Betsy,
Sorry but I AM CORRECT.

My friend is dealing with a feral cat population in her neighborhood right now. She trapped a few and paid for their spays. She is not wealthy. Her neighbors feed the cats, and the entire neighborhood SMELLS. Granted the homes are built on a 1/3 of an acre, but still, the point is that the cat population grows exponentially. The neighbors think they are just feeding the cute kitties.

She cannot believe their ignorance. She's giving up, because she alone cannot control the problem. She has gone around the neighborhood and trapped several kittens, and gave them to the rescue places.
The town doesn't have the Spay and Release in their budget!

So don't tell me I'm exaggerating.
It's not the ferals fault. It IS the peoples who dump cats like trash and the poor things are left to starve. That is why I'm suggesting getting the neighbors together and spaying them. If they get them all spayed they can feed them without the worries of multipying. ONE person cannot do it all.

Gee Betsy, you're a peach. Bless your little heart...

We plan on having a talk with the feral-feeding neighbors and see if they're willing to help us trap them and chip in for spaying/neutering if necessary. (That's assuming we can catch EVERY cat, which I'm not even sure is possible.) But all it takes is one female we can't catch, she gets bred again, has another litter, her babies get bred and have more litters, etc., etc.

See Betsy, our problem isn't necessarily with the cats-- we LIKE cats, we have two of our own-- but unspayed ferals make more ferals, which make more ferals, which make more ferals. It's what they do. They're very good at it. And as long as the neighbors keep putting food out and ooohhing and aaahhing over all the cute kitties that no one can touch, much less spay/neuter/worm/vaccinate, the problem Only. Gets. Worse.

Should our neighbors not want to help trap them, and/or don't want to help pay to spay/neuter them (assuming our town doesn't have a TNR policy, which I still need to check into), I'm not above trapping them and releasing them far, far away. I'd just love to know if there's a secret for drilling sense into people that they're not doing the world a favor by feeding stray cats.

Brutuses....in many instances there is no one else....I have been having a feral problem in my neighborhood...I called every agency I could find and no one would take care of the problem. Even the rescues were no help. I agree CN should not take them and dump them somewhere else....its just creating problems for someone else and if feeders keep feeding more feral will just move right on in. The problem as always is with humans. The humans who refuse to fix their pets, dump their "pets", and in my case the humans who feed the strays. It is no pleasure smelling cat pee when you walk down the block, it is also no pleasure fighting a losing battle with fleas because the humans who feed do little else.

I understand the frustration of unfixed feral cats, but I don't understand why people don't make the effort to TNR rather than their first thought being either to dump them somewhere else or to send them to die. I know not everyone has the resources or capabilities and I better than anyone, would rather see an animal euthanized than in the street to suffer and die a horrible death.

I get upset when I hear people, who claim to be humane, say they don't care if the animal lives or dies. I'd rather they just keep that ugliness to themselves and not share it.

You said if they keep feeding ferals, more will move right on in. The fact is if you remove all ferals you are garaunteed more will move on in. The way to manage feral cats is to TNR. Removing them is only a death sentence for those you removed, it doesn't solve the problem.

I have feral cat colonies I have managed for many years. Now they aren't even colonies because the cats have died off over the last 15 years. When an area is populated with spayed/neutered cats, no new cats will move in because cats are very territorial. As time goes on, the cats will die off. Right now I have 3 spots where I care for cats and there are only 2 cats at each spot. A stray will come by now and then, but never to stay. That's why there are organizations like Alley Cat Allies, to educate people about the humane way of dealing with feral cats. Sadly a lot of those feral cats were once soneone's pet, but no one stops to think about that. People make statements such as "I love animals" or "I love cats" and in the next breath they speak of how ferals need to GO and if that means killing them, so what!!

There are ways to manage feral colonies and all one has to do is go to the net and search under that topic and get all the answers they need. That is if they want to try to solve the problem in an effective and humane way.

Contact Alley Cat Alliess and see if they know of any rescuers in your area. This is an organization whose goal is to educate people and teach them how they can help feral cats without resorting to killing them. They have a huge network of people all over the country and may be able to help anyone who needs help.

I agree. Ferals are just cats without a home thru no fault of their own. A few of my most precious cats were ferals I rescued. It's the human who dumps them and not the cats' fault. It would be horrible to trap and dump them somewhere to starve to death. I feel sorry for your elderly neighbors who can't have cats, but are getting great enjoyment from these cats. I have five indoor cats, and I am sitting a few feet away from a litter box (hidden under a farm table) right now and have five in the basement too. If you came into my house , you would not know there were any cats living here so I find it hard to believe that in the great outdoors, the smell is so bad. We have many TNR groups here and I can't imagine any place that doesn't have at least one. Then your neighbors could continue to take care of these cats, but there would be no kittens and gradually the colony would die off..

