Water Softener Help

9 years ago

Good morning,

I'm moving into a new home in Texas (Houston) and am unfamiliar with water softeners and was hoping for clarification. I've had the water tested by two independent companies and found roughly 8-9 gpg of calcium and levels > 2 for chlorine. I also pulled the local municipal utility district's water report for 2012 and can provide that if needed for the forum. Ultimately I found that chloramine levels are also quite. I'm convinced I need both a water softener and filtering system but am now more confused by the 5 companies I've asked for estimates from.

These are the products they're offering in order of price (low to high):

Company #1: Smart Choice Gen II City ($2130 includes install)
Company #2: Watts 2 tank system w/Fleck valve ($2995 for carbon filter and install, also throwing in RO system which I don't think I need)
Company #3: Hydrospring proprietary 2 tank system ($3435 includes install)
Company #4: Puronics Terminator ($3795 plus additional $ for install)
Company #5: Plumber's Choice 2 tank system w/catalytic carbon ($4022 includes install)

Any ideas? Help would be greatly appreciated.
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Comments (6)

jcalhoun
9 years ago
What's wrong with the water you already have?
User
9 years ago
You'll want to treat the water that is at your meter today rather than 2012. Water authority reports are usually a couple years behind and taken at the treatment facility not at the end of the system pipes and vales at your house.

Water tests from companies that are trying to sell you water treatment equipment can be dubious to say the least.

In order to discuss water treatment intelligently we need the results of tests from a certified independent lab. You want to test for...

hardness, iron (ferrous and ferric), manganese, pH, TDS, chlorine, sodium, and arsenic at minimum. If on a private well you'd add tests for nitrates and bacteria.

With that data and water use info (# of people, # of bathrooms, diameter of plumbing at softener, and SFR of the plumbing) we can recommend correctly sized and configured equipment .
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How old is the softener? Been doing routine maintenance on the softener? Check to make sure the drain line from the softener control is not obstructed or collapsed restricting the flow during regeneration. Culligan uses proprietary control valves and parts are only available through Culligan dealers. These are the only manuals for the Culligan Gold that I've ever found and they are only owner's manuals... clcik here for Gold series from 2002 clcik here for Gold series from 2004
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In order to speak intelligently about sizing a water softener we need the results of a comprehensive water test... especially with the information you have offered. Get a water test from an independent lab. An independent lab has no agenda and won't be trying to sell you water treatment equipment. This is a MUST DO because without it everything is a guess. A quickie water test from Sears or a water softener company won't be as accurate (and possibly not as competent) as from a certified independent lab. Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Call Kinetico and at least a couple independent water treatment pros. You'll learn that there are alternatives to Kinetico that work as well and for as long at a much lower cost. DON'T TELL THEM YOU HAD YOUR WATER TESTED. Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated. Ask lots of questions. Softening the entire house or just the water heater (IMO a bad idea)? Warranty, parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale. After they've gone use your water test to compare with theirs. Are all your treatment needs being addressed? Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid. Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware components with the costs and we'll give you our opinions. If you're a DIYer then you have other options but remember, when you do it yourself there's no one else to blame.
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Thank you for your response. I have a Watco WS1 Water Softener and after looking around the web for a pic of it I found this. http://onsmartpages.com/weilhammerplumbingco/pictures/view_alone.nhtml?profile=pictures&UID=10290 now I have that little gray plastic tip thats shown in the pic. I didn't know what it was for (apparently for going down from 1" to 3/4 lol) I didn't know you could sweat PVC to copper. but there it is (does anyone know how to do that?) as for my loop I couldn't find a pic that resembles mine all I can say is its in the garage there are two copper lines sticking out of my wall with a bypass hooked up to it. It is for all the water in my house as far as I know and it is about 12" below where the water softener hook ups are (on the softener) again thank you all.
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What biermech said is only partially true. In residential settings hardness is typically measured in gpg (grains per gallon). One grain = 17.1 ppm (parts per million). While it is true that a softener in good working order will register 0 gpg, it is also true that there is no such thing as absolute zero hardness from a softener. All softeners bleed hardness between 0.5 and 8 ppm, depending upon how the softener is programmed. If a softener is regenerated with obscene amounts of salt, it will bleed very low hardness and the water will feel quite slippery. If a softener is regenerated with a low salt dosage, it will bleed a few ppm more hardness. Many people will notice the difference in feel between a softener regenerated with a 6 lb salt/cubic ft of resin dose and 8 lb salt/CF. When salt dosage is decreased, softener capacity also decreases. This, in turn, reduces the time between regenerations which increase wear and tear on the valve. If your softener is large enough, you can reduce the salt dosage a bit and see if you prefer the feel of the water. In order for me to determine if it is practical to reduce salt dosage, please provide the following information: Cubic ft of resin in your softener Specific resin installed Softener controller - you indicated that you wanted a Fleck 7000sxt. Please confirm. BLFC size if you have a Fleck. This will be on a small sticker, approximately 1"x1", on the exterior where the drain line attaches and should be in the range of 0.125 - 0.5 gpm. Current settings for: Hardness Backwash Brine draw Rapid rinsh Brine fill Day override This post was edited by aliceinwonderland_id on Thu, Jan 29, 15 at 10:29
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Locog8r
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks to both of you for responding to my post.

One of the companies that tested my water was a plumbing company that also installs water softeners although they're not wedded to any product line, etc. Are independent labs easily found? Do you recommend any one in particular? What's usual turn around time for lab testing?

As for the house, there's going to be 2 adults and 2 children (with frequent guests-grandparents), 3 bathrooms, 5/8" at main water meter.

As for "what's wrong" with the water, I'm scared about the chloramine/chlorine levels.

Thanks again
User
9 years ago
Your local environmental heath department can steer you to certified labs and so can the Yellow Pages.

Not interested in the 5/8" at the meter. What is the plumbing at the softener install location in the house... 3/4" or 1" or 1.25" ?

There is great debate regarding anti bacterials in the water but the reality is that chlorine and chloramines are in the water for a reason. I don't favor filtering them out at the POE. If they really bother you in the shower you can look into pou (point of use) filters.

You might consider an under sink RO in the kitchen for drinking and cooking water and the icemaker in the fridge. That will remove your chlorine.
jcalhoun
9 years ago
The chloramine/chlorine levels are perfectly safe in tap water. You have nothing to worry about there.

The consumer confidence report is the water quality results of over 100 possible contaminants found in public drinking water. It will also tell you the hardness, pH, tds, etc.

This is a composite sample from multiple times and locations in the water system, not just at the treatment plant or well head.
User
9 years ago
"This is a composite sample from multiple times and locations in the water system, not just at the treatment plant or well head" from 2 years ago and not after the water travels how many miles through how many year old pipes and valves and arrives at your water meter.

Water treatment is chemistry, physics, and mechanics. Disciplines that don't embrace dated or generalized or averaged data to arrive at an exact result.

If one wants to treat the water in their home today they have the water at their home tested today... but that's just me. The fact that consumer confidence reports often list ranges of results indicates that those reports are meant for a different purpose (which is to satisfy the EPA requirements) other than the treatment of the water at any specific location in the system. No control valve I've ever seen accept ranges of values for settings, but rather a specific value. If you're interested in correctly sizing a softener and setting it up for the most efficient operation then have your water tested.

This post was edited by justalurker on Fri, Jul 11, 14 at 9:31

Water Softener Help

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jcalhoun

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jcalhoun

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