Water Softener Sizing Help Please

13 years ago

Ok, I am back with some (hopefully) useful numbers and hope someone here can guide me down the right path.

Looking to replace a very old and broken water softener. My local municipailty ran a test on a water sample from my home and the results for hardness and iron were:

Hardness as CaCo3 is 261 ppm (approx 15 grains I believe)

and

Iron is 0.5 ppm

According to my water meter I use approximately 316 gallons (imperial) per day (1434 litres) , which jives with average usage numbers as we are a family of four. While not all the water goes through the softener, most does. I have the outdoor taps and the kitchen tap (cold) on non-softened water as the plants and I agree it tastes better.

So...with that information in hand..and a desire to purchase a quality unit that will last me many years....but keep salt and regeneration costs down over the long haul, what should I be looking at for bed volume and brand name. All help gratefully appreciated.

thanks in advance.

Darren

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Comments (10)

User
13 years ago
Hi Darren,

In order to correctly size a softener we'd need to know how many people in the home and # of bathrooms.

Any high water use appliances like a Jacuzzi or the like?
jagmanvdp
Original Author
13 years ago
Howdy:

Family of four...kids are roughly 10 and 8.
2 bathrooms
and no unusually high water demand appliances..regular dishwasher, high efficiency clothes washer....
over the life of the softener, the kids will become teenagers and probably become water hogs for some of those years...
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You're better off having your well water tested by an certified independent lab... they're not trying to sell you water treatment equipment. Plumbers are OK to install although I've seen plumbers plumb softeners in backwards and feed resin into the plumbing. Don't let them touch the control valve setup. If you're ordering online I suggest you assemble the softener yourself (if you're a DIYer). It's not hard and doesn't take long. you'll take more care than a plumber. The plumber will intersect the softener loop and make sure he/she plumbs the inny and outy correctly. You have to have a drain and AC power proximate to the softener location. Also some arrangement for the safety overflow on the brine tank. I recommend you have the plumber install a three ball valve bypass even though the softener will have it's own bypass. That way, if the softener's bypass requires service you'll still have (untreated) water to the house while waiting for repair or parts. When the softener you need is determined have the plumber look at the connections available for the softener so he/she can pick the one he/she likes for that install. Regarding SFR... how about checking at a hose bib off the pressure tank?
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One thing should be changed and two MUST be changed. Should change: Safety factor - 15% is all that is necessary, in my opinion. 20% is not a problem, however. MUST change: REGENERATE - I prefer 7 days, justalurker prefers 8. This is about resin life. As the softener is in service, the resin becomes compacted. The longer it goes between regens, the more compacted, the more damage that occurs. This number should not, in general, determine when your softener regenerates. The volume of water you use should do that - this number is a safety factor. In any case, 10 days is too long. BRINE FILL: This determines how much salt you use to regenerate your softener. One gallon of water will dissolve three pounds of salt. You want to regenerate with six pounds of salt, which means two gallons of water. Brine fill time controls, along with the BLFC (brine line flow control), determine how much water is placed in your brine tank and, therefore, how much salt you will use to regenerate your softener. There should be a sticker on the brine line at the softener valve. Generally, blue sticker is 0.25, black is 0.5, red is 1. If it is 0.5 gpm, set brine fill at 4 minutes. If 0.25, set at 8 minutes. It it is 1, set at 2 minutes.
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I wouldn't bother with a twin tank unless you really don't think you have 2 hours available weekly when you won't be using any water . You will spend a lot more than a single tank with no real benefit. Do you have any high-water-use fixtures, such as a multi-head shower, large bathtub or jet tub? If not, you would be okay with a 1 cuft softener now, which would be a bit small when your family increases to four. A 1.25 cuft softener would be ideal. That size can be difficult to find, so a 1.5 cuft will be fine, and most likely little to no difference in price. Since you have some manganese, you will need to regen with 8 lb salt/cuft of resin, which will make your softener a bit less salt-efficient, but it's necessary to ensure the manganese gets stripped from the resin during regen. Make certain you get the following: High quality American or German made resin. This will provide a tight size distribution for optimal flow within the resin Since you have WELL WATER: 8% crosslinked resin. Top basket. This serves two purposes. It sets up a proper water distribution during normal operation and prevents resin loss during backwash. Gravel underbed. The gravel underbed is there to set up proper flow patterns, improve backwash, keep the bottom basket in place, prevent basket failure, and prevent channeling. Many softener sales companies like to leave this out or sell softeners with a vortex system instead. Vortex systems weigh less than gravel so they cost less to ship. In addition, they are a more expensive item that adds profit for the softener salesperson, but provides no additional benefit to the homeowner . It simply adds another piece of equipment that can break. Fleck or Clack valves. These set the industry standard. Be aware that you will not be able to purchase Clack valves online. This is not a problem if you purchase locally. The valve should regen based on water usage, not time. Noryl bypass. Most softeners are available with either Noryl or stainless bypass valves. Both are good valves, but the noryl tends to be more reliable when not used for long periods of time. Install the softener with a three-valve bypass. This will make it so much easier if you ever need to remove the softener for repairs or wish to take it with you when you move. Use full-port, quarter-turn valves. Because of the manganese in your water you will need to take some additional steps to ensure your softener stays in good working order. Softening resin has a high affinity for manganese and doesn't like to release it during regen. Even using a higher salt dosage, some of the manganese remains in the resin and will slowly foul it from the inside out. You have several options: The easiest option may be to simply use Iron-Remover salt. Alternatively, you can use Super Iron Out. You may choose to layer this in with your salt. If you choose this option, use 1/4 C per 40 lb bag of salt. Super...
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I missed your post earlier. If you still need the information: Enter Master Programming Mode DF=Gal VT = St2b OR df2b CT=Fd NT=1 C=48 H=21 RS=SF SF=15 RC=0 (You are using a % reserve rather than a fixed reserve) CR=0 DO=8 RT=2:00 (or another convenient time when you won’t be using water for a couple of hours) Regeneration cycle step times BW1=12 BD=75 BW2=7 RR=12 BF=43 Ensure all days are set to ON, unless you have a specific day of the week when you do not want the softener to regen. CD doesn’t matter unless you set a day to OFF in step 14. FM You shouldn’t have to change this doesn’t matter Exit Master Programming Mode. Pour 7 gallons of water into the brine tank. Add salt. Reset your clock to actual time. At this point it’s a good idea to force the softener to step through the regen steps. There is no need to allow each step to complete. Just leave it in each step long enough to verify that the valve has changed position then move on to the next until you are back in service mode.
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User
13 years ago
Based on the info you provided a 2.0 cu ft softener setup with an efficient salt dose will be efficient and regenerate about once a week.

