"His concern was that it might kicked out of the way (the run ends near a doorway) or jostled by someone servicing the DW, causing the granite to fall on the DW"

It could be if it's not installed properly. He must not have a seasoned installer on board.

"What are others doing when their DW is at the end of a run?"

Securing panels properly, but trying to not design appliances at the end of a run!

What if you switch the dishwashwer and garbage? Would it throw off the plan too much, if your sink moved down a few inches?

Our KD originally recommended something similar. We had space issues, but were willing to sacrifice a few more inches and are getting a 9" cabinet to put cookie sheets and other flat items. Our current kitchen has a similar set up.

Can you talk to your fabricator/installer about this? Some are able to do things like create a cantilever, or put in a brace.

I would try for the 3" box column. If need be you could do a 15" trash.

I am going to have a similar problem, accept we are using second hand cabinets so I need to "create" something to go on the outside end of the dishwasher. I could probably order something that will be close enough to the color, but I need to fill about 6 inches to match the uppers.

I was thinking about building a wall out of lumber/drywall and painting it to match the walls. This way we can add insulation for sound. Has anybody done this?

DH suggested I tile it to match the counters and backsplash, but I think that would be too busy.

I think they have 15 in trash pullout as well-you must prefer the 18 in for a reason. I'd put the trash in the island where you have the 18 in stack of drawers. Put a 15 in stack to left of sink-and you have the space for a box column.

Your designer has evidently not done many installations. This layout happens all the time. A small 3/4 x 3/4"x 22" block on the floor, a 1x3x22" at the top and some blocking at the back is all you need and the panel isn't going anywhere.

I'd move the dishwasher. The panel is the least of it.

As Lavender_Lass suggested, I would consider switching the 18" cabinet and DW. While it's not ideal, it's not as much of an issue of the DW being in the way of prepping & cooking in your case b/c you have a prep sink in the island across from the range along with the refrigerator on that side of the kitchen as well.

I would also consider doing what HerbFlavor suggested and put the trash in the 18" cabinet in the island and the 18" drawer base next to the sink. This will put the trash in the island for prepping & cooking as well as near the sink.

(Oh, Rococogurl also suggested moving the DW.)

We had a temporary setup like that once, and we attached a board at the bottom so the end panel could not be moved. (like mentioned above)

In our case, we decided we didn't like the DW on that side and moved it and then raised it up. With it raised, it is actually inside a cabinet so the end panel is firmly fixed in place. It's still on an end, but not blocking a path anymore.

We moved it because we found it was a pain to have to go the "long" way around when the DW was open. And our island was much smaller. Part of the problem is DH gets use to traffic patterns and he'd not pay attention that the DW was open until he was at the point he had to turn around and go the other way. Or he'd want to push the tray in and close the door, and I'd turn around with a wet dish in my hand and the door would now be closed.

We lived with it that way for a few years and by the time we got back to working on the kitchen, moving it had become a prioriy.

I think all of you ,except don , are being obtuse.

Presumably Steve likes the layout he has chosen, so advice about moving the DW or making a smaller trash cabinet to get a useless 3" cabinet at the end is presumptuous, and just plain lazy. All this effort because you folks can't get your heads around how to solidly secure a 3/4" - 1" panel at the end of a cabinetry run.

Some people absolutely hate a DW to the left of their sink, Steve may be one of them ! Telling him to move it is, well.........

Perhaps he is already putting a small trash bin on the door under the island sink , therefor making another trashcan in the island redundant. Ever consider that?

Some of you really should consider your skill level when dispensing advise.

BTW - Steve, I consider making the cabinetry/counter at the pantry area lower right into a radius at the doorway to mimic the island curve. If the end is a cabinet, it will cost a little bit more than the angled version, but if it's just a counter overhang (which is what it looks like) it shouldn't cost any more. At any rate the curve will be more appealing visually without sacrificing much of the walkway.

