I know there are a lot of different opinions on this just as there are about spanking children.But also there is a BIG difference in spanking,swatting or beating,whether it be a pet or a child.I grew up with pets,dogs and cats,and my mother used a loosely rolled up newspaper,maybe 4 pages,as a form of discipline(and not just for the animals I might add!LOL)Most of the time it never touched the animal,just the palm of her hand or a piece of furniture,but it was effective.Kind of like using the spray bottle.I don't remember any of our pets that suffered any trauma or had any phobias because of it or that any of them were cowed or afraid of her.Just normal loving pets that knew they had done or were doing something that was a no-no when she picked up the newspaper.
In the case of the person at the park,I would say that was abuse.He was hitting the dogs in anger and I doubt they "got" that they were being punished for anything,only that their master was mad and for some reason was taking his anger out on them.There is a whole lot of difference in being swatted with a newspaper and being beaten with a hand.I think if I were to see that happen again I would report it.If he treats the dogs like that in public just think what he might be doing to them behind closed doors.I don't know,maybe he is just trying to make them mean? JMHO........Lillie

No. They don't learn anything but to fear the beater and people.

Nor is spanking children effective.
Unless of course you beat the kids brains out until they need to be rushed to the hospital. It didn't work on me. In fact it sort of egged me on to fight back. And when I did, it was the last time I was disciplined in that fashion. I guess I got a wittle too big for that.

I do not believe that any animal shoud ever be hit. Kids I am not so sure about, I got plenty of woopins in my day and I am none the worse for the ware. I deserved each and every one of them, but animals have no clue as to why they are being hit. I did.
Lisa

I'm firmly in the camp of no hitting. The saddest sight in the world is a dog who cringes when a hand is lifted anywhere near his/her face. My dogs know when they've done something "wrong" by the tone of my voice. My cat was trained with a loud hand-clap when she was in the wrong. IMO hitting an animal only serves to satisfy the human's immediate need for self-gratification (i.e. I'm angry and I need to have a tantrum) and does nothing for the actual training of a pet.

Your story just realtes how effective hitting an animal is. The guy has no control over his dogs, why, because hitting them only makes them afraid of you or your hand. His dogs dont see him as a threat at all, even hitting them. He has obviously has failed any anger management classes...snort...Too bad the guy is allowed to have animals, and that he is allowed to have kids without himhaving to go to some sort of emotional 101 classes.

I don't hit my puppy or my children for that matter! lol! They know when the tone of my voice changes that they should stop what they are doing, kids and dogs included :)
Now if I can just get the hubby to learn it, I'd be set! LOL!

I always wondered about parents that said, "Do you want a spanking?"

So my dogs will come running when I say "who wants a spanking?" I take a piece of mail, a window envelope that crackles and smack them all over with it. They love it and try to push the other dog out of the way. They try to bite it and get it. One of the stupid games we play.

the trauma from hitting a dog on the rear-end may not show up till later in life. It has been known to cause hip displasia(not sure on spelling-sorry)and using a newspaper can cause the animal fear or any other weapon shaall we say. Think about it you see a newspaper coming at you one of 2 things is going to happen your gonna try and bite the thing that hurt you or your gonna try and bite the person holding the thing that hurt you. Now we have the poor paper boy trying to deliver your paper that just got bit by your dog and the poor boy hasn't done anything to the dog.A strong reprimand of no, should be good. Look up positive approaches to dog traing on your pc,there should be a few places to look.

i

Not okay under any circumstance.

Even if spanking were okay, what did those dogs learn? The guy didn't hit them while they were chasing your dog, which is the behavior he's trying to extinguish. Instead, he hit them after they came back (or were dragged back). So they learned that it doesn't pay to come back to him. Next time, they may escalate the chase, running faster and harder after another dog. And if he grabs them then, they may bite.

Sorry, but I just don't think hitting is okay in any situation. A head-shy dog can be a scary dog. There's only one way I'll touch my dog when correcting her -- with a gentle poke on the hindquarters while I say "boop!" or some other cartoony, high-pitched noise. It's simply to get her attention and break whatever she's fixating on, be it another dog, a squirrel, etc.

