I don't know anything about training dogs, someone else here should be able to tell you whether the dog can be re-trained. For myself, the dog acting agressively around my child would be a complete deal breaker. There's the potential for him to bite her, and you'd never be able to forgive yourself if he did. You need a pet that you can trust to be with your daughter without your constant supervision. I would return it and make it clear that the dog can not be adopted with a family with young kids.

You sound pretty dog savvy, but have you read 'Childproofing your Dog' by Brian Kilcommins?

"each time the child was only lying near her and petting her...not interrupting food time or toy time at all."

Until you have worked this through, please ask your daughter to stand up when around the dog, and to call her name and get the dog to stand up too, before approaching her. This may just be a startle reflex, and the dog may have been sleeping and surprised and on the defensive.

Would you consider seeing a behaviorist for an assessment? She sounds like a great dog and this may be workable. She has NOT bitten your daughter, and I completely agree with your concerns and priority of keeping your daughter safe. But this may be very workable. Dogs are dogs, and none are completely bite proof, and of course children always need to be supervised around them especially at such a young age.

First of all, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for trying to give this dog a good home.

Nipping at the kids would definitely be a hard issue to deal with.... maybe not hard at all to break, but you'll have to watch like a hawk 24/7. What you do from here is completely up to you - but remember, you are responsible for this animal. If she nips at someone not-so-understanding, you could be sued and have to put the dog down.

Me personally, I'd keep that dog on a leash or in a kennel constantly and see if this aggression dissipates or if it's workable. You never know - she's still got a lot of new stuff going on. This behavior might not be 'her,' but a reaction to all the change. Some rescues take a while to get adjusted.

Capone (our dog) is a rescue and has done a 180 in a month and a half. He wasn't potty trained at all, weighed only 85lb, cowered from EVERYTHING, knew nothing about walking on a leash, was VERY 'grabby' with his mouth, knew no commands whatsoever, etc. I'd say he's well on his way to being adjusted to his new life now.

He's halfway through his first obedience class (which had done WONDERS for his confidence), he's learning a few tricks at home, is very well behaved in the house, in the car, etc. We're still a work in progress: he will still duck from us every once in a blue moon if he can't read us, he's over-protective at the drive-thru (only been twice - he's totally fine and relaxed until they stick their hand out the window. Go fig.), will still have an accident in the house every blue moon - when he gets excited about chasing a bird outside and totally forgets about potty time, etc. But in a month and a half he's made incredible strides.

I guess my point is that issues are part of the territory with rescued dogs. In your case, my concerns would be: 'Can I be "right there" anytime my child and the dog are in the house together?, Can I keep the dog contained until I can be "right there" with her?, Can I keep that up and be consistent long enough to see if this behavior is a part of her personality that cannot be broken?'

I agree with Foosacub, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for giving this creature a wonderful home!

This situation sounds similar to what I had, only with two different dogs. One had Lyme (got that fixed) the other had issues with being traumatized since birth until I cam along when she was four months old. What a mess.

You have your work cut out for you. The dog has been through a lot and is now feeling the way she should. At this point, I would say things are going really well, considering everything. That's not to say that the growling etc. is acceptable. It's not.

You don't mention if the dog is crate trained. This in essential for her. The crate will give her a place to feel save. Putting an old sheet over the crate so she feels closed in and secure will also be very helpful. To get her to go in easily, toss a treat into the crate (boiled chicken liver is best, it's a quality treat all dogs love) and tell her to "go home". Soon, all you will need to say is "go home" and she will. If she whines when you crate her "LIGHTLY" tap on the top of the crate and say firmly "NO". You don't want to scare Martha into next year.

You must supervise Martha every second when she is not crated. She should also have a leash on her so you can easily grab her if she gets into mischief. She should know the commands "sit" "down" "here" and "stay. "Here" is the most important. You always want her to come to you no matter what.

There is so much for you to do with this wonderful dog. Be careful when correcting her not to be to rough. You could force her into doing submissive urination. Try not making eye contact with her for a while, petting her on the head or yelling at her to much. All of these things are scary to dogs and a threat.

You sound like you are almost there in the house training dept?

Good luck!

SG

I believe this is a training problem. Your dog doesn't fully know its place in the hierarchy of your home and is testing her boundries to increase her status. All dogs do this, she's not being "sneaky", it's part of how dogs live and interact with each other (she considers your family her pack). Cynthia is dead on about maintaining a higher level with the dog, no need to be fearful, but DO be cautious and watchful. Keep your child safe and don't allow the dog to cross the bite threshold. I'd put a leash on the dog and never let it out of my sight when your child or a visitor is in your home.