Unless you really want to move your layout around (and I don't think there is anything wrong with it) the cheapest solution is to keep the DW where it is and have the end panel braced properly as suggested above. If your budget can take it, why not put the DW in a DW cabinet? It can get fastened to the wall and to the sink cab next to it. Won't go anywhere. If you need to, you can have a finished panel put on the end of the cab. The other suggestions about moving the DW around are just minor nitpicking with your layout. For example, moving the DW to the other side of the sink in place of the garbage causes more access issues with the stove and the cabs near the stove.

I had that in the previous house and once the panel is properly secured it's not going anywhere. The granite also had an overhang so moving that panel more than 1.5" would really have to be intentional. If someone is that careless the granite is the least of your worries.

All options need to be explored. To fixate on one to the exclusion of all else is, at best, short-sighted.

Until we hear from NYSteve how he feels about the various options, do not eliminate any option based on your preferences/biases.

Those coming up with other solutions are providing a very valuable service...looking at the whole picture and not focusing on just one piece. That's what good design is all about!

A steel frame and some magnets to hold the end panel in place.

I usually make the frames up from 1 inch steel angle iron, welded into a square with some bots as adjustable 'feet' on the bottom.

A handful of small 'super magnets' can be epoxied into pockets in the back of the end panel.

The steel provides solid support for the granite (and using at least two bolts for the feet allows the top member to be adjusted flat and snug under the granite).

Putting the dw where the trash us causes issues at the stove. Been there had that layout, know how absolutely stupid it is! Leave things where they are Steve!

I have the dw with a panel (I chose wood though because of the proximity to water as an FYI). The panel is properly braced, screwed into the floor and a cleat in the back and attached to the counter. It's properly installed and is not going anywhere. I think your I'd thinks they are just slipped in there with a little glue or something....in which case I'd leave the design as is but find another installer! Our dw was out for over a year while other things were done in the kitchen with just that hole open....and no collared counters here nor of course did the end panel move an inch.

As another FYI...we had to take a 36 cab from an end run after the granite was installed and bs was in due to a structural failure. The granite did not break. We did put a 1x1 brace on the far corner while slipping the cab out and replacing it. Nary a crack in granite nor bs :). Your kd is. A bit nuts..
But the design does make sense!

Leaving the DW in place and OPEN would be a good way to keep others out of the kitchen ;-) Just kidding, well actually maybe not... Anyway, I just finished reading the stinky garbage thread and think it would be nice to keep the trash away from where people are going to be seated. We'll also have an end of run DW, but against a wall. Braced on two sides unless we decide to have a DW cabinet.

I like it there. Just insist on proper installation and watch it carefully when it goes in so nobody takes shortcuts. When people don't want to do something and offer a flimsy reason, they usually don't know how to do it. So kick things around and make sure they are stable before putting on your granite. I expect the templater will have a word with you if it's too floppy as well.

Of course I'd get dishwasher drawers so it would be easier to get by when open...

antss is basically correct about us not wanting to mess with the design, particularly not the location of the DW. We currently have it to the left of the sink, in the equivalent of that corner, and we don't like it. Also, if I need to shrink something by 3", we pretty much know that it would whether be the garbage or the lazy susan. (While switching the drawers and trash could be useful, a 15" drawer stack actually doesn't sound like more of a waste than a 15" trash pullout. Those drawers would be kinda smallish.)

The real question for us is whether this KD was on track about the perils of putting a DW at the end of the run with just a simple end panel. If it's not an issue, then we don't have to change the design at all.

It sounds like macybaby, antss, and don92, all think that this can be made to work with a little reinforcement of the panel. Does anyone have a different view, i.e. a story of a problem with a setup like this, despite the installers best efforts to secure the panel?
Re: the curved cabinet in the lower right ... that is an interesting thought; an earlier version of this design had lots of angles and it fit better. Going to a curve now might be a reasonable thought, if it doesn't add much to the cost. Curvey cabinets do get pricey, though. I'll look into it.

Thanks for all of the inputs.