My poor Casey was a rescue. When I met him, he lived with a young man down the street. He had escaped and was in my garbage on Good Friday. It took until Saturday at 2 in the afternoon to figure out where he lived. When we took him back, Casey just cringed at the feet of his "owner". The guy came by to pay us the vet bill on Tuesday and told DH that the dog was bad and that he had returned it to the pound. When I rescued him a few days later, poor Casey threw his arms around my neck and moaned and sobbed. A few years later, Dear Father-in-law went to swat an insect with a newspaper and poor Casey slunk out of his comfy bed and tried to sneak away. We realized then that he had been traumatized by newspaper swats in the past. I have to tell him he is a good dog before and after swatting any bugs, even today - four years since he was last hit!

When I was a kid, my dad disciplined our dog by swatting a rolled- up newspaper NEXT to her. It made a big noise and startled her. It distracted her from her behavior at the time,that's all. I would never, ever hit any animal.

I only struck an animal once in my life, and I've had A Lot of animals. We had a part-collie, a beautiful and sweet young dog who was gentle and well-behaved, but on rare occasions, made a mess in the house. At the time of this event, our son was nearing 3 yrs. and was still not totally potty-trained (I was a fairly relaxed mother about this, never yelled at him or punished him for his "accidents".). One day I came home and dear doggie was in the act of pooping in the hall. I lost it, grabbed and rolled up a newspaper and whapped him on the butt, with some very strong words as well. He never made a mistake again and remained the wonderful dog he was.

But - even better - our son, who observed the whole event, also never made another mistake. I only realized this about a week later. When I praised him for going into regular underpants, he said, "I just felt bad for Snoopy".

NO SPANKING...NEVER! That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Nothing could ever change my mind. My dogs trust me, I won't betray that trust by getting physical like a spanking. A swift jerk on leash with a command is different, but spanking? Absolutely, NOT.........

Never say "never".

Do I advocate hitting anything? No. Have I done it? Yup.

Once when the Springer refused to get "OFF" the chair and I reached for her collar to enforce the command. She snapped at me. I backhanded her immediately and hauled her out of the chair. She never snapped at me again.

My boss's untrained, out of control dog (Rat terrier) stole my lunch (I had gone to answer the 'phone) and ran under her desk with the purloined prize. When I reached for the dog it snarled and snapped. I made a noose out of some leech line and slipped it over the dog's head. And administered 3 quick jerks and a stern, "NO!" before dragging him out and taking the forbidden fruit away. To this day, he never curls a lip or threatens me in any way, though everyone else is "fair game".

I'm all for training, don't get me wrong. But faced with a nasty dog vying for superiority, I'll do what I must to establish the pecking order.

(I have no problem with a quick swat on the backside for kids, either)

My 2 goldens took off one time and would not come when I called them. I was in a real hurry and needed the dogs in the house. I decided that when I got them back home I was going to beat the hell out of them. At this time I had never hit them. When they finally came home becuase I told them we were going for a ride.(Yes, I had to trick them) I was so mad I popped one of the goldens on top of his nose. He was so happy about getting to go for a ride that he never even knew I had hit him. That was the last time I hit a dog. It just doesn't do any good.

I say no because it adds to the confusion. I had a dog named Dobie she was Kelpi and Dingo, My dh was a horseshoer for 25 years, we went to a ranch to shoe a horse and there was a beautiful dog tied to a tree on a very short rope. In fact she was snuged to the tree, I asked about the dog and was told he was planning on shooting the dog after we left. I asked if I could have the dog. He said her name was dopee she wouldn't do what he said, he showed me a 2x4 with a handle cut on it and told me he knocked the dog out with it and she still wouldn't obey. I took her home she was nuts because of the abuse, she would run away when loose and would fall over if she was given any dog commands. She would wait to be beaten then left alone. I used hand signs on her because they didn't scare her, we also kept her on a leash and with us at all times. She died 20 years ago and we still miss her so much. My McNab Skeeter was abused but having Dobie taught me so much.

OMG!!!! That poor Dobie!!! Did he ever get to trust you?
What a cruel man to have done that to an animal. We are here on this earth as caretakers of the animals. Yet some people become their abusers. I can't stand it!!
You, acorn, are an angel. God Bless You!!!!

Yep, different people have different ideas of what constitutes a spanking. In my case it means a pop on the behind.. to others it could mean repetitive smacks. I have spanked my kids and I have spanked my dogs. Well, a smack on the rump, not too hard because I don't want to hurt MY hand. :)

Probably once a year or so I find reason to pop my dog.. usually to get his attention in an excited moment. What hurts him worse is the "evil eye". Just a certain look will hurt his feelings. Makes me feel sorta guilty, but he knows I mean business.

