I understand your problem. I adopted an 11 year old cocker spaniel last July. Older dogs can learn new tricks! Have you ever watched the Dog Whisperer? I have learned a lot from watching Cesar's show. I believe that Walmart carries DVD's of the show.

I really don't like shock collars either. Cesar doesn't use one, but maybe a harness. We got Elvis (our adopted baby) a harness. What works the best with him though is a training collar. It has a choke chain on part of it and it keeps him from pulling us. I put in the url for where we got ours.

It does take a little time for the new one to understand that you are there forever for her. I bet when she has had a little more time that she will do better.

Here is a link that might be useful: Training collar

A dog that bolts may never be taught not to chase and run. Some dogs are just that way. You obviously know that she needs to be contained and leashed at all times.

You should work on teaching her to respond to the come command. Coming to you should be the best thing that has ever happened to her. Treats, pets and high praise, every time she comes to you. It usually works best with two people in a contained area. Have someone hold her on leash. You walk away, call her name, and the word "come"...in a happy high pitched voice. Give her a treat and tons of pets when she comes to you, even if takes her awhile. And then practice it over and over again... eventually the dog learns that coming to you is grea and she could come faster and faster each time (for that treat that you have). (Don't discipline her when she doesn't come... just ignore her... Don't chase her - because that is a fun game that she wants you to chase.)

Sometimes you can change a chase and run, into a game by having her chase you. If your dog is turning you chasing her into a game, run in the opposite direction while calling her name. If you can, make her chase you... and then give her a treat when she catches you.

First, consider what your dog has been through over the past few months. It's confused and trying to find it's place. It's your responsibility to guide it.

Your dog simply MUST learn the "come" command. This is the most important command you will probably ever teach it. You could already have used it at least twice.

First get "quality treat". Something like boiled chicken liver. Dogs crave it, and you have really got their attention when you use it. If chicken liver is not something you care to use, get something else that you will only use for training purposes.

Put the dog in "sit" at your feet. Use tons of praise, then give a small bit of treat. Repeat, only take a small step back. When you are far enough away from the dog not to touch it with your outstretched hand, palm up hand, place a piece of treat under your thumb and bend it over to hide the treat. The idea is to get your dogs nose to touch your palm when you give the command "come"

Then, repeat the sit command, step back a few steps, reach out to the dog with your palm and hidden treat, and say "come". The dog will smell the hidden treat and take it. The dog should stay in "sit" until you say "come". Increase the distance only a few small steps until you can get into another room where the dog can't see you.

Training takes time, but it well worth it. I rescued a 4 month old pup last April (this in addition to my two others). She was completely traumatized by her early life. The "come" command was the first I ever teach my rescue dogs. When walking her with the others one day, her collar broke, just when a school let out. She started to run confused with traffic etc. all around. I used the "come" command, and she instantly came to my welcome arms. A very scary situation with a very happy result because of this command.

I attach all of my leashes together using a slip knot. This way, if I do drop the leashes, they are all together.

Good luck!

SG

I always assume shelter dogs have had little to no training. Behavior problems are the biggest reason they get dumped. Just start working with her like you would a new puppy. Ten days isn't long for her to settle into a new place and really consider it home.

Lisa

I certainly think training and rewards are very important and worth trying, but there are some dogs that just can't ever be trusted to not bolt. I wouldn't hesitate to use an electronic collar on a dog like that. You can buy one that allows you to give a warning beep and only shock if the dog ignores the beep. Most dogs quickly learn to respond to the beep. They also adjust for the amount of correction necessary for a particular animal and at low settings, it's startling and annoying but not painful. It certainly is a better alternative and less uncomfortable than being hit by a car.

My minpin began going to obedience classes as a young puppy. My kids were in 4-H and showed him in obedience classes and junior showmanship. He was constantly worked with because of this, yet we could never trust him to not slip out the door at the slightest chance and he would never come back when we called. The more we chased the further away he would run.

