skip to main content

Connection for copper closet bend to new toilet flange?

14 years ago

Hi, I'm a plumbing novice learning the hard way. I'm remodeling a bath and the new floor will not be as high as old mortar bed, so I need to lower the toilet flange. The existing plumbing appears to be 3" copper pipe with cast (copper, brass?) closet bend. Tried to heat the flange to remove it and best I was able to do is remove the (3-4") piece of vertical copper pipe at the solder joint where it comes up from the bend along with the flange still attached to it. What is best technique for replacing the vertical piece and the flange to connect with the existing (cast copper or brass) closet bend?

Thanks!

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (6)

jamesbodell
14 years ago
Convert to PVC. much easier (and cheaper) to work with. use a nylon sleeve to convert from 3" copper to 3" PVC.
jamesbodell
14 years ago
Correction: Firmco coupling, not "nylon sleeve". Any good hardware store will have what you need.
Related Discussions
Shopping for a new Toilet?
Q
Comments (17)
toby999: "Hope to hear more re NBS and Toto soon, Thanks everyone!" Plan ahead for the unpacking! Toilets are easily broken, so National Builders Supply packs them with polystyrene peanuts AND foamed-in plastic. Both support static electric charges, and you may find that simply extracting the toilet from the box will fully redecorate with tiny clingy pieces of plastic the ceiling, walls, and floor of the room where the box is when it is unpacked. Also, unless you have a particularly cozy relationship with the plumber who will install the toilet, take into consideration the extra hourly costs for unpacking the toilet from the box; you may be shocked how much time (and, therefore, dollars) it adds to the plumber's bill. You can save that by unpacking the toilet yourself before the plumber arrives at your door, but do not underestimate the time that you will need to do so. Finally, your regular garbage hauler almost certainly will not be happy to pick up the empty box (with adhering foam), and so you might want to research in advance where the packing materials can legally be disposed of in your city.
...See More
New toilet flange on old plumbing
Q
Comments (2)
PVC parts that are designed to fit into other PVC parts will not work. However PVC parts that are designed to fit into and work with cast iron parts do exist. http://www.oatey.com/products/drains-and-closet-flanges/closet-flanges/replacement-closet-flange http://www.oatey.com/products/drains-and-closet-flanges/closet-flanges/twist-n-set-replacement-closet-flange I used the first of the two products above recently, but I had to go to a plumbing supply store to get it, since Lowes didn't carry it. But I think there is a good chance that the existing flange will not be rusted out, and you may just need new bolts. Or if the flange is rusted to the point of failure or cracked a closet flange replacement ring may do the trick. http://www.oatey.com/products/drains-and-closet-flanges/closet-flanges/stainless-steel-closet-flange-replacement-ring
...See More
toilet flange higher than floor
Q
Comments (5)
That's true, I didn't consider that it might be cast iron. If's its in a basement, and the floor is easily replaced, it may be worthwhile to take up the flooring, open the slab and dig a little. Messy, labor intensive operation though. I guess the solution will depend on the location of the affected appliance and the tools/skill level of the homeowner. I think lazypups idea of using the sheeted PVC to make a shim in the shape of the bottom of the bowl is probably the simplest solution. You could probably easily fashion one yourself (plywood?) if you can't find the material locally.
...See More
Plumbing connections in concrete? Tile bathroom before or after tub?
Q
Comments (17)
LOL, I knew about soldered copper, but had never heard "sweat". I learned something new! Thanks. One plumber did not know they were hard copper and can't be bent. Not good... So, the connections/fittings will be soldered if copper, or they will be PEX. They will be under the concrete when lengthened. Both plumbers said that was not to code, but they didn't seem to care since no one will inspect inside the concrete. I just want the job done correctly, but it seems like it will not be to code. Thanks for your help. Now, I will know a little more about what the plumber should do. I have had 3 or 4 plumbers come here to do the work, then they change their minds I guess. They say they will call me, but I don't hear from them, and they don't respond to my calls. I found another plumber through my electrician, and he is supposed to come Tuesday. I can't believe this bathroom has been gutted since April, and nothing has been done yet. Southeastern Oklahoma used to have cold winters, but we rarely get past freezing now. Last ice storm was 2007.
...See More
lazypup
14 years ago
DANGER..Cut the copper pipe. DO NOT even attempt to disconnect copper DWV joints with a torch. Sewer gas is highly flammable and in high concentration it can be explosive.
Happy Customer
Original Author
14 years ago
Thank you for your considered and thoughtful responses! As far as explosive sewer gas, appreciate the warning but, as stated, already torched the vertical "tailpiece" and removed it.

