All in one units are a bad idea better to go separate so each can be serviced as required.

In order to properly size the softener you need to supply more test results....

hardness?
iron = .311 what? PPM?
manganese?
TDS?
bacteria?
nitrates?

What is not a lot of water pressure? The softener will require a 2.5 gpm SFR to regenerate and the carbon backwashing filter about 5 gpm SFR.

I do have 2 existing units there right now doing a half decent job, it's just that I want to upgrade to new, I bought the house 3 years ago, the house is about 50 years old.

Not sure of the hardness, not a problem with existing equipment.

iron = .311 what? PPM? what does ppm stand for?
manganese? .006
TDS? not sure what that is?
bacteria? non detected
nitrates? 159 ug/1

My opinion, worth every penny you will pay for it:

Never, never, never, never, never purchase softener/carbon filter in one unit. Period. Here are the reasons: 1) carbon and softener resin have different specific gravities, which messes up the backwash. 2) carbon is sharp and tears up softener resin, rendering reducing dramatically the life of your softener 3) since carbon is sharp and tears up your softener resin, it causes your softener to have too many fine particles for the backwash to eliminate, causing channeling and poor softening performance, 4) carbon has to be replace prior to softener resin needing replacement, but you can't do that if they are mixed together so you have to replace both = more expensive, 5) carbon is supposed to remove things that are potentially harmful for your softening resin, so it should be upstream.

Now, as to whether the carbon filter/softener combination you are planning will work, I can't say without further information: hardness, alkalinity, pH, sulfates, H2S (hydrogen sulfide, the usual suspect when you have rotten egg smell), nitrates, iron (type of iron, not just total iron - it can be dissolved or not), bacteria. Define "not a lot of pressure" - what are the settings on your well pressure switch? In any case, only catalytic carbon will be very effective - a standard carbon filter will probably leave you unhappy with its poor results.

aliaceinwonderland
Yes, that is the way the present equipment is set up, softner is first and then goes through carbon unit, then supplying the house.

Pump turns on at 25 and turns off at 46

"I do have 2 existing units there right now doing a half decent job"... using that logic then just get one of each twice as big as what you have and they'll do a whole decent job instead of a half decent job.

Successful water treatment begins with the results of a comprehensive water test from a certified lab ESPECIALLY if you live on a well.

The results from a comprehensive water analysis along with your water usage profile will determine the equipment that is necessary and the correct sizing of that equipment so, hardness matters if you want to do this right, once, and be done with it.

Without those test results there can be no intelligent discussion regarding your water treatment so if ANYONE recommends any equipment without those detailed test results RUN as fast as you can because you won't be happy with the result.

so I would need one like this to match up with the water softner..http://www.abundantflowwater.com/html/catalytic_carbon.html,

does it matter what control I get for the Catalytic carbon, does it have to match up with the softner fleck sxt control, or would a fleck 5600 or fleck 5600se work just as well for the catalytic carbon??

justalurker, I did have a local water guy out here that does know the area. He suggested using the 2 units I listed above to take care of the problem but he wanted $1500 each to install them, $3000 total.

When I saw the price of the water softner for only $550 online delivered. I was in shock.

I do think the equipment he suggested will do the job for me, but his prices were crazy I think.

That should be well > carbon filter > softener > house

Justalurker("That should be well > carbon filter > softener > house"

wouldn't that go against what aliceinwonderland stated above "5) carbon is supposed to remove things that are potentially harmful for your softening resin, so it should be upstream."

Maybe I'm not understanding this right plus looking at the way my current set up, the tank nearest the well is the salt one, has the tube that goes into the brine tank. Then the carbon one is after that.

Both units have a backwash tubes coming off the controls that go into a tee and then they backwash to outside. Isn't that the correct way to set up both tanks?

Maybe it's been set up wrong all along???

jimbochap,

Alice typed it exactly right, you are wrong.

For the carbon filter to protect the softener resin it must be UPSTREAM (before) of the softener. There would be no way for the carbon filter to protect the softener resin if it were after DOWNSTREAM (after) the softener

Maybe it has been set up wrong all along and that's why it's doing a half decent job. Move it closer to the keyboard so the internet company that sells at the cheapest price can see it and advise you how to correct your problems or get a water treatment professional in there to evaluate what you've got and recommend what you need. Oops, you did that but he wanted to make a profit so he'd be around down the road to service what he sold you... never mind.

You don't need an upflow control valve. A downflow will work perfectly well and with your iron you should be doing some routine maintenance or you'll foul your resin.

You seem willing to accept whatever a vapor salesman and web site with the cheapest price tells you and don't want to accept help from those with nothing to gain or sell you.

Most likely there has been 3 or 4 owners of this house. Not sure when the softner was put in, It may have been before the carbon unit was installed and that is why it is lined up before the carbon unit and is right next to the pump/well.