Lily I do not know why cats pee smells in the outdoors....I've heard its because they spray everywhere when not fixed. Not sure as I have never owned cats. But come to think of it my dog pees outside in my yard and it never smells. I find that quite curious. But unfortunately the proof is right on my block. I know its cat pee because you can see the cats lounging around and pee has a particular smell. I have never advocated killing the cats and would not do so myself otherwise the problem would have been an easy solve. As for why I don't do TNR myself...I honestly don't have the time, on my time off I think my dog and DH deserve my attention. I have no time to troll around the neighborhood and try to catch cats. There are TNR groups but they want to charge me between 25 to 75 dollars to catch the cats. Honestly I would rather just not walk down that side of the street and continue to chase them out of my yard...eventually they will learn where they are not welcome. I was researching feral cats in Florida when I was trying to figure out how to deal with the problem....the Florida fish and wildlife commission is for euthanizing them....but just as I have no time to TNR I have even less time to trap an animal only to see it get killed. And although the euthanizing would help my situation much more than TNR I can't bring myself to do it.

I shudder every time I read "nasty ferals let kill them all" coming from "pet lovers"...Like many pointed out before, feral cats are no different - and to me more dear than - the house cats so many of us love. They are homeless unfortunate creatures, on the streets at no fault of their own

A lot of people will "advice" without ever having dealt with feral cats and TNR..they will tell you the approach does not work...because they think so, because they feel so, and so on

There is a wealth of info online about TNR, the pros AND cons, to give you a better picture

ASPCA Feral Cats FAQ

LA Department of Animal Services and TNR

If you want more information or have specific questions, please feel free to email me...I have been chased off before for talking about TNR and defending ferals, I wont be contributing beyond this to the discussion :) Do email me if you have questions
olyagrove AT gmail

IMO, a feral cat is no different that a feral dog, both animals should be treated the same way.

If it was just a question of 2 or 3 stray cats hanging around and being fed by my neighbors, I wouldn't care-- fine, feed them, name them, pretend they're yours, whatever. My issue is that these cats aren't fixed, and are currently making MORE cats.

And frankly, why should WE be responsible for paying to have them trapped/spayed/neutered?! We only own as many pets as we can afford to keep, which means we already spend in excess of $1500/year just on ROUTINE care for our dog, two cats, and a horse. In my thinking, if someone loves these ferals so much that they see them as their own pets, then they should be willing to pony up the $$$ to care for them as if they WERE their own pets... it's not just as simple as giving them table scraps; if you want a pet, it costs money.

One of our neighbors-- NOT one of the feral-feeders-- told us how bad the feral problem had gotten here about 10 years ago, long before we lived here; another nearby resident (not one of the current ones) was feeding them and at one point our neighbor counted 30 (THIRTY!) cats coming and going.

I have no idea what happened to them then; we weren't living here at the time. But it appears to be heading that direction again.

We are just giving suggestions, and I do not think anyone is implying you have to do anything..Do as much as you care to, as these are homeless cats

This might be useful info to run by your neighbors - maybe they did not know anything about it and will be interested in trying it

You can certainly have a trapper come out and euth all...only to have the area re-populate to current capacity within about a year or two..

There is no ideal solution: ideally, every human and every animal should have a home

Here a few resources you can try - maybe pass the info to the neighbors? Like you said, if they care, they should be willing to do something

Good luck

PA resources 1

PA resources 2

Olya I knew you couldn't keep out if this conversation :-)

I suggested discretely trapping and taking them to animal control.

If you have a 0.22, that works well, its just not as discrete.

Whoa Nelly there cnvh. You asked a group of animal lovers what you should do.

Here in MA there are experience groups (of course not nearly enough) that work to care for feral colonies. They not only feed but handle the TNR, usually clipping a corner of the ear so they can tell who needs to be fixed. I though you might be able to go on Petfinder and find an organization near you that can help. You could donate to help the all volunteer organization or not.

If they were in my backyard, I'd probably feed too, but thats me. Some jerk probably let his unfixed, unvaccinated cat out and moved away. That poor cat joined a colony not knowing where else to go. The organization can usually tell if its truly feral and if he's not they try to resocialize him and put him up for adoption. They also try to catch a new litter early so the kittens have a chance at socializing before they become feral.

If you do nothing, the 30 will become much more. Heck it's spring time. You could have a hundred by now.