I would suggest a basic obedience class IMMEDIATELY. And after class #1 get every human in the household "on board". Your dog needs to "learn her place", and with time, patience, and INSTRUCTION it should be easily achievable.

(Owner of a 100 lb. adoptee who had NO training, at all when we adopted him, and who still provides plenty of challenges. But who has also proven to be a jolly and gentle companion.)

Be prepared to work really hard on the obedience stuff! but it WORKS.

Thought I'd add: with Capone, ridiculous praise and treats made potty time fun for him (so fun he'd go try to let out a drop or two when he didn't really have to go - just for the praise!), although keeping him leashed at potty time did not work for us - we tried a 25' leash - still wouldn't do it. Guess he's just a priss. *shrug*

...and I totally agree with SG about being FIRM and 'the boss' but not too rough - they still need to feel secure.

Thank you, everyone, for your kind words and advice!

I definitely believe that obedience training will help - both with controlling her and with her confidence. It is clear to us that she is still unsure about her "place" in the home - so true! Sometimes she is very, very shy and other times she is assertive. My gut tells me that when she learns this is her real honest-to-God home then she will settle out some more.

Yes, she is crate trained. We've been keeping her crated when away during the day and she does not mess in there. Yay! She sleeps on a fluffy bed near ours at night and does not mess in it either...she'll walk to the hallway for that...

We feel she is part of the family, so I would be very open to seeing a "behaviorist" before just returning her. Today she exhibited some behaviors that I found thought provoking. We let her outside to run in our fenced backyard and she likes to run at full speed from one corner to another, turn a few times, and run back, and so on. We find it quit comical. Then if one of us stands out there with her she swoops by within inches of us and then goes back out at full speed. At one point, she swept behind my daugher and knocked her down, and then laid down a few feet away and growled lightly. Her tail was wagging and she didn't close in, but I still immediately and firmly told her "no!" She slunk away quite embarrassed and then proceeded to tear apart one her stuffed animals inside the house a few minutes later. ??? She does this with us as well, but the tearing up of the toy immediately after we averted any aggression toward our child is perplexing me. This could just be her playful side and any "real" aggression was taken out on the toy - GOOD ...or it could be a sign of something more...much to think about.

thanks again to everyone...keep that insight coming...

Today's growling sounds like puppy play to me:
she's a puppy, daughter's a puppy, let's play!
(not that you can allow it, but maybe that's what was going on).

Tearing up the toy may have been frustration/embarrassment.

So maybe she's beginning to learn her position in the pack.

I'll defer to others about the nipping, because I have no real expertise, but I will say that the play you describe is exactly the way my dog likes to play; running around in big circles at top speed, "charging", shredding stuffed toys into little bits, and it is all play. It's how she burns off excess energy that she doesn't have anything to do with all day long while I'm at work. Also, lying on the ground, lightly growling (I call it "play-growling", it's definitely different from serious warning growls) with tail wagging sounds like the way my dog (and others I've observed) invite other dogs to play. It sounds like she is trying to entice your daughter to play with her. She definitely needs to learn some manners, to learn that your daughter is little enough she can get knocked down and hurt, and to be supervised at all times around your daughter, but it sounds like play, not aggression, to me.

Altho this seneriao is a bit different, you should be able to adapt it to your house. One thing that you have to remember that your dog is in the Hound group and they can be a bit bull headed and they HAVE to run and if they cannot run enough you may experience more behavior problems. Cudos to you for taking on this challenge when all is said and done I bet this animal will be an outstanding member of the family!

Here is a link that might be useful: Kids and dogs

Ummm, if your friend was fostering her and she is covered in ticks and has Lyme disease, and wasn't housebroken in 7 months and nips at kids. A great deal went wrong in that fostering.

Sorry but this is a dog I would never trust near children. You might teach it and train it and it could be a great dog but it has shown its tolerance for kids and all it takes is one time.

Gammyt -- you've touched on a whole other area that bothers me, but unfortunately not much I can do about that now. It has certainly made me uncomfortable discussing Martha's status with my coworker, to say the least. The only reason I mentioned that part of the story is because I honestly felt that I'd done my homework prior to adopting her. A big part of my frustration right now is not just with our new family member, but with the people who misled me. I guess they were desperate to adopt her after having her so long. But that doesn't excuse the misinformation.