Another question, it did pass a water test though when I bought the house, I guess as far as that is concerned it wouldn't effect the water test? Is that correct?

Pre-sale well water tests are concerned with potability and health related aspects such as nitrates and bacteria among others. Hardness and smell among other things are considered aesthetic.

At the risk of pi$$ing you off I have to repeat that whatever you have in the way of water treatment equipment is academic.

Unless you post the results of a comprehensive water test there is no point in wasting time addressing your questions.

With complete test results recommendations can be intelligently made to resolve the water problems and correctly size a softener. Then you can shop around for the lowest price for exactly what you need.

If you're not interested in adequately addressing the water problems and/or correctly sizing the softener then keep what you've got cause it'll work as well as any other wrong equipment you could get.

What does a good water test cost in South Jersey?

The water guy we had out at the house the other day did not recommend a water test because he said our well would maybe last only another 3 or 4 years and when they drill the another one it would be much deeper, maybe 200 ft or more, not really sure how deep I am now, shallow well hookup, only one pipe going down to the top of the well.

Next well might show alot more iron and that is why he said having the test done would be like throwing money out the window. That is also why we ruled out the no salt softner, I believe he said if the iron was really high those no salt units don't work.

Thanks for your help.

Do these kits work for checking water?

http://www.h2okits.com/site/1286521/product/QC%2010%20Water%20Test%20Kit

"The water guy we had out at the house the other day did not recommend a water test because he said our well would maybe last only another 3 or 4 years and when they drill the another one it would be much deeper, maybe 200 ft or more, not really sure how deep I am now, shallow well hookup, only one pipe going down to the top of the well.

Next well might show a lot more iron and that is why he said having the test done would be like throwing money out the window. That is also why we ruled out the no salt softener, I believe he said if the iron was really high those no salt units don't work".

Exactly the reason that people who live on a well should be doing routine, at least annual, water testing to be sure their water is SAFE. The water in the well you have now can and will change from time to time.

The more details you post regarding your local water guy the less competent he seems. A competent water treatment professional should always execute a water test or have one done especially on a well. The old-timers who say "I know the water around here" should be avoided.

If you want to treat the water you have now then you need to test the water you have now and treat it, or do nothing and live with the water you have now then test the water you have in five years and treat that or don't.

These are the compromises one makes when they live on a well. The living on a well curve is steeper because you want to make the water nice and you have to make the water SAFE.

Hit the phone book and call around for certified labs. Tell them you want your well water tested. They will give you prices. You can call your Environmental Health Department and they might point you to certified labs.

Water is basic. Needs to be right. Justalurker is not pulling your chain. Until you know what you're dealing with it's quite impossible to know what the next appropriate step should be.

You and your family are going to be drinking a lot of water in the next few years. Do it now. Will you have to do it again when you drill a deeper well? Yes. However, your problem is NOW as well as then. Don't guess about this. It's important. This is NOT wasted money.

If I had Culligan come out to the house and do a water test, would that be okay? If so what are things that I need ratings for that are most important ?

I don't believe any softener seller will do a comprehensive water test. They will only test for the aesthetic problems... hardness, manganese, TDS, iron, and such.

For the last time... certified lab

You're only interested in the cheap and quick and free so I'm done trying to help you. It is an oblivious waste of my typing. Good luck.

Okay I understand now, I called a NJ State Cetified Company and they are coming either today or next week.

Now I must know the exact things that are important on the report to look for.

They are doing the New Jersey Private Well Water Test. Has like 30 things it checks. I hope that is the right test for what I need.

Please advise?

I already provided a list above.

Had the test done, I'm waiting for the results.

They did the New Jersey Private Well Water Test. Has like 30 things it checks. I hope that is the right test for what I need.

Okay I got the results back today.

Raw water results.

Results Units

PH 7.44 su

Nitrate Total Coliform Bacteria Absence

E. Coli Absence

Iron 0.38 mg/L

Lead Manganese Mercury Gross Alpha 1.5+-0.6 pCi/L

3 people in the house
2 bathrooms

Okay, Justalurker and I both provided lists of things that need to be known prior to properly sizing a water treatment system. You either decided not to read those lists, or you ignored them. Your test results above, while interesting, with the exception of iron and manganese are entirely missing the data necessary. Without the proper data, we cannot help you at all.

Perhaps you are just catching me on a bad day, but I am going to give advice that I typically would not. I am a big proponent of DIY. However, in your case: Go see Culligan, or Kinetico, or any local water treatment company and get them to specify and install a system for you. DO NOT, under any circumstances purchase a system online and install it yourself - your demonstrated lack of ability to listen and follow simple instructions makes you incapable of successfully doing this yourself. Best of luck to you.

Sorry to have bothered you. I went out and paid $395 for a state certified company to do a water test. That is what you and others suggested I do. I did that.

jimbochap,

I know I said I'm done trying to help you but I have to ask... no hardness test from the lab?