Olya I knew you couldn't keep out if this conversation :-)
Yup , you knew it :]

cnvh, you do not have to accept responsibility for these cats. I would only like to see you make the best effort to find them help instead of having them picked up to be killed. You have not talked to anyone, including the people feeding the cats, to find out what they are willing or not willing to do to help these cats. You haven't tried to contact any TNR advocates such as Alley Cat Allies.

People assume feral cat feeders are the bad guys. They are not. Some just do not realize the harm in feeding and not fixing.

I only want people to do the humane thing and not make statements saying they don't care if the cats are euthanized or considering dumping them as an option. That is so ugly and inhumane. They are God's creatures. It is not their fault, but they are the ones who suffer the consequences of humans inhumanity.

Good luck with finding help with these ferals and finding peace of mind for yourself. I know you're not a bad person, but please do not let your frustration guide you to take action that is the most harmful and not the most helpful to these cats and the people who care about them.

Having lived in Australia many years, I've seen first-hand the damage feral cats have done. I am all in favour of adoption but once they've gone a few generations they are far from house cats, some are almost the size of bobcats.

It's a passionate issue. My bil lets his domestic cat kill birds, he thinks it's 'natural' except that cats that size are introduced, and the natural predators here like cougars and coyotes might not bother with them. Since she does roam, she will probably end up being taken by a coyote.

Dogs of course need to be controlled too but for the most part will stay in a well-fenced yard.

I am all in favour of humanely culling feral cats if all else fails, we are responsible for them being there in the first place, by releasing them (how irresponsible) not fixing their cats, and by feeding strays.

If you are on acreage I don't know what the laws are regarding shooting but that ought to be a last resort since it'd upset the neighbours, contacting the city or proper authority ought to be the first step but I agree, you can't let it go- they will continue to breed.

I agree you could talk to the feeders but I doubt you will convert them, and you will be giving them a clue as to who to 'blame' when the cats start disappearing.

You could anonymously mail some literature to them about the issues of feral cats, or speak to the building manager.

It no doubt is a public health issue. Consider also the issue of rabies if it's a problem in the area.

Here in the US we promote TNR not shooting of cats.

Feral cats have never been a public health problem in the US either.

I wouldn't be allowed to shoot them even if I wanted to-- that sort of thing is prohibited in our neighborhood. (We have an acre, and we're probably the largest lot in town; there are other houses close by in every direction. Not really conducive to any sort of gunfire!!)

Here in the US we promote TNR not shooting of cats.
You don't speak for the the entire US.

Actually, much of the US promotes the humane euthanization of feral animals. Especially for alien predators that have not evolved with the native ecosystems.

The promotion of TNR is often considered misguided by biologists, veterinarians, and the US fish and wildlife Service.

A feral cat should be treated no differently than a feral dog or a feral pig. It should be trapped and either re-homed to a rescue. If that is not available, then they should be humanely euthanized.

Joe, I'm sorry you don't have your facts straight about what should happen to feral cats. For one thing not all cats who are labeled "feral" are actually feral. They were once someone's pet. Can anyone who has a pet imagine having their pet get out and have Joe come along and think it needs to be euthanized just because it's labeled feral?

Do you work for PETA, you have their philosophy which is very ignorant and inhumane when it comes to feral cats.

The TNR program has proven successful and you come along and say it isn't. Sorry, but millions of cats and thousands of people know it works.

It's a futile statement to say a feral pig, dog and cat are similar animals. These 3 animals are not similar in any way except they don't have a permanent home where they are confined.

Let me make this clear to you since you are uneducated about feral cats. Feral cats, once spayed/neutered, will settle into one location and not bother anyone. Most of the time humans don't even know they are there. I have ferals I've been taking care of for 15 years. They live in one area and have never ventured more than 50 feet of where I serve them their food. They bother no one. Why do you think they need to die? Oh, yea, they are like dogs and pigs, I forgot.

On the other hand you spay/neuter a dog and it will not keep it from straying all over the neighborhood, knocking over garbage cans, getting in fights, etc. Dogs are also not capable of finding shelter like a cat is so it cannot survive long on the street before it is killed by disease or cars. That's why there is not a TNR program for dogs.

As for pigs, well I don't know any large modern city that has pigs running around, but if I find one I'll let you know. By the way, a wild boar is very dangerous and to date I haven't found a spayed/neutered feral cat who is capable of attacking and killing a human being or even wants to.

I am very educated about feral cats.

Its not about protecting human beings, its about protecting birds, rodents, and reptiles. If you really cared about animals, and not just cats, you would see that you are blinded by cuteness.

We were all blinded by fairy tales that taught us ugly was evil and beauty was good. Cats are beautiful animals. Feral Cats are alien predators that are decimating our natural fauna and disrupting ecosystems.