So earlier tonight I was sitting about 10 feet away from Martha and my daughter sits down next to her. Martha is awake and calm, just lying on her bed. When my daugher tries to pet her head...Martha began barking in a manner I've never heard from her before. I was out of my chair in a split second and across the room, all the while thinking my daughter might be mauled before I could get there. The sound was THAT scary (not the usual hound baying). I separated them and DH is walking her now. We're scared. No doubt about it. We feel like she is now WAAAAY over the line, even though she did not bite. This was not playful AT ALL.

But we can't return her to that place. And we can't just give up, either. So I'm reading and researching as much as I can. I will certainly keep her restrained and away from my daughter while we try to sort this out. I just can't believe that with all this research and contemplation and care...that this is happening.

Thanks to all trying to help...

"Just laying on her bed."

Please please please. You must have your daughter call the dog and have her stand up before the child pets her. That was not a warm fuzzy bonding suggestion. It was a serious safety tip. If the dog is LAYING ON HER BED when your daughter approachs you are risking a bite.

I've had wonderful luck with a spray bottle of water.

Misbehavior gets a sharp "No!" & a spritz.

They *hate* it.

Best luck.

Cynthia,
I truly appreciated your advice earlier, but the "tsk tsk" tone of your most recent post is off putting and completely unnecessary. I am already distraught over this experience which was incredibly frightening for me. Perhaps you should consider that before making the situation even more frightening. An explanation of your advice would be far more helpful than a scolding.

My dog lies on her bed whenever she is in the house and we are home (she is crated when we are away). It is her indoor personna. When she is lying down on her bed, no amount of coaxing will get her to stand. Unless it is time to eat, I must come over with the leash and once I clip it on, THEN she will stand and move as requested. Treats are eyed with disdain. I consulted with several people locally including my vet who assured me that this is normal hound personality. I was told that they are both mellow and stubborn. Thus we sometimes refer to her as "Mount Martha."

Thus, if you are suggesting that anytime a dog is lying down it is a risk to bite then I'm perplexed. Please explain so I understand better.

BTW, while I appreciate more input from anyone willing to participate...we have consulted a professional behaviorist in our area. I'm waiting for her to call me now. This situation is simply too worrisome and urgent for me to rely on internet postings and book arrivals from Amazon.

Hi learn as I go,
Im sort of biased on this post, but please give me a moment to say that I would get the dog out of the house now. I had a jack russell that was aggressive from the beginning. We worked for over a year at trying to get over his issues. We put him down a few weeks ago after he went after a neighbor lady that was riding her bike down the street and he was a good 300 ft back from the road. Please dont risk your child or a neighbor for a dog. It is a heartbreaking decision to make but you are not able to trust him. My husband and I put up with our "baby" biting us and eventually biting our other "baby". We tried everything to help him, train him and to love him. Sometimes it just does not work. Im sorry to be so negative but this experience with our beloved Pee Wee scared me so bad. Please think about returning this dog or having it euthanized. Sorry to be so blunt but I worry about your daughter.
Lorie

Leaning over a dog is threatening in any situation, but especially so when the dog is laying on the floor, and the leaner is a small child whom she doesn't see as a leader. Most bites occur when a child is on the sofa with the dog or leans over it on the floor. So the simple caution until things are under control is...um, see above :-) Having the dog respond to it's name and get up is also a very good way to be sure that the dog is completely awake and also reinforces that your daughter is the leader, not the dog.

There was no 'tsk tsk' in my response, that was pure fright and I do predict a bite if you allow it to continue. Good that you are seeing a behaviorist, I agree you need in person help; it will be easier for you to have someone to talk with who can assess the situation, show you what not to do and help you to teach the dog 'upsy puppsy.' You need more time with Martha and high value treats to train her. Do you reward her and use the command when you help her up with the leash? That's the beginning of training. Doesn't matter how she did it, she did it, reinforce and reward. Soon she'll get up without the leash.

You may also want to put the bed away until she earns it.
Keep us posted on how things are going and what you decide to do.

I have to weigh in behind Cynthia again. It's easy to read things into posts that were unintended when you're upset about an issue like this one. Have you ever owned a dog before? or is this a new experience for you? If this dog is your first you're certainly getting your "trial by fire". Hang in there.

Over the course of my life I've had several dogs and each one has taught me something more about the complexity of canine behavior and each one has had a distinct personality. The present one is big, bold, and intelligent. He is a lot of work.