The single most fundamental test result that drives softener sizing is hardness.

Rereading this thread HARDNESS was mentioned or asked about 5 times and your only answer was "Not sure of the hardness, not a problem with existing equipment". Hard to plug not sure of the hardness into a math formula to size your softener.

I'm sure this is frustrating for you but it's more frustrating for those trying to help you. Perhaps Alice has the best answer because when you do-it-yourself you have no one else to blame but you're already blaming us.

If Hardness and TDS were anywhere on the report I would have mentioned it, It is not on there anywhere where I can see.

I can send you the whole report if you like, just need an email address to send it to. It was sent to me in an email attachment.

Real copy will come in the mail in a few days.

Thanks for helping me.

If you paid close attention to this thread you must have grasped that a HARDNESS test was NECESSARY.

Does the report list CALCIUM or CaCO3?

I can not comprehend a $395 lab test that does NOT include TDS and hardness... even in Jersey. If hardness and TDS were not on the report then you need to contact the lab and ask why not.

If you don't get a satisfactory answer from the lab then contact...

Office of Quality Assurance
Department of Environmental Protection
P.O. Box 424
Trenton, NJ 08625
(609) 292-3950

Yes, I did understand that Hardness was very important, I even asked the guy that took the water samples at my house about that. He didn't really answer the question yes or no if I was getting the Hardeness checked also with this test.

I just believed at the lab they would check for this in the all water samples they took.

I will get intouch again with the company and follow up on this and let you know what I find out.

I can't understand either why the $395 wouldn't cover(Hardness and TDS) that also. Calcium is also not listed on the report.

I don't get the test results without hardness or TDS either. That's weird.

In any event both are simple enough. Teeing off on alice's advice -- which I agree with -- both of these tests can be done in minutes for free by any softener vendor. They have to do it before they can recommend any of their units to you anyway. Their sales spiel can't even begin until they know these numbers themselves.

Or if your still parked on the DIY idea, TDS meters are available for 15-40 dollars. Hach 5B hardness test kit is about 15. Both of these items will likely be the same as the vendors use. Google 'em if you want. I think household water supply quality is important enough that, for those prices, every homeowner should have both.

True, the two simplest, easiest, and most common tests are lacking and any water treatment pro can do those tests.

I agree that anyone who spends money to treat their water ought to invest the small amount of $$$ in a bottle of hardness test strips and either a hand held or a duplex TDS meter to monitor their water quality but so few do.

I have an email in and a phone call message in to the company that did the water test, Going to ask them to come out and finish the water test for me or ask them to credit my credit card $55 and I will get the test kits myself and finish the water test that they started.

Might take until Monday or Tuesday to get a result on this matter. if I don't like the income of this I will be calling Office of Quality Assurance and find out if these 2 tests should be included in a water test.

I recieved an email back last night and here is what they said. I was able to get the Hardness and TDS results. I hope these addtional result will help you properly size the unit I need for my house.

Thanks in advance. Look forward to your suggestions.

Jim,

The project was setup for the complete PWTA group of tests on the raw water and a test of the treated water (pH, Fe, Mn) was performed for free. This approach and this group of testing were established by some of NJÂs finest scientists at the NJDEP when the PWTA law was being formulated in 2001/2002. Additionally, this test group is the current state-of-the-art requirement for all South Jersey if you are selling a property with a well or have a new well put in. The testing is complex and certain tests are done with expensive laboratory instrumentation. The testing is done in a "certified" laboratory setting with substantial QA/QC checks to ensure accurate data. We have invested about $500,000 in our laboratory building and instrumentation, not top mention our technical staff, to perform this group of tests. Please understand you DID get your moneyÂs worth. Unfortunately, there are many tests that can be performed on water matrices in addition to the PWTA group and each test is a stand alone analytical method  we do not have a "magic box" in which we pour water that produces analytical results. I hope your understand this. We can always add additional testing on top of the PWTA group. We, unfortunately, need to charge extra for these tests.

I did go back to your initial raw water sample and performed two (2) tests (no charge) that I think will help you:

Hardness is 7 grains or 119 mg/L. (Hardness, often times is expressed in mg/L as CaCO3)

TDS is 141 mg/L.

I hope this helps.

Take care,

XXXX XXXXXXX

Laboratory Director

Raw water results.

Results Units

PH 7.44 su

Nitrate Total Coliform Bacteria Absence

E. Coli Absence

Iron 0.38 mg/L

Lead Manganese Mercury Gross Alpha 1.5+-0.6 pCi/L

Hardness is 7 grains or 119 mg/L. (Hardness, often times is expressed in mg/L as CaCO3)

TDS is 141 mg/L

3 people in the house
2 bathrooms

I hope these addtional result will help you properly size the unit I need for my house.