I apologize if things are difficult to read. I was having photobucket issues this morning.

Here is a link that might be useful: my photobucket album with more pics, old layout ideas

my vote: island with sink. are you planning island seating?

I think any plan that puts that corner jog in between the range and a prep sink is going to make you unhappy in the extreme. You have a similar problem prepping on a peninsula separated from the range by your post. I would think about pulling the kitchen back into the kitchen to gain a continuous counter run, even if you did still use some family room space for a seating overhang.

I vote for the island. I have a peninsula right now and find that we are forever having to walk all the way around it to get into the kitchen. When we remodel we will definitely open it up and do a large island instead.

Personally, I would put the range on the same wall as your fridge rather than at the bar. Think about all the splatters from the range that will end up on the surrounding counter where people will be sitting.

No seating at the island, we have that now, and hate it, and it never gets used. Seating will be at the bar on the family room side, so that guests can hang out near by, but not right in the mix. Bookshelves will be in the part of the island facing the front hall.

Marcolo, could you explain further? Would it help if I switched the prep sink and trash? I did it that way because I like the idea of having lots of landing space on each side of the island. The corner is definitely a concern, but I didn't really feel like I had enough room for the extra sink without gaining those additional 2 feet. To be honest, we are not yet sure where the column will have to go, but that was my estimate, plus the place it seemed to fit in with the plan best.

Thanks, keep the ideas/critiques coming!

We did something very similar to our house seven years ago and our layout is very much likes yours is currently, except that we didn't have a family room off to the side of where your kitchen table is. Our kitchen floor plan is very similar to what you have now, except that our refrigerator is to the left of where your range is now. Plus, we DO have a peninsula.

We tore down our screened in porch (so very sad to see that go and wish we still had room for one) to make way for a family room. We removed the french doors (same spot as yours) and enlarged the opening, and added on a family room. Where our window is above the sink (where your bar is going) we have a mudroom that leads out to a small deck. We kept the window opening b/c we have a nice view through the mudroom (french doors to deck) of the water.

At some point, we plan to gut the kitchen, but I look at the layout we have and cannot figure out how to best use the space. We don't have an island - we do have a peninsula. Where the door to your dining room (I think?) is, we have a pantry and another closet. On the one hand, I like the peninsula b/c it serves as a division b/w the cooking area and the eating area, as well as creates a walkway to the back of the house where our family room is. OTOH, like someone else pointed out, you have to walk around it if you are in the family room and want to get to the sink or fridge. As much as I'd like an island, I don't think it would be ideal for my own set up b/c our kitchen just isn't that big and I think it would just be in the way (there are six in our family, so I think it would just be a big roadblock - I like having that open area so that when there is more than one of us in the kitchen, we aren't totally bumping into each other.

Unfortunately, I don't have any ideas for you - I am interested in the feedback you get as it will give me ideas as well. I do want to say that I like your idea of turning the family room into a laundry/mudroom space. Our mudroom isn't very big but it is so nice to have a place for all the kids coats/shoes/backpacks/sports gear/etc. I only wish we had room for our laundry there but unfortunately it's in the basement.

BTW, for me personally, I'd rather have my sink by the family room bar rather than the stove. A couple of reasons, I spend more time at my sink than my stove so it would be nice to keep an eye on kids in the family room, or to converse with guests while cleaning up. Two, if there are people eating at the bar, having the sink right there for dirty dishes will be easier than carrying dishes across the kitchen to the other wall. I could envision your kids having a snack while sitting there and then you being able to easily remove their dirty dishes from the bar to wash in the sink.

I look forward to seeing the design you choose!

fourkids -

Thanks, I think I remember seeing your previous posts and feeling the same way about your space.

I started out with the clean-up sink by the bar. At that time, I think I was leaning more toward the peninsula plan (see first drawing) and, that is where it is now, so easier all around. I think that I moved it because I didn't like dishwasher placement options near the corners. In the island plan, that would mean putting the cooktop on the island. I tried that too, but just had a really hard time imagining myself cooking with my back to everyone. I am much more likely to be at the stove or prep area (I am figuring primary prep left of range) then cleaning while I have company - except for maybe quickly loading what I can into the dishwasher. Also, once I decided to try out a prep sink, it seemed redundant to have them next to each other. Despite the presence of seating at our island, the kids eat snacks at the table. Obviously, that can change.... I guess I just never considered it.

I'm not disregarding your ideas, just trying to let you in on my train of thought. I guess I am hoping some of the gurus show up and come up with things I never thought of. :)

bump? Anyone care to help tweak this plan?

I like the island, since it's easier to reach your new family room area. I wouldn't want to travel around the peninsula all the time.