Martha is unsure of her status in the household and your daughter is the essentially the first rung on Martha's climb to "more status". She has her "territory" (her bed) and doesn't know the basic commands that are the cornerstones of obedience training. You have a potentially lethal combination of forces at work in your home right now. I've never had a 4 yr. old before, but I'd guess she can be "forgetful" about things like "don't touch the dog" only because she really wants to pat her and can't really grasp the potential danger involved. I'm glad you've found a behaviorist and I certainly hope you will beat feet to an obedience class ASAP. I don't believe the situation is without hope, but you ARE at a crossroads; you must commit yourselves 100% to Martha's rehabilitation or consider whether or not she is the dog for your household.

Anecdote: We began obedience training immediately with our adoptee and he made great progress. No sign of agression or defensiveness with his food bowl, the cats, being handled. We spent 20 minutes a day on basic stuff, and made sure there was a lot of leash walking, too. One day, we were outdoors, working in the yard and he was parked on the lawn with a bone, contentedly gnawing away on it. We were ready to go in and I called him to me. He hesitated and just stared at me. I approached him, he lowered his head and curled his lip at me. "Leave it!" I commanded him. He dropped the bone and I commanded him to "Sit!". He did, but tried for the bone again... "Leave it!", and then "Come!". He obeyed me and then I praised him. But had we not been completely on board with training him early on the situation could have had a more unpleasant outcome. Now, he gets smaller bones and only when I know he will have time to savor them without interruption. And we have continued on leash obedience work to this day. "Leave it!" is one I pay particular attention to. It's the safeR way to take something away, and everything in our dog's world belongs to US, not him!

I was talking about this thread with the helpmeet as we were taking out the recyclables and trash. He offered up the following:

Right now, neither your dog nor you (humans) speak the same language. Your dog is trying to communicate with you in her language and you are trying to communicate with her in your language. You need an interpreter! and THAT'S what Obedience work is all about. It gives each of you a way to communicate that is clear and concise.

Our dog bit a child in his former home. He was surrendered because he went for a dropped cookie at the same time the child did, and got the kid's hand in the process. His owners realized he was too big and they didn't have the time to devote to what was required. They were upset about it and repeatedly said it wasn't the "dog's fault". Not every dog is the right fit for every home. Remember that.

But do start with the behaviorist and some basic obedience work.

The thing is to care3fully watch to see what the behavior is that is making your dog bare its teeth - what are the kids doing at the time. Next, be assertive, even the kids without being aggressive - in other words dont accept the behavior. The second the dog bars its teeth say in a firm voice NO (never try and grab at the dg or hit back) I would like to know what is triggering the behavior tho - Have your kids walk the dog as frequently as possible, this will help your dog understand that the kids are higher up on the totem pole than the dog - the kids need to be involved in helping train the pup - sit stay heel, roll over - any trick is going to help. Positive reinforcement is the way to go. If the dog ignores the voice commands - get an empty soda can and fill it a thrid full with dried beans - tape it closed with electrical tape or other heavy duty tape and shake it at the dog when he bares its teeth. This should help out with your dogs attitude - The most important thing you all can do is walk the dog frequently - on a leash. Good luck, let us know how it goes

I'm going to echo the laying down thing. Just from personal experience, alone. Our big guy, isn't all that agressive. However, if we were loud and standing over him, scolding him, or just being noisey and over him, he would do 1 of two things. He either cowered, or he showed his teeth and growled. He felt threatened. Now that he's been in this home for nearly 2 years, and is used to me and surroundings, he hasn't done it in a long time. However, we are also careful not to put him or ourselves in that situation, just incase.

Now I hate to compare your daughter to a cat, but for my stories sake, try to see the comparison. Big guy has snapped on the cats twice. Both times he was laying down, wide awake. The first time, the cat startled him and he just bolted up onto his side and snarled and barked at her. Second time, she was slinking (you know, when cats get all mischevious and stalk there way around the room?) and he didn't see her til she was right in front of him, and he got skitterish. I learned then that just because he appeared to be awake, didn't mean he was paying attention to everything going on. His eyes are also starting to go, so that may play a role in it for us.

I have a beagle, and hounds are generally great with kids. However, I have a lot of the time (when looking for rescues) seen requirements that they not be with kids under 10, or 12, or small animals, etc etc. My dog loves anything that will look at her, but theres obviously a reason that homes with little ones aren't always recommended.

However, do not stress yourself about this dog. Try as much as you want, and if it doesn't work, don't feel bad. You've done what you could, but obviously your daughters saftey is first and foremost as it should be. Perhaps if it doesn't work out, he can find a forever home with someone who doesn't have kids.