The only thing that changed things was the installation of an electronic fence. He is very sensitive to the beep and never gets shocked, but because of the training to the fence, he sees me as a guide who tells him where he can safely go if he gets loose. He thinks I'm warning him away from a shock when I call him and will sit and wait for me to get him. It's made life with him so much more pleasant than it used to be.

I agree with Lisa that you should treat the dog like a very young pup (I was forced to do this as my pup got older and had issues). Doing this really puts things in perspective for you.

I also think it would do you well to consult with your vet and the animal rescue league where the dog came from. Lots of times they have someone who can help with these types of issues at little or no cost.

I don't agree with a shock collar. It causes pain and frightens the dog. You are trying to get the creature to trust you, not be afraid of you.

This is going to take time (up to six months or more) and commitment on your part to get the dog where you want it.

SG

7-10 miles a day!?! ?!?!

And no, you should not be "learning from TV shows" like the dog whisperer. They are for entertainment purposes only and they post 20 thousand disclaimers a minute trying to tell people that.

Go to an obedience class. Give it some time. 10 days is not enough time to let a new rescue off leash, your instincts were right. Freedom must be earned.

Lots of one on one time and join an obedience training class.

I adopted a 5 yr old shepX and it took a year for her to bond to us and for me to totally trust her. She became a great friend and guard dog and would do a sit stay until I gave permission to break. I once gave her the command when the UPS driver asked to borrow my phone. When I came back out of the house she was still there and the driver wouldn't leave his truck. I had forgotten I gave her the command!

Anyway, her only downfall was CATS. She'd do anything to chase one, so I always walked her on leash. The other thing I learned with her was that she'd do anything I asked if she had her collar on. With it off she was a little harder to control.

Thanks for all the responses. I know this dog is going to take work, and I am committed to that. Let me clarify some points. I actually know where the dog lived most of her life. Her former owner groomed my dog for a few months, then had to stop because of tendonitis issues. I suspected this was her dog because the dog is named Star, as is my standard poodle. The shelter gave me her rabies paperwork with the name crossed off, but it was imprinted and I could read the former owners name. The home she came from was way out in the country, and the dog ran free. So there is part of the problem. The other part of the problem, obviously, is the lack of obedience training. Masha (we had to re-name her) is a hunter, and this behavior is well ingrained.

I was told the previous owner had to give her up because of illness issues. Not sure this is quite true, because I assisted a family member at the hospital I work at some months ago, and we had a nice chat about our "Stars". In any case, the dog was given up.

I have contemplated calling this lady to get further information on the dog, and to assure her that if she or whoever is ill recovers and they would like the dog back, I would be willing to foster her extensively. Do you think that is a good or bad idea?

I am willing to work with Masha and try to train her, I know it will take a lot of work. She does sit to command, so someone at least taught her that. She will come in the house, too. But she is like a demon when running free. It is almost like she is laughing at me when I try to catch her, I'm sure she is having the time of her life.

Yes, I do walk my dogs that much. I usually go in the morning and again at night. I have a group of friends and there are usually 4 of walking our dogs. It is more socialization than exercise, but with great benefits for all involved.

Thanks again for your responses.

Electronic collars absolutely do have a good place in a training regimen, but in this case I don't think it would work for your new dog.

Our dog (a shepherd/lab mix) is, for the most part, extremely well-behaved, comes when called inside and out, etc., etc. However, we live in the suburbs, and my parents have a 100-acre farm in the country... we've been up to visit at least a dozen times with Callie (our dog) always off-leash; she's perfectly fine outside, but we never let her out unsupervised.

However, a couple of months ago while on a visit to the farm, she had her first encounter with a deer. The deer ran, and Callie gave chase-- and as soon as she took off I called (and called and called and CALLED), and she completely ignored me. She was at least 600 yards away before she finally broke off the chase; I was absolutely terrified that she was going to keep going and get shot. (Farmers can-- and DO-- shoot dogs running after deer, livestock, etc.)