Feral vaccination programs and feeding programs give them even more of an ecological advantage over natural systems that develop checks and balances to populations.

Remember the bell curve for populations when you were in school...

brutuses....unfortunately joe is correct...in Florida the fish and wildlife service is also against TNR.

http://www.law.ufl.edu/conservation/pdf/feralcat.pdf

http://cats.about.com/cs/advocacy/a/FLkillingcats.htm

You need to stay current on your facts. In the link below, click on the Cat Coalition of Florida in the left column and read the updates on this.

TNR works and it's proven over and over again around this country and Europe. Because of a few cat haters who can't stand the fact that feral or any cat actually exsist, doesn't change the reality that TNR works at controlling the feral cat population. Killing them does not and that's also been proven over and over again. Killing animals should never be the solution when there are other alternatives. Some of us will always see that as inhumane.

Here is a link that might be useful: link

First of all Brutus. I don't hate cats. In fact I LOVE cats. My old josie the pussy cat would have been fifteen last week if she hadnt' developed a brain tumor.

But my love of cats, doesn't blind me to the reality of the harm that cat colonies are doing to our native animals...

My suggestion is always to trap and rescue first. IF the cat can't be re-homed, then it should be humanely euthanized. Its inhumane to leave domesticated ferals to fend for themselves in the wild. Its even more inhumane for the ecosystems that the cats kill while roaming wild.

I don't know why you keep saying things that are inaccurate about feral cats. You are not educated about feral cats. As far as them messing up the ecosystem, well that's not so. It's been proven. None are left to fend for themselves. Again, all you have to do is read the literature available to get the truth, if you want it.

You are just hell bent on killing ferals so I'm referring you to experts who can better explain why that is not the answer. Here is a link to Alley Cat Allies. You can also go to ASPCA and hundreds of other sites to learn the truth about feral cats or you can continue to advocate killing them.

I have to run because 2 of my ferals (by your definition), but were actually dumped by their previous owner, are waiting for me to go feed them breakfast. Then they can go back to rest for the day in their totally safe and secluded home under a nice raised building. They don't stray further than the lot where they live and eat. The people who own the building are glad they are there to keep mice and other creepy things away. The cats have lots of food, water and great shelter from the elements.

These 2 cats are considered feral by your definition because they are not living in someone's home. Tell me again, what would killing these 2 cats accomplish? What eco system would be saved if these 2 cats died? What health risk are they posing?

Another untruth is that all ferals would love to live in a home with a human. If you could ask most true adult ferals where they would prefer to live, in a home or on the street, most would opt for the street. So taking them into a home and forcing them to live as a pet, is nothing short of cruel. There's literature on this subject also if you're interested in reading it.

Talk to you later.

Here is a link that might be useful: allley cat allies

But Brutus, I could just as easily say that you are uninformed about feral cats as well.

And I could drag out study after study that documents the damage feral cats are doing to native birds, native mammals and native reptiles. I can cite several studies where TNR was shown to have no impact on the feral cat population, and in fact a few studies have shown the colonies increase in size due to increased longevity of the cats in the colony.

I would be willing to say that a TNR colony in a heavily urbanized area probably does have minimal impact on natural ecosystems, considering there is nothing left of the ecosystem in those areas. BUt please TNR advocates, please consider the ecology and geographic location before you claim that TNR is right for everyone. That simply isn't true.

The TNR advocates often compare their impacts to no euthanization... And certainly TNR is better than "nothing"... however you can only trap so many cats, whether you are euthanizing or neutering... so both methods have significant limitations. And most people do not have access to an adequately funded TNR program and in rural areas, its just not appropriate.

Here is a link that might be useful: ONe of many studies....

I know cat behavior. I've managed many feral cat colonies and cared for over 200 cats during that time. My experience has shown that once spayed/neutered cats are established at a location, no new cats will come in. Cats are very territorial and unlike dogs, not so welcoming to others of their species, especially if they are unspayed or unneutered. So no one who has ever managed a feral colony that is spayed/neutered, will believe any study that says the numbers increase. It just doesn't happen. I'm not sure who or what they were studying however.

What I find interesting is people who have never had a feral cat colony come up with so many "studies" to say what is fact. If they studied cat behavior as I have for the last 25 years, they'd stop making up all these so called "studies." If you have personal experience with feral cats you know those studies aren't worth the paper they are written on.

I do not advocate that people feed and care for ferals if they are not going to have them spayed or neutered. I don't think that is a prudent thing to do for the animal's welfare in the long run. If you can't control the cat from reproducing then you shouldn't be keeping it healthy to keep having litter after litter. To me that is far more cruel than having it euthanized.

It's too bad that people in the US don't have the same compassion for animals as the people in Italy. See link.