An industry standard softener based on a Fleck brand control valve will be cost effective, reliable, and easy to get parts for.

I'm not sure what distribution is like in CA but I can point you to a system on the web for reference and you can look around up there... click here

Check locally for an independent water treatment professional. They will cost a little more than buying on the net but include the install and setup and actually service what they sell.
jagmanvdp
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks:

I will look around and see if i can find someone that sells Fleck up here. I found one guy but all he carries is Kinetico.

If I can't find a dealer that supplies Fleck, do you have a second choice that you would feel comfortable purchasing?

And, if I find someone that gives me a choice of resins, is there a name/type I should try to get that will give me better salt usage (less salt usage) or longer resin life?

Thanks
User
13 years ago
More Fleck control valves are on softeners than all other brands added together worldwide. Fleck is the defacto industry standard with many decades of reliable service in the field. There is always someone almost everywhere who sells Fleck based softeners and services them.

For resin, either Purolite C100 or Sybron C249. Both are premium quality standard resin and will give reliable service. No need for anything exotic... just cost you more and gain you nothing. Avoid no name bulk resin from unknown distributors... it is the cheapest resin they could find.

If you have a local Kinetico dealer with a good reputation it's worth getting them to come out for a free quote. Kinetico softeners are twin resin tank units and are top tier but pricey. If you're looking for the best Kinetico is among them and will offset the higher cost with long and reliable service. Kinetico dealers often offer a more cost effective industry standard single resin tank softener as an alternative... ask them about that.
jagmanvdp
Original Author
13 years ago
Howdy:

Thanks for that. I have found one company locally (within 100 miles) that carry Fleck. When you live where I live, thats considered close for some things. Everyone else I have contacted thus far had never heard of Fleck. I have attached their URL.

http://www.aquatell.com/canada/water-softeners/fleck-water-softeners/fleck-5600-sxt-water-softener-canada-60000-grain

I wondered if I could be a royal pain and ask you to look at what they include with their system and see if that is reasonable (everything I would need?, sizes of brine tank and resin tank seem right? for 2 cubic feet of resin?)
Also, I wondered about salt usage. Is there a way to tell the Fleck head how much salt you wish to use I have red some of your other posts to people about capacity. You talk about pounds of salt per cubic foot of resin. I see that you talk about 6 pounds vs 15 pounds. Does the Fleck head allow you to set up the capacity and salt usage yourself?

Thanks in advance for your time. I truly appreciate it.

Darren
User
13 years ago
100 miles... that's just down the road a piece.

For a 2 cu ft softener I prefer the Fleck 7000SXT control (I linked to exactly that softener in my previous post) over the 5600SXT. The tank diameter limit of the 5600 is 12" and a 2 cu ft softener uses a 12x48 tank. I don't like pushing anything to the limit of it's specs.

Aquatell doesn't seem to list the Fleck 7000SXT but they can get it with no problem. They offer the Clack, which appears to be a good valve, but is the new kid on the block without the long enviable service history of Fleck valves.

Any of the Fleck SXT class controls allow custom settings for salt dose. In your circumstances you would set the control valve for 17 grains of (compensated) hardness, 4 lbs of salt / cu ft (4 lbs x 2 cu ft = 8 lbs salt total), and capacity at 30400 and that should regenerate every 7th or 8th day. You should set the calendar override at 8 days.

Those settings will get you 3800 grains removed / pound of salt which is pretty darned efficient.

Some softener sellers will disagree with me but you'll be smilin' at them for a long time.
jagmanvdp
Original Author
13 years ago
Hi:

Ordered the Fleck based system on the weekend. Should arrive on dodorstep later this week. Thanks for the advice....greatly appreciated.

Now to the job of installing the new softener!

THanks again

Darren
User
13 years ago
Ordered which system? Which control valve? With bypass?
jimbochap
13 years ago
Did you ever find out what system the OP ordered? and if it performed well?

Water Softener Sizing Help Please

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