I know that there are deposits around the holes inside the rim.

And you thought I was looking up in your toilet.

I wouldnt even think it.

Remember: 2 issues. Yes, the flapper needs repair or replacement. The rim needs to cleaned. Use a mirror to see the underside holes. With vinegar in the bowl water, scrub these holes with a nipple-brush. I mean go buy one its not a technique.

Well, gotta run. I need to see the priest, anyways.

Pinoke

While Pinoke is in the confessional, I'll continue with my 2 cents...

Yes I'm trying to get on your good side, however I have to disagree with adding any replacement parts, which claim to be "Universal". I come from the old school of replacing parts with the correct replacement parts manufactured from by the same company. Rebuilding an American Standard Tank, should use American Standard Replacement parts.

I know there are a lot of Home Depot Heroes, out there which will say Fluidmaster is good enough, and maybe a lot of people settle for those products, but I would plan on replacing that ballcock in a few years, especially when it starts to moan & squeak, as it tries to fill your 3.5 Gallon Tank,as much as it can.

"Flappers are Flappers" some "EXPERTS" say, but ask any one who owns a Kohler Wellworth over the age of 5, and has tried to use a Korky Brand Flapper, or a Fluidmaster. Some Big-Box-Store Brand Flappers might work with your toilet, but I still recommend getting the correct American Standard part. It might cost a little more, but it's just the right thing to do. As for your plumber charging $100, that seems a little steep. Did you hire them for a service call? You can probably do better if you know anyone who can do this on the off day, or after hours. When I was a young apprentice, I use to do small jobs like this when I got off work just for a little cash which got spent at the local bar right a way.

Speaking about the local bar, I got to run... I hope this helps

I took a look at an online tutorial re: replacing flapper valve. Looked very straight-forward, but when I tried to remove flapper, I couldn't do it. I'd have to slice the plastic on the sides in order to get it off. Went to hardware store to take my mind off of that issue, only to find that they have about 12 different styles of flappers - all fit standard toilets.

Now fqp25 confirms that I really should replace the low-end Fluidmaster part as well, so suddenly the plot has thickened & my interest is waning. No, I'm afraid I forgot to make friends with the plumbers who have been in & out of my home for the past 10 years. If I swung by the local donut shop at 9:30 tomorrow morning, I could probably catch them during their mid-morning break, but asking one of these gentlemen to swing by "after hours" does not sound like a great idea, I must say.

So now it really comes down to hiring someone to come out & replace these parts, or hiring someone to replace the whole unit, and net-net I think it would be money well-spent to start fresh (if you will) at this point.

Really appreciate all of the input. Thank you very much.

Why do I enjoy this writing stuff so much? Is it because I like twisting peoples words? Or is it the unwinding of their own words?

I like to be a helper. But I just get sidetracked when I read certain things. And I have to say, women have a way of stepping in it, making it so much fun to tease the fair sex.

I mean here we are discussing possibly the most universal problem of modern life, keeping the toilets in good repair. Now, after all this, our dear original poster throws her hands up in frustration and declares: "(I) Really appreciate all of the input."

Well, Pomona, thats what toilets are for. I think we all appreciate that. But we have to make sure it flushes away.

Do us a favor. Dont give up. If we cant help you help yourself, this forum might as well go away. To that end, I promise: no more funny business. I will try to be instructive and invite the whole readership to support this. We have to keep this ladys head above water if you dont mind my saying so.

So here goes. A toilet is possibly the best invention of civilized mankind. One reason for that is that it is so simple and so efficient and so easy to maintain in virtually any household. (Although, I worked on one just yesterday that hasnt been used in five months because the handle assembly was broken. If the ladys 35-year-old son wasnt a pot-head, he could have fixed it for her.)

By the way before I forget I purchased a nice Jacuzzi brand toilet yesterday for another family. I shopped at Lowes and couldnt locate the elongated model I wanted, which I would expect to be in the same bay as the round one. The nice lady showed me where to find it. Then she went and sat in a chair.

But I couldnt confirm that it was the one I wanted because the box was stuck under a rack and the whole thing was printed in Spanish. Im talking Flint, Michigan, United States of America.

Anyhow, I mention this because I am slowly learning Spanish because of all the stuff I buy in the Big Box Stores. And so by reading both sides of the box and comparing words, I see that the Hispanics have had to devise a word that didnt used to exist until modern times (more or less): "Inodoro."

I tried to find the Latin connection having once been an altar boy (albeit a closet sinner) but I could not find one. Finally, I realized that it might mean, odor-less. You know, like when people say, "Where is the bathroom?" when you know darned-well they are planning on taking a dump, not a bath. In the tropics, they say, "Por favor, Im interested in the odorless, if you know what I mean."

Now the English, in the days of Victoria, applied the old name to the new contraption. It became known as a "water closet." The English didnt want to say what they were up to, either, you see. And for that reason, we have that mysterious toilet drain elbow being called a closet bend.

"Toilet" is, of course the French word, pronounced twa-lay. Well, that almost looks like a good name for a double bed. But it, too, is an oblique reference to cleanliness obviously a dishonest term, since the French have no idea what that means.

"Commode" is a great word. It ac-commod-ates ones immediate needs. I like that. It says what is says. I certainly dont want to call it the stink-free. And I think Mexico could do us all a favor by coming up with a better word. After all, "the odorless" suggests that these huge cities have been formed around one gigantic outhouse maybe two.

Mexico City has more than 12 million people not counting those who live in Texas and California most of the time. That is a big task to handle for the lowly toilet. Thats why they are so simple, efficient and repairable.

Well, times up. Hope this helps

Pinoke

Thank you all very much for your never-ending encouragement and instructions. At long last I have actually replaced the pesky flapper all by myself. Yes, it was extremely easy. And, with said flapper replaced, there is no longer any rusty water flowing from the 3 confused holes. None. So clearly the old flapper - which was covered with a rust-coloured sediment of some sort - was to blame for the toilet's running AND the rust. I think, however, we shall never learn why that coloured potion was only flowing from 3 of the holes, since all of the holes are clear & open & flowing properly, and always have been.

Again, thanks so much for your time, interest & humor. It was a real God-send. Now I'm going to check my local paper's Help Wanted section to try and land a job as a Plumber's Assistant.

Hey, Mona, you dont need to read the Want Ads, to find a job as a plumbers assistant. For one thing, there is no such job. And for another, it means toilet plunger. Now, I dont mind if you find work. But, please dont let it be at the expense of your good reputation.

In fact, the industry term is, plumbers friend. However that became obsolete with the onset of what we call PC. Without getting into specifics, it basically means that one cannot be sure what the plumbers friendship really is. And worse yet, which end of the plunger was the plumber most interested-in?

I am so pleased that you finally responded with your success story. I have been wondering what happened. I was afraid that the information overload was too much for you. But, now we see that you have succeeded in replacing the flapper.

Back in the early days, a flapper was a womans domain already. Now that we have made it a household word, you have to wonder: what ever did they mean when they said, ball cock? No wonder it took all these many years for toilet repair to become gender-neutral.

Pinoke