As far as it makes them fearful of newspaper, flyswatters, etc., I believe it depends on the individual dogs personality. My mothers peke is terrified when she uses the flyswatter (on flies) yet he has never been disciplined in that way. My dog would play with the flyswatter even though he's had it against his rump before and certainly has no worries if I'm hunting flies. He just has no reason to fear it.. what he has to be concerned with is an unhappy mommy. After all, he might get the evil eye!

Still, I don't believe you spank/hit/swat/pop anything or anyone to hurt them. Just to get their attention when need be. I guess it just comes down to personal preference on how to gain someone's attention.

It is never okay to hit an animal. If necessary, roll up a magazine and hit it with your hand and tell the dog "no!". Believe me, the dog will understand. PLEASE NEVER HIT AN ANIMAL! THAT'S WRONG!

Is the dog a self-confident, strong-willed individual?

If yes, then it will survive (psychologically) the hitting. I have an English Bulldog/Cattle Dog cross - physically strong and very selt-confident. He will pick on one of my other dogs who is just a mild-mannered individual. Yes, I hit him for that - he's just being an a**hole bully. But he is loved dearly and we are emotionally close so he takes it as it is intended - as a strong signal to STOP what you are doing!!

It's not wrong to discipline a dog - it's the larger context of the life of the dog. Hitting can certainly be abusive but my dogs are so loved that they know that I'm just mad at what they are doing.

vicky

My shephard approached my sister when we were sitting at the table getting ready to eat in my house. Dh was sitting next to her. As pup, who's head was just under the height of the table, approached her to sniff the table action, she smacked him on the snout. It made a loud thump!. Dh in a very firm manner told her to never hit his dog again, ever! OMG!! My entire family heard of the incident within days and treated my dh horribly for his disciplining my sis. Instead of scolding her for harming my puppy, they scolded him for protecting the dog. What a bunch of nuts! She soon got a dog and they routinely hit, I won't even say smack, her on the snout if she sniffs where she should not. They leave the trash in middle of kitchen, bag open, and expect her to not go near it. They leave laundry basket in middle of room for her to be tempted to snack on one, only to be smacked repetatively on the snout. I cringe every time they do it, and the dog cringes as they do it.

I have given my dog a shove on the snout or tap, but never hit him. He is large so there are many times when he has to be dragged away from the table by the collar. Now that he is 13 I have to yell at him a lot. Not because I like to yell at him, but because he is losing his hearing and a quiet no does not work any more. He needs to feel the vibration of a foot stomp on the floor and a loud deep NO. Neighbors must think we are really mean.

As for my kids, I do not spank. I have given a firm swat but never out of anger. As for yelling... they are not deaf, just have selective hearing.

Oh I didn't answer the question. Have I ever, yes. Do I condone it, no. For an extremely severe offense I have given em a smack. But with Rottweilers with bad hips, you thump them on the head.

For some dogs I've given chin spankings. I grab them under the chin, palm up, and smack my wrist hard enough to make a red mark. Some dogs will act as if they've been scolded, some will go, that didn't hurt me.

