I watch the sunrise (cause I'm in the deer blind) in my pink fuzzy house shoes and never take the brush rollers outta my hair. And I write fairy tales during the commercials when I'm watching Roller Derby, unless it's a Spam commercial. I don't wanna miss any new recipes.

People from around the country still think all Oklahoman's are like the characters in "Grapes of Wrath."

In Jr. High I had the major hots for a guy named "Bubba." It was his given name. Boy was he hot! Oh wait, I think saying "Boy" is politically incorrect. :)

Yes, oakley, in some contexts it is more than politically incorrect. The humor of your post was completely undone by that last line which revealed that you know exactly how and why that term is sometimes offensive.

Oh Em Gee!! Did someone show some weakness? Some sensitivity? Yippee!! Let's git her, eh? I just love it that I can hide behind my computer, be anonymous and be as big a beehive as I want. It makes me feel so much better about ME ME ME and my low self esteem. Be nice? Be considerate? What for? Why should I? And while we're at it, why do I have to be considerate of anyone's religion or race or BMI? If someone takes offense at what I say, that's THEIR problem. May the loudest, longest, meanest post win. It's survival of the forum fittest. If you ain't got a thick skin, too bad, so sad for you, because I am gonna make you sorry you ever said anything to ME ME ME. It's really too bad we're not all in a room together, because that would be even better sport. Then we could shout each other down or the bigger ones could push the smaller ones out of the room or under a table. FU-UN!!!

Is it really any wonder that bullying is such a problem today, or that kids are ganging up and beating on each other and videotaping it, or that it's questionable as to whether or not raping an unconscious girl and then taking pictures of her to post on the Internet is wrong?

What a horrible thing you've done, Jana, asking us to be considerate. My goodness, can't you see how difficult that is for some of these people? While I might not have ever said it, or been offended if someone else said it, now that you have mentioned it, I won't be thinking about ME, I'll be thinking about YOU, and I will try to be mindful of your request - here and elsewhere.

Even when words have found general usage apart from their original meaning they can be hurtful to those for whom the label has personal significance. I'm all for being mindful of such things simply as a matter of respect and compassion.

Well said, Daisy. Bears repeating.

Gosh, I'd love to stay and post about ten more times and try to one up y'all, but I have better things to do with my time.

Bronwynsmom,

You forgot "the bridesmaids wear matching tube tops".

What are you talking about? I say "boy" all the time. Similar to the way Oakley said "Boy, was he hot!" I don't get it.

Nevermind, I don't want to know. I am not going to watch every little thing I say, that is ridiculous.

I had to look it up. I'm going to need an app for this too.

Well someone on the bathroom forum just told threeapples she needs to go to marriage counseling (and it doesn't seem like a joke). That's not even insensitive; it's completely ridiculous and prying.

This post was edited by KevinMP on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 2:25

I don't post anonymously. I'm quite easy to find.

You can't change other people because you have no control over them, what comes out of their mouths, or their behavior in general.

As far as other people's words and behavior, the only thing you can control is how you choose to respond to it. Because ultimately the only thing you can control is yourself.

I don't understand the need, the wanting to control other people's behavior and/or take control of their morale compass. It exhausts me just to think about how it must be to go thru day after day believing that it's possible to control people in that way.

Staying focused on what it is I can control, which is only myself, wears me out as it is. Can't imagine how draining it must be to try to take on the whole world and make it do only what I want it to do.

I'm an INTJ per Myers-Briggs. Sometimes turn to that when I need an explanation as to why I get totally lost and confused about the offended and hurt feelings stuff. Have to admit, I don't understand and cannot relate to a lot within this thread.

Ah, the privilege of privilege...to get to decide what we think is important enough to put some effort into, simply for the benefit of others who take the trouble to tell us something is hurtful for them.

Funcolors, (and this isn't all directed at you) I agree with much of what you say, however, I don't think this is simply trying to control others but it's about raising awareness of things that are out of our sphere: "I don't understand the need, the wanting to control other people's behavior and/or take control of their morale compass." If Rosa Parks, MLK, gay right's activists who made us see the inequity of our laws, disabled people who couldn't ride a bus or use a public bathroom didn't speak up, would anything have changed? People may say we are just speaking about language here, not civil rights and that's true, but it's all on a continuum. The privileged get to decide at what point they are going to quit "giving" or where on the spectrum is far enough.

It takes cooperation to make change; if many men hadn't had their awareness raised and agreed at some point to stop using (at least in business and gov't, and in most public forums) demeaning language and actions toward women, nothing for us would have changed. We could demand it, but they had to take the action that made the change.