We have a DW at the end of a cabinet run, and used a large right-angle metal brace to support the countertop. Got the idea from a friend in the construction trades who... had a DW at the end of a cabinet run, and used a large right-angle metal brace to support the countertop. Nobody's had any problems. And it's a dirt cheap solution.

still_lynnski -- Thanks.

so you attached the right-angle brace to the wall behind the DW (with the brace now running back-to-front), to the end panel (with the brace running right-to-left), or both?

Take whatever wood based flat product ("melamine") that your kitchen cabinets will be made of:
5/8" panel (16mm)
3/4" panel

and if you wish,
1/8" flat bar can be used also, screwed to it.
1/8" flat bar, screwed to a 1/2" panel is also good.
Flat bar cut to fit as a vertical.
Behind the face panel of the dishwasher there is space for this.

OR
a return (side panel) made of the same quartz or stone that your counter is going to be made of.

I've done the quartz panel thing.
I've done the flat bar thing.
It's not a challenge if you know where to go to buy it and you know how to cut it with a grinder and the right blade.
I'm not a professional renovator so let any antss or other guy comment on this.

If several hundred pounds of dynamic animal get up onto the counter, will the end panel hold up, enough to ensure the counter won't crack. This is your goal.

Hi Steve. The brace is attached to the wall behind the DW, pretty tight against the exposed side of the DW, and running back-to-front. (The precise location wasn't at a stud, so we attached blocking to spread the load across a bit of wall, attaching the brace to the blocking and the blocking to the stud.) The end panel isn't subject to much force, so no bracing there.

"it's likely going to be attached to the dw, right?"

No, this is not necessarily correct, in fact euro DW's attach toi the sides of the adjacent panels/cabinets.

"why not put the DW in a DW cabinet?"

unless the DW is to be raised up off of the floor - there is no such thing. Toekicks wouldn't align, or there would be no floor to the cabinet making it just panels.

buehl I'm sorry, but this : "Those coming up with other solutions are providing a very valuable service...looking at the whole picture and not focusing on just one piece. " ..........................is simply not happening here! The "big pic" was not really considered. Most of those suggestions ignore Steve's original question AND are just offering an easy way out. Most have not thought about the design/ access/ aesthetic ramifications of " just make it a 15" trash or move the DW. Simply moving puzzle pieces around the imaginary graph paper is not good design - it's just a nursery school exercise facilitating Steve's designer's cop out.

Steve - what brand/model of DW are you getting? This could have a huge bearing on how the end panel is supported.

Our dishwasher is the end of the peninsula. We lowered the kneewall to give a fully studded frame for the stone to set on and had it clad in the cabinetry wood. It cost me 3 or 4 inches, but well worth it for supporting the stone.

Some of you really should consider your skill level when dispensing advise.

Oh yeow! ROTFLOL!
Dying of laughing here!
Another antss classic. One for the ages, to be sure.

FWIW, I totally agree with you. I'm just surprised that NYSteve hasn't been asked to share his home's entire floorplan, his preferences between woods, marbles and granites, and his cabinet brands all to adequately answer how best to properly handle the DW location.
(I'm sometimes uncertain how much is voyeurism and how much is helpfulness around here!) ;-)

Sorry Steve. The DW at the end is done quite regularly so hopefully you shouldn't have to innovate to realize this safely. Others have better information about shoring and bracing the panel, so I shan't toss in unnecessary 0-experience opinion here.
However, I will reaffirm your planned layout - I would not want a DW located in or so close to a corner either. That can be a headache. I don't understand what issues it causes at the stove but DWs in or close to corners are quite unfriendly.

You guys are hysterical!

It seems that each KD has his own quirks. This particular one also wanted the DW on the left because I am right-handed. This sorta makes sense, but not to me. I had to tell him that we really wanted it on the right, and then he came up with this DW end panel problem...

I'm quite convinced that we can make this work with a good installer. The GCs on our short list are all very solid people that either I or a close friend/neighbor has done lots of work with, and have a reputation for doing good quality work.... and for standing behind that work... so given that there is a reasonable way to make this work, I'm pretty confident it will all work out fine... without mucking with the design.