That corner is going to be a 'blind' corner, so it's really wall space. I think the sink is awkward there...no room on the right side. I'd put a pantry where the fridge is, move the fridge down and have an overcounter microwave, where the sink is now. Then, I'd move the prep sink to the same counter, where you have the range.

This would allow you to have a view, while you cook and prep, which would be much nicer than staring at the wall. The fridge, microwave and pantry, really don't need a view :)

I think the island works very well. It makes a good clean up area, it's close to your range and you have a nice view of the front. The bookcases are a nice touch!

Lavender -

I moved the prep sink to the run with the range. I ignored the pantry idea, because we will have a walk-in in the bottom right corner, you can see it in that first drawing of most of the 1st floor. I also kept my mw drawer because I'm 4'10" and really sold on that one as a personal splurge so that I can stop standing on tip-toe to get things out of the mw, and make an improvement on my current inability to clean the mw in any capacity. ;)

The big positive for me with this new plan is the additional uppers for dishes, glasses, and maybe a place for those everyday food items I don't want to put in the pantry - bread, peanut butter, cereal -- especially since I consider that my breakfast and lunch zone. The toaster oven will go on the counter above the mw and between that, the fridge, and the mw, 2 meals a day are pretty much covered in my house. Also, that 36" drawer base would be awesome!

The negatives are that I'll only have 24" of prep between the prep sink and range . . . I just worry if that will be enough. Also, the range gets pushed down, off center, and across from the clean-up sink. It is hard for me to know if this will bother me or not. I'm a form over function kinda gal, so the sink conflict bothers me a little more than the off-center issue, but I still want this kitchen to look good, so I'm worried that the elephant in the room - the hood - will look even more obvious and out of place if not centered on that run. Does that make sense?

There are definitely really great positives, and I do like the idea of prepping in that spot. To be honest, I had assumed I would prep there anyway, just pivoting to the sink as needed.

Hi Controlfreakecs,

I love the island. I have a peninsula. I wanted an island
it could not work with my footprint, and that was $$$.
Go for the island. I think this is going to look really
pretty. And the MW drawer is brilliant.

If you are worried about the hood being centered is it
possible to move the MW drawer to the island? Especially
since you are not using the island for seating. But know
that I am far from being a lay-out person. Architecture
background but not a kitchen designer. In fact I find
that my directions is always what it looks like not
how it functions.

I am bumping this up so hopefully one of the wizards on GW
can jump in to bless this or add creative ideas.
~boxer

thanks boxer :) I am glad everyone likes the island. So does DH. I think that when I was planning the storage options in the island, that my drawings looked so busy I couldn't see past that and remember that it is going to be a nice large surface on top of all those cabinets! While I sometimes covet the large expanse of space that would eliminate any butt bumping that would be created by the peninsula, I think we've decided the island works best.

Last night, DH asked me to consider bumping into our office area, so I am going to draw that up after I get the kids off school.

Thanks again!
Emily (yes, I'm a control freak, but one that knows when she needs to ask for help)

If you were to do the U, how about making the left counter fridge-deep? Or, even potentially with an island plan too. It'd give you a great work counter over there and allow the fridge to look built in. Also, if you wished to keep the prep sink in the original position, it'd give you a workable slide-over counter space between stove and sink and get your noses away from the wall. :)

Rosie - I was actually thinking about doing a 30" run of cabinets on that side . . . I'll draw that up too. :)

Loving all these great responses! Keep them coming!

Here is a quick layout showing the additional foot added from the office - I am not comfortable taking more than that due to office window placement. This was not a room we were looking to remodel, beyond refinishing the floors.

I am worried about 30" deep cabinets for someone my height. Not the lower cab, but reaching the uppers. But, I do like how I can get better placement of my island, which can also be 6" bigger without taking away aisle space. I also think I really like the way the fridge will work better. (we are planning french door style, but haven't really shopped that yet). This drawing shows the range centered. I didn't draw in the prep sink. I know what everyone is saying about prepping in the corner, but I just don't think I'll have enough room to spread out if it is next to the range. My favorite cutting board is 20x16" and I need room to set things around it like bowls, knives, the actual food items I'm working on, etc. Not trying to be too negative about suggestions, just trying to think about how I work in the kitchen. Now, I am pivoting between the clean - up sink and island, dripping water all along the way... I guess the corner pivot seemed like an improvement to me.... Hmmmm...

Here's the latest drawing:

Here is our current layout. The window looks out over the porch we are enclosing. The 2 feet we are taking from the porch is actually under the cantilevered 2nd floor. The range should be able to be vented right through the porch roof, if anyone was curious about that.

Control- What if you bump the fridge into the office area, but not the cabinets? Maybe put some shelves, on the office side? Would that make it easier to use your upper cabinets?