I, for one, feel like it takes nothing from me, no effort at all to learn something new and make a small change that might make someone else's journey in this world a bit easier. Others have done the same for me.

Even it was, oly, odds are pretty good it'd go right over my head and/or I kinda wouldn't know to care. :)

Ah, the privilege of privilege...to get to decide what we think is important enough to put some effort into

Deciding what is important - I don't get how that's a privilege. Like, who else is going to decide what's important to me and deserving of effort if I don't? (seriously not being sarcastic or smarty pants, I don't get it)

I do get helping make someone else's journey easier if you can but at the same time it seems to me they could do it themselves. All they have to do is decide. For themselves.

And I wonder if sometimes telling them they had the power and control of their own journey all along isn't the best way to help make it easier. Like Glenda in the Wizard of Oz right before Dorothy clicks her heels three times and ~BAM~ then she's home and Auntie Em is trying to get her to wake up.

Well, white people have privilege (power in our culture), straight people have privilege, men have privilege, able bodied people have privilege. The less privileged can't just decide to HAVE privilege (power), the privileged have to let go of some of it.

I don't want to turn this into a debate about marriage equality, but it's a current example I'll use. If gay and lesbian people want to be able to marry and have the same privilege as straight people, they can't just decide to do it. What it takes is great numbers of straight people willing to work to give up the exclusive privilege (power to legally marry) to change the laws. There are not sufficient numbers of g/l's in power positions to change the laws on their own. Straight people have to decide to work for equality, seemingly without benefit to themselves. If straight people don't "decide" (that's where the power/privilege comes in) that there will be change, then there won't.

Probably as good example as any, oly.

To be honest I can't recall anyone describing decorating as "bipolor", but I don't read every thread, so I may have missed it. I also don't disagree with the OP, I think it's good to raise awareness and to look at life from a different seat and I appreciate her raising the point.

The OP mentioned a post by susieq07, who used an ethnic slur in a very casual way, as if it was an accepted thing to say. It was surprising to read and I'm glad she was called on it and that post was removed. And I don't know about anyone else, but IMO susieq07 specializes in tactless remarks, so I wasn't exactly shocked that it came from her.

So a consciousness raising post again turns into a "mean girls" diatribe from the usual suspects who only want to hear cheery affirmations of the decorating choices of others. I frankly do not see the mean/arrogant/cruel/whatever posts that some people talk about, and stand by my remarks that such reactions are passive/aggressive ways to get attention of the "poor you" variety.

sandyponder

Don't worry, Ollie. I expected a remark like that from Cyn. I'm used to it. Had you written it first, it wouldn't have been commented on. ;)

I see no problem with raising awareness also but from my perspective, it is a two way street. Some people are insensitive and don't even try to edit their wording, while others are so over sensitive, they tend to take everything said out of context.

The old saying "You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time" is especially true in a forum setting.

This thread reminds me of something that happened to me the other day. While sitting in the lunch room with a doctor and a drug rep, the doctor, who tends to be a little crass anyways said something cancer related that was off the cuff and pretty insensitive. Since he is fully aware of my husbands condition, I could have easily been offended yet I completely understood the context of the conversation and didn't think twice about it. Even so he instantly turned to me and apologized. My point is, just as the doctor had no purposeful intent of being insensitive with me, the people here or at least the majority of people here have decor on their minds and there are times when things are taken WAY out of context when they don't need to be. I've made that mistake myself on more than one occassion and soon realized that the intent of the poster needs to also fall into the equation before someone gets their feathers ruffled. In that regard what Funcolors is saying about it being a choice is very much true.

I also wonder if the divide here is age related. By that I mean is it a younger group striving for more sensitivity and an older group saying step back and quit being so over sensitive. Could a maturity that just comes with age and experience be part of the issue? I know for me, I used to be a real fighter but as I've aged, I've learned how to pick my battles more wisely.

Allison, I loved your comment about having to buy an app, too funny.

Why is it that threads like this get so much action while so many valid decorating questions get so little?. That just does not make any sense to me.

Ollie, we all use boy. It is just a word and that is not at all what I was saying. That would be absurd. Oakley's final comment showed another side and was unnecessary because we all use boy as in "boy, was he hot!" as she had. No one would have thought a thing of it if she hadn't added Oh wait, I think saying "Boy" is politically incorrect. :) right after that. Her comment showed another side of it that is absolutely unacceptable, especially after the post just before hers that alluded to racism which is probably what brought that term to her mind. Adding a happy face or LOL does not make it okay to make implications that are hurtful. I am sure she will say she did not read that previous post. Fine, whatever.