Dogs don't understand "hit" & anyone who hits any animal might as well hang a huge neon flashing sign around their neck saying "I'm not very bright, I'm out of control & I'm having a tantrum"
That's not to say animals don't understand physical violence. They understand it extremely well. I learned dog discipline from watching my b*tches with their pups. Mum doesn't take any nonsence. And bubs only ever have to be told twice at the most, usually once. Mum says no, then grabs you round the neck & gives you a good scruffing with a lot of noise. (If you watch closely you will see that mum won't actually hurt bub, just scare the living daylights out of him with a lot of noise on both sides, mum growling, baby screaming)
I have found this to be very effective for adult dogs. In milder offences, I pinch a bit of skin on the back of the neck & give it a gentle tug while growling softley. I've only had one really serious offence. My old kelpie dingo b*tch got hold of one of my little older shelties & was giving her a hiding & wouldn't let go. When she did drop her she took off under a car. I couldn't let it go. I love the old girl, but I also love the shelties, and she might kill one if I don't exercise my responsibility to be the dominant dog.
So I got under the car, grabbed her by the scruff of the neck, and dragged her out into the open, growling loudly. I stood over her & gave the pinched up skin a few quick, firm shakes. She was on her back in a submissive position & I felt absolutley sick doing it, but it was my responsibility to all nine of my dogs that I maintain Alpha status.There is never any need to physically hurt a dog. What you are aiming for is a re-enactment of what mum does, plenty of noise & attitude but no harm. My dogs love me with all their strength, & just the shame & sorrow of (human) mum doing this is more terrible than any beating. It's also more effective because it's in language that the dog understands.
A few years ago Dr Harry gave me some advice for dealing with a yearling foal that had discovered how much fun it was to bite humans. (We had tried a few techniques that made sense to humans, but none that made sense to horses) "Treat him just like his mother would" said Dr Harry. "When he bites you, kick him. Mum certainly would." So I went straight down to the yards, knowing I could try this out straight away, because by now he was having so much fun that he bit anyone that came near enough. He bit me, I kicked him, hard, in the shins. He looked absolutley stunned. And he didn't bite again for about five months. On the day he tried it again, I was lucky enough to see it coming. I could read his eyes. "I wonder if that was just coincidence that day when I bit her & something kicked me in the shins? Maybe I should try it again because it was heaps of fun & it would be a shame to let it slide for no good reason..." Bite, kick, stunned expression, never ever to bite again.
Now why didn't I think of that?

Yes, helenlee - i smack my donkey when he bites. He's about a year old and he gets the message.

vicky

I would never hit my dog, I have tapped them lightly, more like a pat when scolding in the past but this really was not beneficial.
What works better is dominant posture from the human, ignore/reward and things that startle for the stubborn pig headed dogs. Like smacking the paper on your hand, but never do that with a dog that was actually beaten with a paper. You basically are just showing alpha posturing and
saying look how tuff I am, so the dog gets the message of I better not that again or my big alpha might take me down. Mostly it's about looks and just small sharp ""SHHH" noise used with the right energy can shut up 80% of dogs right away.

No i don't spank my dogs. I swatted my big hound once and he just gave me an "Are you crazy?" look. i can controll him pretty good with a stern no! or out!
My little chipug was an abused dog so i can't even scold her without her going to hide. so she,s learned that when i shake my head at her that means no. She also knows how far she can push me before i shake my head too. It don't bother her for me to scold my big dog either.
Guess i've been lucky not to have a dog with a discipline problem.
I hate to see a dog cringe too and am always tempted to kick owner,but never have yet.LOL

Helenlee's approach works well with my dogs. If you have a strong alpha, you might have to add another technique. My male dog will sometimes challenge me and my female dog will follow him. Sometimes, when they are not obeying me, I will roll them (or him) onto their backs and growl at them. This seems to re-establish the pecking order.

I don't ever advocate spanking. Dogs are different than children. I know for children, from first hand experience, it really messes them up. I can't say I know anyone well adjusted that has been hit as a child.

So I don't hit animals either.

I don't know if anyone watches The Dog Whisperer but I like what Ceaser Millan does. He makes a claw w/ his hand and firmly applies pressure to the side of the dog's neck. It can't possibly hurt but they will feel it. It mimicks what the dominant dog will do when they're keeping the subordinants in line. It's like a doggy slap on the hand.

And you should never allow food agressive behavor. Not towards you, not towards anyone, even the other dogs. The dog isn't respecting your authority. If they don't respect you, you'll have all kind of problems with the dog trying to be the "top dog".

NO IT'S NOT O.K.

Spanking or hitting a dog just should not be done. They don't know why they are being hit, it hurts, and can lead to other problems. Your hand should ONLY be one of friendship not fear.

Look at it this way. When kids get hit, it does nothing to correct their problems, it just makes them fearful of their parents. Same with dogs.

You need to find another way to disipline your dog through kindness and rewards for GOOD behavior.

SG

I never hit my dogs, and have had each from 8-10 weeks old. Shamus (16# shih tsu) is very skittish none the less. Cringes, gets scared very easily. We always joke that he acts like we beat him- but he's been nothing but spoiled :)

As for cringing at a hand near the head - my dog does that because he generally doesn't like to be pet on the head, so he cringes and backs away. He's never been hit. So if you see dogs who do this, don't assume they've been hit - they may be like my dog.