Instead of these "people" in the US conducting studies trying to prove how bad ferals are and why death is the best thing for a stray, why aren't they trying to find ways to help them instead? That's just wrong in any language.

Here is a link that might be useful: cats of Rome

But see Brutus, I have compassion for animals.

If you are maintaining a cat colony then you are responsible for the deaths of literally thousands (and if you've been doing it for twenty year, maybe even millions) of native birds, native reptiles, native mammals (who haven't evolved with non-native cats, so they have no natural defenses against them). Believe me, I have compassion for animals.

I think you have compassion, its just misguided..

I think you have compassion, its just misguided.
Gee...thanks. Lets instead kill literally thousands of cats, and then wait for them to repopulate (thanks to your fellow humans, who will abandon more unfixed cats and who will also destroy native species' habitat and spray everything with herbicide while they are at it)
and then, come back and do it again, kill literally thousands of cats a few years later
In this case, you will be responsible, literally

I have 5 cats on my property, that cannot be adopted out (I foster and adopt out those who can be), ear notched cats. With cat food outside, no new cats are coming in, because the existing cats will not others to join
You are misguided on how many birds cats can catch in a year, when they are fixed and well fed(aka, lazier and a chubbier)

I do TNR in the city, in college apartments - again, thanks to your fellow humans, who played with kitties and left them behind. Sorry, no much native wildlife there (because it has been destroyed to build there)

If you want to make a huge difference, go after people who dump cats - that would be the root of the problem.
TNR or not, people will continue discarding their animals.. We are trying to mend the problem humanely.

I took 11 cats to HSTB yesterday, for Spay/Neuter. 2 were pregant, 8 out of 11 were females. While trapping, we found 4 kittens - who are young to be socialized and adopted. Adopted to people who love cats, but might hate ferals, just as much as you do - and will never make a connection between a lucky kitten who got a saved and his unfortunate mother.

It is interesting how people claim they love nature and animals, yet have this "scapegoat" to loathe. No different from saying that you love humanity and people, but they must not be homeless - and if homeless and unfortunate, the society should institute a program to get rid of them

But then, why do I bother explaining - I will go on doing what I do, and you have made up your mind and will do a whole lot of nothing. Good luck.

I can tell that you aren't thinking clearly when you use words like "loathe" or "compassion"...

I don't loathe cats. I love cats. I don't scape goat cats. We agree that its people that are the problem. The cats lose no matter what.

I agree with PETA position on feral cats. Unless you can protect the cats from cars, dogs, and other diseases, its simply inhumane to trap a cat and then let it roam free again. Its more humane to euthanize a feral domestic animal than to let live on the streets.

Its not something that we will ever agree on, so please stop pretending that there isn't a dark side to what you are doing.

Its not something that we will ever agree on, so please stop pretending that there isn't a dark side to what you are doin

Pretending? Dark side?
Let's see...I primarily foster, currently 17 kittens, and when they are ready, they go for adoption at the local no kill shelter...I do TNR - I bring the cats to the same local shelter, since we have a Feral Cat Program the shelter runs...Very dark
I guess it is "darker" than letting the same cat living on the same dumpster unaltered and unvaccinated. Or killing it and letting another feral find the same dumpster - due to the fact that that dumpster had a "carrying capacity" and will be appealing for another feral to move in
I adopted a few I trapped that were friendly..Like Bruno, a semi feral cat, living on the streets with a broken leg. No one could care less, and how knows how long he lived like that, with a shattered bone. Although semi feral, I was not going to leave him out on the streets after the amputation surgery... {{gwi:2017710}}From Bruno living the life

Unless you can protect the cats from cars, dogs, and other diseases, its simply inhumane to trap a cat and then let it roam free again.
Same should be true for any animal living wild. Cant protect every creature from diseases, cars, dogs and humans.

An old lady Anna fed cats until it was out of control, cats everywhere, a stench of male urine and kittens. I fixed, gosh, 20 cats, maybe on that street. You are lucky to see 3-5 now, as they no longer congregate to mate or fight. Neighbors love it. Oh yeah, before someone asked me to help, neighbors called Animal Services repeatedly...AS does not have the resources and the staff to go out and trap feral cats at night...
Orangie, a feral cat living in one of the colonies (Anna's colony, the lady since passed away). Very mellow boy. He, like you, deserves a lifetime. {{gwi:2017711}}From Anna's cats

If the only solution you deem possible is trapping and taking the cat to get euth at AS (and Hillsborough County AS do endorse TNR; they seem like that over euthanizing them by hundreds a day), I would rather stop doing anything at all

Of course, we can do what home country does (Russia)..incidentally, I am going there this weekend, and hate to witness it all over again. Every year, it is a different set of homeless cat. And every year, the government is doing a "cleansing" program - come out, euth on the street, collect and take away. Does not seem to work - cats are still fighting, males are still spraying, kittens are running around. Till the next wave of "cleansing". I have witnessed it to never believe in this madness again.