I would have called anyone on that. I have no interest whatsoever in singling anyone person out and I think most people here know that. If anyone wants to hold her own pity party because she thinks she is being picked on, have at it.

Lukki, I would almost guess that if the viewpoints do skew according to age, it may be the older folks who are asking for more sensitivity. We lived through all those difficult times when people did need to take a stand. I think, though, that age may not be a factor here.

This post was edited by cyn427 on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 9:31

Leprechaun Day?

I think we get engaged with these topics here because it's a relatively safe place in this terribly polarized world to talk about these things.

We care about neighborhood, house and home, which is why we post here, and it's not a far leap to go from that spirit to concern for the larger world.

We've created a community of people who don't all agree, but who generally trust and respect each other, and I think it's nice that GW allows us the flexibility to get into things like this from time to time.

Re the 'boy' comment - she was clearly joking, not about the fact that 'boy' can be terribly offensive in certain situations, but that it is another word that can be both used very offensively or completely inoffensively depending on the context.
I would personally also put describing a room as schizophrenic in that same category and find it completely inoffensive in that context, but I appreciate the heads up that everyone does not agree. I certainly wouldn't want to deliberately hurt someone's feelings but I do not think anyone here has been 'mean' about it. They've just pointed out that it can be nearly impossible to avoid every word that someone might take offense to.
There is an ever expanding list of words I think everyone agrees are offensive to most people but it can be tough to keep up with all the rest.

I've tried to stay out of this one, but as usual, I just can't. Whether a word is legit or not apparently has no bearing on whether or not the PC police will come after you.

A fellow in our area, a local politician, was forced to publicly apologize for describing the budget as "niggardly." Now the word is from the 1500s, possibly Dutch/Swedish in origin and means "stingy, miserly". It has no relation whatsoever to the N word other than it has a similar sound.

I'm all for not intentionally hurting other people, esp by the words we use which are so easy to change with a little thought.

I'm also all for understanding the spirit with which the words were said. I have enough in my history that some common phrases cut me to the quick, but I recognize the person is not aware of my history or is as mindful of it as I am, so I just let it go.

Like so many things, there is a continuum along which we live from using intentionally offensive words in a hurtful way to being afraid to say anything. I think that, should legitimate words and definitions that are not offensive by definition or intent accidentally offend someone, the offended should just let it go.

As words and their definitions change over time, so will their use and acceptance and it behooves us to keep up with this so we can avoid unintentionally hurting someone.

However, when we get to the point where we can't say "love" as it may remind someone of their tennis losses, we've gone too far.

Interesting thread.

I particularly identify with Marcolo's and Allison's comments.

The question is, is anyone supposed to allow people to shoot at their feet and say dance, then criticize the dance?

Then, if you don't dance every time thereafter when the shots are fired, you're accused of ________take your pick (bigotry, racism, insensitivity, etc.)

It's a control issue.

The question is, who are you going to let control you?

Certainly I would think most people do not intend to hurt others.

Whether someone is offended, I would think a reasonable person could assess the situation and realize that an offense was intended, or if it was not, then they CHOOSE to be offended.

That's their problem.

Well, white people have privilege (power in our culture), straight people have privilege, men have privilege, able bodied people have privilege. The less privileged can't just decide to HAVE privilege (power), the privileged have to let go of some of it.

Since the bucket of worms has been opened*, why is it okay to say "white people" but not "black people?" I have no idea the color of oly's skin (and really don't care, but since she posted it I'm not not pulling her name out of thin air**) but saying "white people" comes off as being racist towards whites - I recently mentioned this in another thread. It boils down to "you can't have it both ways," doesn't it?!

I'm also a bit perplexed at "more have to let go of it" since we have more mayors and police chiefs of color*** than ever, not to mention the President when it comes to "privilege" in her post "(power in our culture.)"

My intention is not to stir the pot or get burned at the stake****, but since we're discussing...

*No worms were harmed when opening the bucket.

**No offense intended toward magicians or their rabbits.

*** No offense intended toward Crayola.

****No offense intended toward witches, warlocks, Wiccans or Pagans.

Hoboken, thanks for getting it. I was just trying to explain that using "boy" in the context I did is completely harmless but there's always someone who causes a big stink over it. Just because they can.

Instead of picking on people who are sensitive to harmful words, why aren't we picking on those who have no empathy towards others? Why pick on people who aren't going out of their way to be mean, while giving those who do go out of their way to be mean a pass?

