Service Line Questions (long)

15 years ago

About 5 years ago I had a contractor install a 1" copper service line into my basement (cement block foundation) from the meter vault out by the street. It was a new installation, about 100' in length, new meter, new tap by the water authority, etc. The line comes in approx 4' below grade with a hole punched thru the 9th course of block about 18" from the corner of the house. There are 2.5 courses of block above grade.

To this date I have not used the service (looks like the copper was a good investment!!). It was never turned on at the curb stop or the valve before the meter. The water authority people had told me that if they were to turn it on they wanted someone at home. As a precaution at the time, however I sweated a cap on the 1" line in the basement. We were and still are on well water.

The contractor did not patch the hole in the block or slip any kind of protective sleeve over the tube where it passes thru the foundation wall.

About 18 months after the installation there was an "accident" where when the farm field next to my house flooded with ice and snow and the ground was frozen for several inches; a torrent of water and soil/sand rushed into the basement once it found a path thru the frost and thru the hole surrounding the pipe (the hole is 3-4" diameter). I cleaned that up, about 20 5 gal buckets of dirt, threw it back in the hole outside.

Now 5 years later I want to connect to the line. I look into the hole from the basement and see a lot of rocks on the other side. I guess they were left behind when the sand washed in. Most were small and I removed away from the pipe from inside, but there is one big guy that looks like a piece of thick slate that is resting (very lightly) against the tubing. It might be something that was under a downspout to prevent erosion. I slipped a piece of protective plastic between the pipe and the rock and had a go at the rock with a big stone chisel and sledge but no luck in busting it up.

So I'm resigned to digging down on the outside and fixing it right. I started digging parallel to the foundation since there are large foundation plantings, (3 bushes) a few feet out from the house. Will this work or should I just rip out the bush and dig perpendicular to the house?

How long of a trench do you think I'll have to dig to get down to work at 4ft? Anything better to use than a long-handle pointed shovel; it is pure sand down there at 4ft except for any debris that washed in from the surface. Once I reach the pipe I plan to remove any rocks, slip a piece of 1.5" PVC over the copper for protection thru the block and then patch with mortar or some kind of redi patch. Do I have to patch from both sides and what is a good material to use? I imagine if I want to patch from the ouside I will have to do a lot of digging to get working space and reach the hole.

Any suggestions at this point would be appreciated.

PART 2: Do you think any water may have crept into the pipe over these 5-years from leakage past the curb stop and/or the valve before the meter. Is there some way I can tell if there is water in the pipe before I either un-sweat the cap or cut it off. I was thinking of putting a saddle valve near the end as a test just to see if there is any pressure inside. I looked at the valve in the meter vault and at the curb stop and I'm a little concerned because although they seem to be "closed" the valve handles are not exactly perpendicular to the piping. The tube extends about 18" into the basement, so I will probably want to shorten a little anyways. If there is water in the pipe how do I cope with this to sweat on an elbow or valve. Would the bread in the pipe trick work or do I need a special tool or fitting? I suppose with hindsight I should have got that valve on there right away when I knew everything was dry.

I had planned to start with an elbow, then a valve, then a draincock type of spigot then another valve and on to the house plumbing. I was going to flush the line thru a hose before connecting to the house cold water.

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Comments (3)

serviceplumberman
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
On the first point if you are going to dig on the outside of the house I would go ahead and sleeve the pipe and patch the holes while you are there. They make some quick setting cement patch that sets up quick and it comes in a gallon bucket. I always use it to patch holes like the one you are talking about. Im a little confused as to why the plumber busted a 3-4" hole for a 1" line, none the less it needs to be patched to avoid another "accident"
I would get straight in line with the copper buried below and dig down to it. Dig enough where you can work easily and make the hole bigger if your cramped for working space.
By code it needs to be sleeved, should have been done on installation.

Part 2: It being 5 years old water might have leaked by the valve or meter. When you get ready to do the work, take a cordless drill with a 1/4 bit chucked in it or smaller and drill the line. Will have the same effect as putting in a needle valve just a little cheaper. Drill it at the bottom and that will tell you if water is in the line or not. If there is water in the line and the meter is leaking by then there is a few ways to deal with it. I have never had luck with the bread trick.... The thing about the bread tick is you only have a limited amount of time before it disolves and water is back on you. They make jet sweats that go inside full port ball valves. Not sure if you can purchase them where you are at.... or if they even sell them to the general public. If not you could Shark-Bite a valve in. Since it is in the basement it is in an open space I presume and able to be worked on. Even though Shark-Bites are a mechanical fitting they work wonders if you cant get the water off of you long enough to solder. They make actual Shark-Bite valves here in Louisana... Might want to check on them. The only draw back is they are rather exspensive. If you can not find them a Shark-Bite male adapter and a threaded ball valve will work just as well.

Not sure why you would want 2 valves on the same line before you tie into the house cold water piping. Double valving seems like extra work with no added reward. Flushing the line would be a good thing to do as you said.

A question I have is did the plumber silver braze the lines inder the ground or did he use roll cooper?
hal_s
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
serviceplumberman: Thanks for replying. I don't know why they made such a big hole, but they basically knocked thru one compartment of the block with a sledge; probably just in a rush. I remember when running a 1.5" galvanized to an outbuilding thru the same foundation years ago we made a nice neat hole only slightly larger than the pipe. But anyway, it is what it is. I can slip the sleeve over from the inside, but the reason I think I should dig on the outside is to remove any rocks near the pipe and secondly to do the patch. If all I had to do was patch I probably could do a good enough job from the basement. The weather has been Louisiana humid here the last few days so my digging has been limited. To dig in-line I probably am going to have to remove a big shrub.

I was going to put 2 valves with a drain cock between them so that I could easily drain the house plumbing (for repairs or if I want to winterize the system some day). By having the two valves I could also have a source of cold water at the tap in the basement while any repairs were going on upstream. Maybe this isn't necessary, what do you think?

About your last question, they used rolled K soft copper tubing. I think that's what was required at the time. I believe when I peeked in the trench and meter vault I also saw some very heavy duty compression like connectors. Today they will let you use plastic pipe with mechanical brass connectors, but 15' at each end still has to be soft K copper.
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serviceplumberman
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Didnt think about the winterizing... We definitly dont have to do that down here. But yeah I would go ahead with that plan sounds like a good one.

I figured that is what they run. Good thats the best copper to run... Also the most exspensive these days.

It sounds like you have it down. Good luck to ya and let us know how it turns out!

Service Line Questions (long)

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serviceplumberman

hal_s
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Service Line Questions (long)

Comments (3)

serviceplumberman

hal_sOriginal Author

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hal_s
Original Author