And I don't mind sometimes revisiting more basic assumptions as a way of analyzing a local problem.. Especially since lavendar_lass, buehl, and other GWers were helpful in the other threads where this design evolved.

But in case it matters... my favorite color is red. (No, wait... BLUE!) Does that change the preferred location of the DW? :)

FWIW...I also prefer the DW on the right...I was just trying to give Steve other options, just in case! (Hey, I'm the one that always tries to convince people not to put the DW b/w the range & sink!)

Usually I ignore certain types of comments, but occasionally I get uber-annoyed and post. (Hmmm....could it be the "timing")?

Sounds like your KD didn't count on you having a resource for a reality check.

Some more things I remember about the panel install....

The cabinet installers put a temporary brace across the front of the space so the top corner of the end panel would stay in place until the granite was installed.

Ceramic floor tile was cut around the panel instead setting it on top. This was recommended by the cabinet guys when they came out to measure.

The brace was removed for the DW install, then the granite went down that same day so the free edge of the panel was not exposed to bumping or moving. It took a little bit of coordination, but was no problem at all.

NYSteve - but do you know airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Oh come on macy...that's easy :oP 50 to 0 when they hit my windshield.

Mindstore...I meant that if someone was at the sink and the DW was open it impeeds the use of the stove area (and I only mentioned that because the set up with it swapped is exactly what we removed when we remodeled, not to even mention access to the cabinets being blocked).

Really Steve, IMO your question shouldn't be "is this an issue" because it's not (trust me...I can dance on top of the counters including the end panel area...and my DW is not attached in any way). But I do think you should think about doing a solid wood panel instead of MDF because of the steam and water associated with an open DW...and of course you did put an auto shut off valve in there right? :oP

What size is your big toe...that might factor in here.... heh heh

By the way...I forgot to provide pics...my DW is not only on the end, but it sticks out an inch from the end of the wall so it's totally hanging out there :) and still manages to function well because it's installed with bracing and l brackets inside the structure as well as screwed into the floor:

Ignore that nasty curled up rug at the sink lol

And yes, my counter won't split, it would bend, but either way, no diff...it's supported :) As yours will be.

You'll see my set up is much like your new one will be, aside from the fact I don't have room for that gorgeous island you have. I'm jealous!

Macybaby - What do you mean - an African or European swallow?

I have been confused for this entire thread.

3/4'' plywood is thick, heavy stuff. It can be secured to floor, wall, and counter using wood cleats or metal braces. If supporting the granite, it certainly will be secured. I don't understand what your KD is worried about.

I would consider the aesthetics of the end panel. I don't know what style the cabinetry is. Will you need a stile, a recessed center panel, etc, to make it look good? Will it look better with a paneled dishwasher?

hey mindstorm -

you forgot to tell him to he NEEDED to get his cabinets from IKEA !

Eh? Why would i do that? Does he have a low tolerance for pushy, self-important cabinet salesmen who insist they know what he needs better than he does? I didn't get that from the post. In which case: absolutely! :-)

Igloochic, LOL. You must use your kitchen the same way Buehl does. I don't have that problem as we don't leave the DW open for long durations any more than we leave drawers open for them to be a roadblock. Also don't multi-task so much in the kitchen that major loading/unloading of the DW happens concurrently with the cooking.
Of course, what gets my goat is appliances in corners. ;-)

because everyone around here recs them :^)

it was a veiled attempt at humor for a long running joke around here. Does anyone remember the satire someone wrote a few years ago about designing a kitchen with help from gardenwebbers ???

Igloochic: don't be jealous of the island... Look at your gorgeous view!

Thanks to everyone for the insights as to how to make this work.... And also for the humor. It's too easy to get crazed over every detail. This is, after all, supposed to be fun!

Never saw it, Antss. Can anyone post it, please?!

Steve, you hardly need more encouragement but, since I'm here, that's my setup and works great. My door open extends only about 24", leaving plenty of room to stroll back and forth.