I can see why you like your microwave drawer (sorry, I didn't even see it on the original plan) so I think you should keep that, as is. What if you switch your prep sink and drawer base, putting the prep sink, next to the microwave drawer?

This would allow you to center the range, not bump into anyone using the island sink, and still be handy for washing produce, right out of the fridge.

Are you raising the bar, on the family room side, since the range is there? It looks like it, but I can't tell for sure, from the picture. It might be a little safer, with spatters and spills to have a bit of a backsplash there.

Also, I may have missed this, but are you having any lower counters, that are easier for you to use? If not, maybe think about lowering the area around the prep sink. It shouldn't make that big a difference, to the microwave drawer and drawer storage...and a sink can be put in at any height :)

I"ll try switching the sink and drawer base. I guess I was trying to keep as many long stretches of counter as I could. I'm not against the idea of the 30" base, and would make the uppers 15", along that run. I honestly have no idea if that would work for me or not. I have lived at this height for a very long time and am so used to the little struggles that come along with it, that I rarely think about making special concessions for it. But, when I saw the mw drawer in an appliance store, I knew I had to have it. If I lowered the cabinets, I think I would do it along that whole fridge/mw/prep sink wall. It is certainly something I have thought about my whole adult life. The thing that has held me back on that is that while I am very used to working at standard counter height, my 6' tall husband would be very uncomfortable with a lower counter, and we are definitely a 2 cook family, DH LOVES to cook. Our 2 kids are only 8 and 9, but almost as tall as mom already. I have no doubt I will be the lone short cook in this house. Plus, I guess I just didn't think we had a large enough space to dedicate a special lower counter just for me. :)

The more I think about centering the sink on that wall, the more it is growing on me . . . hmmm...

Thanks so much Lavender, you're keeping my wheels turning.

I'm happy to help. So many times, if you get an idea from someone, it gives you another idea about something else...and before you know it...you're loving your kitchen plan! :)

If you don't want to lower an entire run of cabinets, what if you build in a pull out work station, maybe 4" to 6" shorter than the other cabinets? It could slide into the island or perimeter cabinets and look like a drawer, but when you pull it out....shorter counter height. And you can even slide a stool under it and use it and sit down, while you work. It might be handy for the kids, too.

I don't have a picture of this, but I've seen them in other kitchens (usually to give extra work space) but the shorter height usually makes it more for a baking area or sitting. In your case, it might make a great prep area!

I put a barrier in front of my counters so that I had to stand 31.5" out from the wall. Granted, I was trying to reach 12" deep uppers, but it was REALLY uncomfortable all around, and I couldn't even get my fingertips to the wall. But . . . . DH had already been talking about turning the toe kicks into a pull-out step for me. I just saw someone post in another thread "it's cheaper to raise yourself than to lower the cabinets". Does anyone have any thoughts about a pull-out toe kick that would be stable enough for me to use as a riser? Is that even possible? I could stand on it to work at the counter, and to help me reach the upper cabinets.

I also think that if we go with taking a foot away from the office for the kitchen, I will have to put the sink in the center of that run, because the inverted corner will come all the way out to the edge of the counter, but in my original plan I had about 6" of counter between the edge and the wall. KWIM? Those 6" would have made it livable for me. But I don't think I could do it without. Only down side is that I will lose a little bit of storage, since a drawer base in the corner will need some filler in order to clear the perpendicular run and pulls, etc.

Control- I found this, which looks interesting. There's a lot more info, too. Just type in 'toe kick step' and there is the raised step and fold up step ladders, too :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Toe kick step

Have you considered moving the kitchen into the porch area?

You could have a bigger area and have more possibilities with appliance placement. If your room is 15 x 18, you could have a bigger U-shape on the left side open to an eating area on the right half.

You would have room for an lower-height island for your prep space. Your DH could always put a chopping board on top of "your" island to make it higher for him.

It would also eliminate the narrow traffic pathway you will have with just 4 feet between table and counter.

Would your table work with banquette seating in the northeast corner? Is there room for your sideboard between the eating area and the family room?

Hmm. (that's the noise of me thinking outside the box.)
I think I would start with the entry. My preference would be a passthrough opposite the front hall, enough to see light through, but feel a little sheltered. It doesn't have to have much wall around it, maybe just something the width of the front hall.

I would also consider different island arrangements. What if the family room bar peninsula was an island with openings at both ends, and there was a second island parallel to it, encompassing the passthrough? Or what about a long vertical island, right through your support post, that goes several feet into the new family room? I'm thinking with multiple cooks, and a short cook, multiple islands might work better than wall mounted cabinetry.

great ideas, but I'm the visual type, need to see it drawn out. Also, just got home a little tipsy from date night with DH. God Bless Grandma's! :)