In case you need to have the final word, please go on. But you are correct, I do not think we are going to have agreement.

And if by the "dark side" you mean, the approach is not perfect...Then, no I do not need to pretend : it is not a perfect solution

Ideally, every cat deserves a lifetime and every cat deserves a home.

And I am working on that, harder than you can imagine. The objective is to find home and to socialize. But I am not going to kill off those that are unfortunate to be too old for socializing (for a feral kitten, the cut off is about 12 wks old of age, if that kitten did not have any human contact)

Ideally, we wont have people destroying habitats through their ignorance and disposing off their pets as a matter of convenience. That would be ideal.

Joe you claim to love animals, yet you advocate killing them. You have the nerve to tell me my compassion is misguided. I think you better look in the mirror.

Feral cats are NOT responsible for killing thousands of birds, etc. How dare you tell me I'm responsible for that. In 25 years I've seen 3 of my feral cats with something other than cat food in their mouth and they were mice. For the most part people are very happy to not have mice or rats in or around their home or business. Down here in N.O. if it weren't for the ferals killing the mice and rats they'd be walking away with us. We are surrounded by water, the river being one of the main bodies of water. The lake the other. You ever see a river rat? They are bigger than cats? LOL So if my ferals killed a hundred mice and rats in the 20 years I've cared for them, God bless them for doing a good job.

Right now it's dragon fly season. Thousands invade my yard and what do my silly cats do, play with them, never trying to kill any. They are afraid of roaches and lizards too.

One of my outside cats brought in a hampster one day. I suppose it belonged to a neighbor. Anyway, Lucky brought it in, still alive, placed it at my feet and walked away. Hammie the hampster than became our pet also. Another day he brought in a field mouse. However, the mouse got away and was loose in my house. Eight cats couldn't catch it. LOL I finally found the little thing hiding in a vase. I brought it to a safe place and let it go.

Not all cats are killers. My sister has a dog who will kill and eat lizards by the dozen. Should be kill her dog too?

FYI, my pet cats in my yard kill an average of a bird a year. Do you think I should kill them?

Well I'm going to tell my ferals that I have to kill them because you and PETA said they were dangerous and unhappy. If that wasn't so inhumane and horrible it would be funny.

As Oly said, spayed/neutered cats are too plumb and too lazy to care about killing anything.

Thank you oly, I needed the support. I'm worn out because I'll never convince a cat hater that ferals do matter and that they play an important role in our ecology.

Futhermore, I have ferals out there that are 12 + years old. No dog, cars, disease got them, yet you say they should have been killed. Does that make sense? They are living the good life, not bothering anyone, yet you think they should die. There is no logic in PETA's argument. Then again there is no logic in most of what PETA does. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Where does killing cats who happen to be stray fit in to that ethical treatment?

If I followed PETA's and your thought process I would have literally killed hundreds of stray cats who just happen to find themselves homeless and for the life of me I cannot figure out why you think that is humane. When it's proven time and time again that managed feral colonies are very healthy and happy and do not eradicate the bird, lizard, or bug population.

This reminds me of another couple of guys I feed at this one spot. The doves come down to eat the dry cat food and my big lazy cats just sit there and watch them. My DH and I had a good laugh the other afternoon watching these supposed "bird killers" at work. They are not the killers you say they are. Sorry to disappoint you.

I think Albert Schweitzer said it best when he wrote,

"Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace"

...I was thinking..you know..If the official policy in the US is "trap and kill", why are some upset with TNR?
Lets see...We are not adding to the problem. No one is to say the cat I TNRed wont be trapped and killed at Animal Services..What harm did I and the fellow volunteers do by spending my money and time to trap the cat, fix it and treat it for whatever problems it has, and try to provide a better life than that poor thing is living? What is the damage? It is patching the problem, but by TNR, I did not make it worse So even if you do not believe (not you, JP, just you in general) in the effectiveness of TNR, why be so angry at us?! I am not going to be judge and executioner , but I am willing to provide a solution

Just wondering. TNR people do not add a bit to the problem. I believe in prevention, but not at the expense of the living things....

First of all, I am not angry.

And again you and Brutus both talk about living things... that is my concern also...

I say you are misguided, because you have concerned yourself with one type of living thing.

"Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace"

Notice the quote says "ALL" living things and not just Cats.

