Clearwave device for hard water & B-W water heater

16 years ago

We need to replace our water softener & water heater. The 30 yr old Culligan softener died quite a few years ago. The hard water buildup around the faucets and toilets is pretty bad, and our 30+ year Rheem water heater is starting to make clanging noise apparently due to scale build up.

The plumber has recommended a Bradford-White 40 gallon, self-cleaning natural gas water heater with a 6yr warr.(installed $925)

He also said we might want to try instead of the softener, an electronic device called Clearwave. I looked it up online and they're about $129, plus what ever the plumber charges to install it. Sounds a little gimmicky to me, but hey, what do i know! It supposedly sends electronic pulse thru the pipes. Here is it's description of what it does:

Clearwave is the most advanced computerized anti-scale device available today. Its computer chip is programmed to bombard water passing through your pipe with over 200 different electromagnetic low frequency pulses. These electromagnetic pulses have been scientifically proven to increase the electromotive attraction potential of the water to mineral salts. The result is that the mineral salts (mainly calcium bicarbonate) stays dissolved in the water instead of converting to insoluble calcium carbonate and attaching itself to the inside of pipes as scale. Existing scale in pipes, water heaters, toilets and faucets begin to soften and dissolve away, as well. Recommended for dishwashers, washing machines, coffee makers, and boilers.

Does anyone know if this is a legitimate device and had any experience with it? Or is it best to just get a water softener.

Also, is the water heater a good water heater? He said the upgrade to a 10 year warranty would be an additional $150, making it $1075 installed. Should I upgrade?

Any help appreciated,thanks,

dee

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Comments (5)

User
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Plumbers are fine for replacing water heaters and other plumbing regular/irregularities but there are VERY few who really know anything about water treatment. In most cases you can temper anything a plumber says regarding water treatment with a 40lb bag of softener salt.

To "soften" water is to remove calcium (among other things like iron) from the water and that is commonly done by one of two methods.

One method is ion exchange as done by a water softener. A water softener exchanges either sodium ions (if using NaCl) or potassium ions (if using KCl as a SALT SUBSTITUTE) for calcium (and other) ions in the hard water. That's it, no ifs, no ands, no buts, and no sales double talk. Simple chemistry and physics. Softening water is not black magic. It is physics and chemistry with a side of mechanics. No matter how hard sales people try (and want) to they can not violate the laws of physics or change the nature of chemical actions and reactions.

The other is by a filter and/or membrane technology or distillation, but no simple filter will remove calcium. You would need a reverse osmosis unit large enough to service your entire house. You would not want to pay for that big an RO nor pay for the service and routine maintenance it would require and RO water would be very aggressive in your plumbing and it would waste a lot of water.

NO magnet(ic) gizmo or electronic gizmo or "conditioner" will soften water but people waste their money on them EVERYDAY.

Check out this URL for one story http://www.nmsr.org/magnetic.htm and there are many more on the net if you Google.

Pick the right softener (not a box store brand), size it properly for your water conditions and usage and the SFR of your plumbing, and get a competent install and you should go 15-20 years minimum as you've already done with your Culligan.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is that water treatment begins with a water test so you know what needs to be treated or filtered out to get the quality water you want.

Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Make sure you call at least [b]one of the big dogs[/b] like Kinetico or Culligan for comparison and at least a [b]couple independent pros[/b].

Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated.

Ask lots of questions. Softening the entire house or just the water heater (bad idea)? Warranty, parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale.

Are all your treatment needs being addressed?

Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid.

Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware components with the costs and we'll give you our opinions.
dee__dee
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks, justalurker..Yeah, i thought it might be a gimmicky thing that my plumber fell for. He apparently isn't well informed on water softening, as he said he could install a softener if i went and bought it, he didn't buy them.
I had contacted the local Culligan and Aquasoft? companies in our area(central NJ)awhile back, but the cost was pretty high...over $1000 installed. I also felt that it was their own system. maybe it's better buy a system and and have it installed? but i have yet to find someone to do the install and i wouldn't know what to buy.
Any feedback on the hot water heater? price? should i upgrade to ten year... not sure if that's a different unit, or just extra $$ for the warranty and same unit.
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User
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Don't expect a new top quality water softener to cost what you paid for your Culligan 30 years ago.

Current softeners are more water and salt efficient but you'll be paying 2008 dollars for it.

I understand the Bradford Whites are first rate and a favorite of plumbers, and this is their field.

IMO, if you have hard water that is properly softened a water heater will last a long time. I have 26-30g hard water that is properly softened. The average life of a WH around here is 1.5-2.5 years... my A.O.Smith was installed in late 95.
dee__dee
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The Culligan came with the house, so this would be our first water softener purchase. Is 1000 about average in cost?
Also, I'm not sure, but I seem to remember the hardness of our water to be 10g... could that be right? Seems low compared to yours.. we have tons of white scale, yet 10g seems low... or is yours just very high?
thanks again,
dee.
User
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
More than one grain is considered hard... more than 10g is very hard... more than 20g is ludicrously hard... and so on.

It doesn't take much hardness to ruin a pot of coffee or leave deposits on everything.

$1000 for a correctly sized, installed, and setup first tier softener is about right.

You want to avoid pre-built softeners from the big box stores as they are built of lower quality materials, parts and service are more expensive, and they are not generally much less expensive than the softeners the water treatment pros sell.

If you follow what I recommended in my post you'll get a good handle on what is available locally and the average prices.

Do your homework and post what you find so we can help.

Clearwave device for hard water & B-W water heater

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Clearwave device for hard water & B-W water heater

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