It's like telling the schoolyard bully they can keep on bullying.

Lukki, I don't think it's age related. It's just the way some people are.

You can no longer say "black people?" Uh oh. I really had no idea. Kinda proves my point in a previous post. Guess I've been going around unintentionally offending people, probably for awhile now.

And I really hate conflict. Can't we all just get along? Wanna lick of my ice cream cone?

I agree! Saying "white" people is very racist. And, I’m sick of all this privileged talk that’s used in an attempt to program non-minorities to feel guilty for being who they are and make them manageable. Sheesh, why not put all non-minorities on drugs to zombie-fy them. There have been a lot of changes since the sixties, people of all back grounds have choices now and help from the government to get there in many cases.
I find the word “privileged” highly offensive. What that says to me is that all the suffering I went through as a child should not be acknowledged because I am over half Caucasian. What percent of other blood does one need to get the full pity treatment? It’s all a bunch of hogwash! If I wouldn’t have knocked the chip off my shoulder early on and couldn’t make it in the world it would have been my own damn fault. We all have choices and the other thing that’s so very bad about the “privileged” topic is that it keeps those with a victim mentality Victims. Yes I agree that common courtesy and manners should be expected but let’s all not turn into a bunch of whiny babies about it.

This post was edited by jterrilynn on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 13:48

I have never posted on this GW forum before, y'all intimidate the heck out of me! But I never fail to read every topic.

This discussion has been fascinating. After reading Publickman's post, I finally decided to be brave enough to post.

I was raised in Memphis, TN but have been in rural West Texas for 29 years. Texas is not southern, it is a culture unlike any other.

I don't believe I have ever been intentionally insensitive or hurtful even though extreme "pc-ness" makes me involuntarily roll my eyes and heave a sigh.

I traveled to Austin last week with a group of my coworkers to receive an award from Texas Monthly. We are in healthcare. You have to be blessed with mighty thick skin to work in healthcare in Texas if you are anything but ultraconservative. I am not ultraconservative. The most progress I have made with this group of people is they now glance around to check for my presence before using the most hateful language possible to describe our president.

However, this same group of people are now not speaking to me; I offended them. How? I did not join the standing ovation for Governor Rick Perry.

It seems that no matter what the issue or offense, applying outrage OR an eyeroll of dismissal with an even hand is not possible.

Expecting both sides of a political argument to diligently work toward some sort of resolution that allows everyone to continue a respectful relationship does not seem to be possible, either.

How did this happen?

I think the protests are as out of hand as political correctness has become.

I think this is pretty much a civilized discussion and it seems like we are all getting along, even if not agreeing.

As far as being age related, I'm 65, and have worked for many (25) years as a trainer for non-profits to help increase awareness of the "privileged" so as to make the workplace a safer, less racist, less homophobic, etc. place for all. The goal is to increase the diversity mix of staff, volunteers and clients. Nothing that's been said here is new or surprising. I used to think and say many similar things, but slowly my attitudes and awareness changed. And I don't feel I act from a place of guilt at all, nor am I trying to make anyone feel guilty. But maybe someone or a few someone's will think about things in a new or different light. :)

>I think the protests are as out of hand as political correctness has becomeI agree. I believe this is exactly what has happened.

so.........I may be making a leap that is too far, but..... "Doth protest too much" is what comes to mind.

"Doth protest too much"

lol, I was thinking that yesterday. A far more interesting aspect, IMO.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 13:17

"You can no longer say "black people?" Uh oh. I really had no idea. "

Not so quick.

I've been using "African American" for decades.. I see nothing wrong with this if you need to describe someone's appearance or background, for instance. Listening to Tavis Smiley recently, a guest was going on about how he is not African American. He is American. I think he wanted "black" to be used. I'm not sure though. I was in shock and missed it, lol.

So now I don't know what to say if I need or want to clarify something. I always felt AM was more respectful than referring to their skin color (which I believe was a no no term growing up as it was something we were not really supposed see for some reason!).

So, "black" might actually be preferable!

I am white. I don't mind being referred to as white. I can listen to jokes that refer to white people and laugh at the humor, take the point or not be offended.

Of course, I do not like at all clearly racial and militant mentalities or actions towards "white people" even though I can understand where they come from. That is a different category of behavior.

I would totally use the term 'black lady', 'black gentleman' or similar to describe someone if I didn't know their name. In stores if someone had helped me I might say 'the blonde lady over there' or 'the black guy in the red shirt' or whatever.