You are fooling yourself if you think the cats are only killing mice. What about the mice, aren't they living things? What about the birds, the rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks? I don't blame the cats, I blame the people for letting cats roam.

My biggest point, is that is certainly is about the living things. When we look at the numbers, if humanely euthanizing one feral cat saves hundreds of other lives.

Wisconsin Study: Researchers at the University of Wisconsin coupled their four-year cat predation study with data from other studies, and predicted a range of values for the number of birds killed each year in the state. By estimating the number of free-ranging cats in rural areas, the number of kills per cat, and the proportion of birds killed, the researchers calculated that rural free-roaming cats kill at least 7.8 million and perhaps as many as 217 million birds a year in Wisconsin. They estimated that in some parts of the state, free-roaming cat densities reach 114 cats per square mile, outnumbering all similar-sized native predators. (Coleman, J.S. and S.A. Temple. 1995. How many birds do cats kill? Wildlife Control Technology:44.)

Virginia Study: Virginia researchers compared free-roaming domestic pet cats in a rural setting and a more urban one. A total of 27 native species (eight birds, two amphibians, nine reptiles, and eight mammals, including the star-nosed mole, a species of special concern) were captured by a single rural cat. Four urban cats captured 21 native species (six birds, seven reptiles, and eight mammals). Between January and November 1990 each cat caught, on average, 26 native individuals in the urban area, and 83 in the rural area. The study did not count prey killed and completely consumed, prey killed and left elsewhere, or non-native prey. (Mitchell, J. and R.A. Beck. 1992. Free-ranging domestic cat predation on native vertebrates in rural and urban Virginia. Virginia Journal of Science 43:197-206.)

Cats at Bird Feeder Study: A continent-wide survey of 5,500 homes with bird feeders during the winter of 1989-90 showed that the domestic cat was a significant predator of birds at feeders. Species killed by cats at bird feeders included Dark-eyed Junco, Pine Siskin, Northern Cardinal, and American Goldfinch. (Dunn, E.H. and D.L. Tessaglia. 1994. Predation of birds at feeders in winter. Journal of Field Ornithology 65:8-16.)

I'd like to know how the heck those studies are conducted. It's garbage. I don't know of any feral or yard cat who has wiped out a species of animal.

You mention moles. Godness, every home owner who has them is trying to kill them.

When people talk about they are glad they have a snake in their garden to kill the rabbits, no one makes a big deal out of that.

What about the hunters who are killing wildlife. No one is euthanizing them last I checked and they kill far more animals than feral cats.

So you are saying in order for birds to live, all feral cats living on the street must die. Ridiculous

The difference between cats and wildlife is that cats are not native the ecosystem. The native creatures haven't evolved together to develop the natural balance between prey and predator.

And hunting is a highly regulated, licensed activity. The number of licenses that are issued are based upon the population numbers of the animals that are closely monitored by the wildlife officials. And hunters are told which prey they can kill and which prey are protected. If the alien cat predators could differentiate between those species that are threatened and endangered and those which are not, no problem. If cats were native, there probably would be a hunting season for them - just like there is for squirrels, raccoons, and other small game.

It's always easy to consider yourself a good neighbor until -uh oh - you actually have to put yourself out.
If you want to get along with your neighbors, help the cats, keep the cat population down - your going to have to get involved. Otherwise its none of your business.
You ask why should you...Why should anyone have to do anything? I don't have kids but pay taxes to support schools. Everyone has a why do I have to....blah blah. You have to to get along. AND its the right way to handle it.
Get some info for local TNR help and reasons why. Go talk to your neighbors. Tell them you'll help with the trap, transportation, cost even if you could care less, but because they do care. Gently convince them that feeding is humane but not neutering is irresponsible. Participate or be quiet.

Hunting season on cats is 365 days a year. They are the most hated and most abused species alive. They aren't native? When they kill vermon such as mice and rats no one complains about them not being native.

What species have cats wiped out completely? What species has man wiped out completely and continue to wipe out on a daily basis?

I guess those guys with all the stuffed animals in their dens, which include animals listed on the endangered species lists, didn't understand the rules of hunting. Them all being environmentalists and such.

I couldn't have said it better myself, brutuses. Cats are the most abused animal, and it's one of many reasons I'd never think of letting my cats outside. There are too many sickos out there. And since when did some hunters ever listen to what prey they can kill or not kill? Some kill anything with four legs.

Lily, don't forget the many birds hunters kill just for the fun of killing. They go out and shoot tiny quail. What's a quail weigh, about 6 oz's. So that means they need to kill a big mess of them to make a meal, right? I know that one quail hunter will kill more birds in one hunting season than all my cats will kill in their lifetime.