With respect to fernco fittings, I looked at these and found eiher a no-hub "sleeve" type connection or a "donut" which fits inside existing pipe. Doesn't seem the no-hub sleeve would provide the stability you would want and, at any rate, it does not fit over the coupling (hub) on the closet bend. The donut is designed for cast-iron pipe and will not fit in 3" coopper hub.

Box-store people had no idea how to fix this as they are familiar only with cast-iron or PVC setups.

I bought a new copper flange and was lucky enough to bump into a plumber at the supply house who gave me a few inches of 3" copper (10' of 3" is super expensive!). I resoldered this new "tailpiece" into the existing closet bend with my little propane torch (sorry again about torch and sewer gas, but too late). Hoping and praying that this joint holds up. Now I need to attach new copper flange - now you've got me worried about soldering it on.

Hope anyone else who has to deal with refitting to copper closet bend can benefit from your comments.
jamesbodell
14 years ago
If you go to a plumbing supply house they have firmco like couplers that have a metal band around the rubber to give it added strength. They may be called "church" fittings but I may be mistaken. As for support, the toilet flange should be bolted to the floor and should not carry any weight. The toilet is bolted to the flange which is bolted to the floor (toiler is bolted to floor, too). You should not rely on the soil pipe to hold anything in place.

As for the fitting itself, you need a 3" cast to 3" copper fitting. The PVC mimics the cast in OD. The ID is 3", but the OD are different and must be taken into account with the fitting.

Seriously, one DIYer to another, convert to PVC, its cheaper, safer and easier to maintain. Return the brass fitting and get a PVCS one at 1/4 the cost. Plus, no soldering.
undun
9 years ago
Nothandy, I know that this thread is from 2010 and that you may not check GardenWeb now, but if you do, could you post a follow up as to what you finally did and if you were successful (I assume that you were). I am in the EXACT same boat - coupler/tailpiece came off still firmly attached to flange. Did you remove the old tailpiece by using your torch and then reuse the existing flange?

Thank you.

Related Stories

ECLECTIC HOMES Houzz Tour: Historic Home Connects With Its Past

This Sydney family home survived a series of makeovers before finding its perfect match

KITCHEN DESIGN Automation Meets Innovation in the Newest Kitchen and Bath Products

By Ventana Construction LLC

Home features from closets to toilets are going touchless, remote controlled and more accessible than ever. See for yourself

BATHROOM DESIGN How to Install a Toilet in an Hour

By Innovative Design Build

Putting a new commode in a bathroom or powder room yourself saves plumber fees, and it's less scary than you might expect

BATHROOM WORKBOOK Bathroom Workbook: 13 Elements of Asian Style

By Mitchell Parker

Create a soothing, spa-like bath with simple materials and a deep connection to nature

HOUZZ TOURS Houzz Tour: Major Changes Open Up a Seattle Waterfront Home

By Mitchell Parker

Taken down to the shell, this Tudor-Craftsman blend now maximizes island views, flow and outdoor connections

ECLECTIC HOMES Houzz Tour: Design Harmony for an Animal Rescue Ranch

By Becky Harris

Once dark and slapped together, this Malibu home now has balance and connection while keeping its jeans-and-boots comfort

BATHROOM DESIGN See the Clever Tricks That Opened Up This Master Bathroom

By Mitchell Parker

A recessed toilet paper holder and cabinets, diagonal large-format tiles, frameless glass and more helped maximize every inch of the space

ORGANIZING Smart Solutions for Clothes Closets

By Laura Gaskill

The Hardworking Home: Explore these ways to store your clothes, shoes and accessories to make the most of your space

BATHROOM DESIGN Houzzers Say: Dream Features for the Bath and Closet

By Becky Harris

Universal design, clever storage and convenience top the list of dream-house necessities

BATHROOM DESIGN Water Damage Spawns a Space-Saving Bathroom Remodel

By Mitchell Parker

A game of inches saved this small New York City bathroom from becoming too cramped and limited

Sponsored

More Discussions

Looking for feedback on Grohe & Moen faucets

15

Recommendations for under counter drinking water purification system?

15

Changing shower fixtures

2

Shower faucet system

3

under mount sinks -faucet types

1