I had two friends called Sarah both of whom were English and one black and one white - when telling my husband a story of mentioning them in some way I would say white Sarah or black Sarah. Why not? That's what they are?

I really don't understand being upset about that. Really I don't. Any more than being described as a brunette or blonde, tall or short, Latina, Indian, English, American, etc.

Awareness was raised in this thread so it's mission accomplished, the OP presented her case well.

Cattyles, I applaud your courage in not joining the standing ovation.

P.S. I didn't mean to imply that using the term black is actually being disrespectful. I don't think it is either, as you say. I just knew it was sensitive territory (understandably) and AM might have been the recommended alternative at the time to avoid insulting someone.

"Why pick on people who aren't going out of their way to be mean, while giving those who do go out of their way to be mean a pass? It's like telling the schoolyard bully they can keep on bullying."

Because that's the difference between aggressive people and non-aggressive people.

My guess is that the guest on the Tavis Smiley show just wanted to be thought of as American and was making no point other than that.

True, that's exactly what he said. That he was not from Africa so why call him AM. It came up and he was laughing about it. He was American like anyone else.

But I believe he did say he didn't want to be called African American. He was American

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 15:32

As you probably already know, I'm white, Southern, straight, married, 65, and have always considered myself privileged, even though my household never had any money to speak of.

I was privileged because:
- I grew up in a house where people were gentle and loving to each other.
- I was raised with music and books and games and some lovely old things to use every day.
- I was taught things that have helped me to navigate relatively successfully through life.

All very nice.
But the real and underlying privilege of my circumstances was that I was protected by the system and by the law.
Had I been a different color, that would not necessarily have been the case. Had I not been straight, or blessed with a quick mind, or reasonably attractive, I would not have been able to move so easily through the world. And had I not been "one of us," there would have been many gracious and sometimes powerful institutions into which I would not have been invited.

So when I hear "privileged" used as a pejorative, I think that the speaker must mean "entitled."

Privilege is a gift that is accidental, not earned. Entitlement, in my view, indicates an abdication of the responsibilities that come with privilege - the responsibility to keep an open mind and a kind heart; to share the wealth of privilege, whether it's money or access or knowledge; to stay on the right side of the line between discernment and judgment; to respect the person even if you don't like the behavior; to be tolerant of differences and intolerant of unfairness; and to protect, with whatever power your position grants you, the right of every person to equal treatment and equal protection under the law.

I wish I lived up to those responsibilities all the time, but I know them, and that's part of my privilege, too.

So I am right there with olychick when she says that it is those of us on the safe side of the river who must build the bridges.

Beautifully said, Bronswynsmom. Thank you.

Wonderful, Bronwynsmom. I imagine we all agree with what you said. Thank you.

Agree very strongly with that, Bronwynsmom. I have heard it called "cultural capital" and prefer that rather than privilege. Those of us who have benefited from generations of cultural capital by the simple fact of our color have a responsibility to be mindful of the problems this gap has created and exist to this day, to be generous when and where we can both personally and as a corporate body, and to support the "hand out" when it is obvious that it is necessary before a person can take advantage of the "hand up."

Yes, Brownwyn's mom, very nicely said. I did also mean privilege...and believe the privileged hold society's power.

Bronwyn's mom: perfectly said.

Yes that was well said. Still, I can’t help but wonder if the older generation of ladies want to somehow keep the fire and comradely of the sixties alive to re-live those times and the fight against racism of “that” day. Things have come a long way since and yes have a little way to go. At this point though, people need to learn personal responsibility, look forward not back. At my sons place of employment he was recently passed up for a promotion to a women who did not test as high nor was her work record as stellar. However, she was involved in a lawsuit against the company over women not getting promoted. The fact is that the majority of managers are women there “that is a fact”. The lawsuit went nowhere but I guess she made them nervous. My son was upset and decided to use his part American Indian status and even temporarily changed his online personal information because he knew the minority part would spiral him up. He told me tonight he changed it back to Caucasian from the earlier Caucasian/ American Indian because he wanted to make it on his own merits. Maybe it’s just the people I and my grown sons know but we do not know any young adult minorities as preoccupied with race as the older Caucasian women and older minorities who did live with injustice.

This post was edited by jterrilynn on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 19:21

Nice to see the topic fully (or almost) explored without the convo turning nasty or negative and then screeching to a premature halt. Agree, disagree, agree to disagree. You rock.

Jterrilynn. I think it must be the people you know personally, because all the young black college students and young professionals I know through my children are very concerned about race and the problems it still confers in our society.