As soon as we got home, we ordered an e-collar, and when it arrived (after testing it on ourselves), we had Callie wear it (turned off) every now and then just to get used to it and not associate "the collar" with "getting shocked." The collar we got has 3 signals-- tone-only, momentary ("nick"), and continuous shock for up to 8 seconds, with 7 intensity levels.

We never had to actually USE it until the next time we visited the farm, when she got chasing a rabbit and wouldn't come when called... I used the "tone-only," got no response... I gave her a "nick" at level 1 and got no response, so I upped it to level 4; she gave a quick yelp and immediately came running back to me. That was the only time I had to "shock" her for the remainer of the weekend; after that, if I yelled "come," she came immediately.

There are times when e-collars are appropriate. We aren't in a position to train obedience with EVERY possible distraction, and if the option is to keep our dog on-leash 100% of the time or use an e-collar ONCE to reinforce "come," I will gladly use the e-collar to give my dog some freedom.

HOWEVER, in your case I don't think an e-collar would be appropriate, because after only 10 days your dog has barely, if at all, bonded to you-- if she gets shocked, who's to say that she's going to return to YOU for safety/comfort? She could easily just keep running. E-collars only work if a.) you know the basics of training with them, and b.) your dog is well-bonded to you; otherwise, they're probably more dangerous than anything.

That would be very nice of you to foster the dog and to improve the behavior so that the owner could possibly care for the dog again. I've never heard of an out of control standard poodle so this is all very strange stuff. I guess whether or not I would do it would depend on the circumstances and why the original owner gave up the dog.

That's sounds like fun about the walking group. I wish I could get some local people near me interested in walking together but that will probably only happen in my dreams.

How long does it take you to walk that long or each session?

Having an out of control standard poodle is fairly common... Standard poodles are very smart, hunting dogs. Standard poodles require good training and lots of exercise, like so many of the other "driven" breeds, without a job, they end up in rescues for behavior problems.

Because this particular poodle was left to run by her previous owners, she knows the joys of running and smelling, and it may be nearly impossible to keep her from "bolting". She will take every opportunity to run, when they arise...you may never get to the point where she can be allowed off leash.

However, over time as you develop a relationship - her bolts will become less and less frequent.

QQ, it depends on the length and our schedules. I do walk the dogs by myself, too, usually in the evenings for 1-1.5 hours. We used to walk around the lake we live on, 10 miles around, and it would take us about 3 hours. We haven't done that this year because I really don't think my 10 yr old guy could make it anymore.

Masha is wonderful and mellow and sweet in the house. It's just outside-she's always on the hunt and will chase anything except birds. Isuppose she would chase a wild turkey if one was around, though, or some chickens. Uh oh, more animals I will have to watch out for, lol.

There are some great postings here with great suggestions. It is never too late to train a dog. Your leash walking her is right on, and she will settle down - give her time. Leash walking and not being angry with her when she does bolt is 2 of the basics. Carry a favorite treat with you in case it happens again. To get your dog to bond with you, tie the leash around your belt loop while you are home doing errands. This forces her to folow you around and basically bond with you. Good luck, be patient, make things fun.

Wow Quirky, we need to move closer together. I'd love a few people to go walking the dogs with.

Lisa

The most I think I can walk in one day and enjoy it, is about 5.5 miles.
Our regular walks to a nearby shopping center and back are about 4 miles and that takes about 2 hours even though we are walking around 3.7-3.9 mph. But those long walks are about once a week. The terrain here is hilly and even going downhill is unpleasant because the boys tend to pull on the leash when going downhill. Dobesrule, you would probably leave me in the dust as I go huffing and puffing across the countryside.

edit to above:
...even though we are walking around 3.7-3.9 mph, we have a lot of obstacles, crossing the street and browsing the pet store at the shopping ctr.

Probably not. I'm a bit of a huffer and puffer myself. I'm trying to do better tho. Used to walk the Dobe about three miles a day but that was before her arthritis and my heel spur.

Lisa