I should have known better but once I went up to my greyhound while she was sleeping and petted her on the back. She turned and growled at me and then was embarrassed because she saw it was me. And when I first got her, I got a huge bone at the grocery store and gave her in the yard, She loved it..possibly the only time she ever had one. I just walked up to her and asked her how she liked it and she turned and growled and bared her teeth. I quickly got on the phone w/ my rep, and she told me to take the bone after reprimanding her, and give it to her later. I can't remember but I don't think I did. Those teeth were too big. She also used to growl at my toddler grandson but I couldn't blame her for that. She ignored him when he was born and as an infant but when he got "legs' he went wild. He had a walker and he'd run all over the place including in Ruby's direction. Luckily neither the dog or grandson ever got injured and Ruby really started loving the kid. She was a fantastic dog , very sweet and once she learned the ropes, she was okay. We were her first home from the track and that's not a life at all.

learn - thank you for doing a good thing by rescuing. Your dog is just starting to feel at home apparently, perhaps a little too much so. I didn't have time to read the above responses, just your initial post.

Some things that immediately come to my mind:

1. If you aren't crating your dog, start. I am not sure if you posted how old your new rescue is? You are going to need to start training that dog as if it were a new puppy, rather than whatever age the dog/puppy is at this moment;

2. Not okay for the dog ever "nip" at your daughter. When he touches his mouth to a human's body, take your hand and place around the end of the snout and pinch until you get a chirp from the dog. When you hear that, let go, soon your dog will get the point that a dog's mouth belongs nowhere near a human's body;

3. Enroll asap in a training program and you may want to take your children along if that is amenable to the training facility. You want everyone in the house (humans) to be above the dog in pack order); i.e.; the dog should respond to commands by you, your husband, next oldest child, etc.; and

4. Some rescue groups will actually pay for a behaviorist. My SIL rescued a lab this past fall and has a behaviorist (which I know is $100 hr. that the rescue is paying for). This dog is counter surfing and barking. There are no aggression issues, however.

The aggression is the part that worries me with your having a young child. These were just some immediate thoughts at this early hour.

Best of luck to you.

I am not a dog person and have never owned a dog but I do have a 5 year old daughter. I would have to ask if this is really worth it for you. My friend has an American Eskimo that she feels could be aggresive (especially towards strangers or other children). The dog has to be locked up whenever someone comes over. She also can never have a babysitter come to her house to watch her 3 year old daughter because of the dog. When myself and my kids were visiting the other day, she constantly told my kids "don't touch the dog" -- I was a nervous wreck. In my head I was thinking "who wants a pet like that."

I have a 1 year old kitty that is extremely tolerant of my kids. Even with me telling my 5 year old 20 times a day to stop -- she hugs the cat, lays on, him kisses him, etc... he is very tolerant and if he doesn't like it he walks away. It is impossible and not practical to expect your 4 year old to constantly respect the dog's boundaries. One of these days, she will slip and may pay the price.

I would let someone else try to rehabilitate him.

I thought I would chime in, since we recently adopted a dog with similar issues.

I agree with the majority of the above posters, that your dog is beginning to feel more comfortable and is trying to assess her "place" in the family rank.

For us, obedience training was a big help, and I've experimented with different things here at home. When our dog begins to growl, (for example, someone knocking at the door) I give her a quick spritz with the water bottle, saying loudly but calmly, "No growl!" Then I call her to me, put her into a sit and proceed to the door. If she remains calm, I praise her.

We're still working on things, but she is improving. It's a lot of work, but I believe it's worth it.

I too had an issue with baring of teeth and snapping at my younger daugher (teenager) and I thought seriously about returning Belle to the shelter. I couldn't go through with it, (we had just become too attached to her) and instead had a trainer come to our house for a few sessions. She gave me some pointers.

We still must be careful, and work with her every day. Only you can decide what is best. However, I am speaking from experience, the longer you keep her at home, the harder it is to return her. Your children and others safety must always come first, in my opinion. However,(and I'm far from an expert) I think training will eliminate her growling problems. Good luck with her!

Just a quick update.

I had a phone consultation with a dog behaviorist last night and we're following her tips (all about establishing our dominance). We have an appointment for an evaluation w/ her next week, and will make our decision based primarily on her input. She's been rehabilitating dogs for 29 years and came highly recommended after I spoke to 2 different vets. After our conversation I trust she will be completely honest with us.