I've never met a cat who wakes up in the morning and says I'm going kill myself a mess of birds this morning or I'm going kill me a deer so I can stick his head up on the wall. Man kills out of ego, for fun, to impress, to brag, and the list goes on and on. Not many men/women I know that hunt have to do it to survive. Only their ego needs to survive bragging rights with the other recreational hunters. Never quite understood how intentionally killing an animal for something other than food, could be considered sport or recreation. Maybe there's a study out there to explain that.

No other animal on this earth kills for sport, only the human.

No other animal on this earth kills for sport, only the human.

That is very funny.... felines kill for "sport" also.

I wish I had a dollar every time I saw a non feral cat waltz out of my yard with a native bird- to think that feral cats are not seriously impacting our native bird population is purely delusional.

It's called instinct. I don't see any of them hanging bird heads on the wall and sharing braging rights with other cats. LOL

Junebug, don't get your point. Are you saying ferals kill more birds than non feral cats? How do you know which cats kill the most birds? Do they wear little signs indicating they are capable of killing? As I said, most of my cats have never killed a bird and wouldn't even know how to. Most came to me as ferals. My cats are no more capable or have a desire to kill then do my dogs. They also came to me as strays.

Impacting and causing extinction? Poluted water, food and air, are impacting every species of wildlife and humans alike. Do we go put the people responsible for that to sleep.

Feral cats are a scapegoat and cat haters will always find fault because they hate them and that's the bottom line.

I think this discussion for me, has gone on as far as it can go. You can continue to advocate killing ferals and I will continue to advocate making life better for them.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject.

I wish I had a dollar every time I saw a non feral cat waltz out of my yard with a native bird
I would still make more, if I had a dollar for every feral cat hater

Brutuses, you are absolutely right, there is no point to continue. OP asked for a suggestion, some people suggested TNR, and JP jumped on the bandwagon of "Kill the Feral Cats". Nothing new.

What I meant is that all cats are into killing things, with ferals killing many more. I have inside cats who don't kill anything except the occasional house plant.

Wouldn't it be nice if people just spoke the truth? Clearly someone who advocates the use of a 22 to solve a problem isn't worth engaging. IMO, it's best to just ignore that level of intelligence. I'm in awe of the work some of you are doing to help cats with TNR and fostering colonies and so forth. I'm very impressed, and feel that I've learned a lot from your detailed explanations. I intend to find a local chapter and get involved -- for no other reason than it would be a good thing to do. What a concept, huh? As for all of those who were mocked with sneers of "feeding the cute kitties," it is heartening to hear of people with kind hearts. Bless them for being that way. And the exaggerations about the killing of birds is amazing. I have 5 cats that all go outside. Between all of them, they maybe kill 4 birds a year. Granted, they are domestic and well cared for, but they still have instincts. I also had feral cats around my property. I didn't find "tons of feathers." I wonder... should we start killing all the hawks, crows, owls, and other predators of "songbirds"? This whole "songbird populations are being decimated" blah, blah, blah is just another BS soapbox that people who don't like cats like to jump on. And, of course, ALL of the "feral" cats are loaded with fleas. How is this known by those who profess it with such exuberance? Did it ever occur to any of you that there are rabbits, raccoons, mice, moles, voles, opossums, etc. etc. with fleas in your environment? It's never ceased to amaze me how people justify their thoughts that some animals/people are worthy of their care and concern, while others are not. The "outside" dog in the prison (aka kennel) vs. the "inside dog" by the fireplace. My cat vs. some other cat. "Songbirds" vs. grackles. Pet pigs or cows on "family farms" vs. the tortured animals (look up gestation crates) that we all have no problem eating. We're all God's creatures, aren't we? No one's telling you, original poster, that you HAVE to do anything. You whined. We answered. Try to find some compassion in your heart for those poor cats and your neighbors.

Betsy just because you dont find feathers does not mean it does not happen. I am just as upset with people who let their pet cats roam as with ferals and their feeders. Not those who do the TNR but those that just feed. As for how I know its the ferals that bring fleas into my yard, well for one thing I have not seen a squirrel, rat, or opossum or anything else furry in my yard except for cats. Therefore as I have found cats lounging in my yard as oppossed to other pests I blame them. And while I think humans by themselves do enough damage I also think non native animals also do harm. I have not killed nor will ever kill any cat. But I will kill other non native animals like cane toad. Its not just with animals I practice selection. I also do it with plants. Just as I would not release a non nontive animal I also don't introduce non native spreading plants. Which is probably why native animals are attracted to my yard and how I find bird feathers. And grackles are great for eating lubbers.

There is a special sign in he'll with your name on it and if you taught your dog better they would not try to attack every cat they see those ferals are God creation