Do you want to own the dog? Can you ask to buy her from him?

I was thinking the same thing.

The "problem" in the offer may be the co-owner. If the agreement of ownership is not on paper, as in a contract, things will be easier to manage.

So some polite and friendly conversation beforehand may help you figure out how to handle the situation.

I know many peeps here are not going to like what I have to write here. Most hunting dogs, police dogs, drug sniffing dogs and dogs working for the military live in kennels, often staying in those kennels for a week at a time. Although usually they get walked once a day at the very least. If you truly have seen the owner beat the dog or yell at it, I would suggest setting up a camera which can record the abuse. Then report it to the humane society. I get what you are doing, but you need to ask yourself a couple of questions.
Are you prepared for a long relationship with the puppy which might be terminated by the owner at any time? Are you willing to call the authorities if the dog(s) are being abused? Do you understand that in getting involved something can go wrong, even with a walk on a leash the puppy might get into trouble....which can impact your world in a number of ways - financially or with an uncomfortable living situation with your neighbor? These and other (devils advocate questions) are ones you might want to seriously consider before getting too involved.....I am one of those people who will call the Humane Society ANYTIME I see a dog in distress or being abused, to not say anything puts the dog in a potential world of hell. Having played Devils Advocate, maintaining a good relationship with the neighbor, and hopefully finding out more about the pup and its owners plans for its future is a good tact. I might suggest if you do offer to take the dog, you contact a breed specific rescue group to see if you can set up a new future possible home. You might also just invite the Humane officer to your home, and let them see what is going on and your concerns regardig the pup and what you have already witnessed. Good Luck, it is truly a sticky wicket you are in

My thoughts are the same as Mazer's. Many a working dog lives its life in a kennel, but they're usually going thru training at the same time. It doesn't sound like the guy has ever used the older dog for hunting, if he's hunting only deer and moose, so I doubt he has any plans to ever use the young pup for hunting. Your neighbor and the other owner may see the dog only as an investment and have intentions of selling it.....but hunting/working dogs of 'good breeding' usually receive early training and are sold as young pups. There are just a lot of unanswered questions regarding the long term plans for the dog.

In regards to the barking, Pointers don't tend to bark and they're bred to point, not retrieve.... so running for toys just isn't in their blood. :) Years ago we owned 2 pointers (they lived in the house with us) and they never barked or played with toys. They just waited for that daily run in the woods.
If you have good communication with the neighbor, ask why the dog has to wear the collar 24/7, especially since she's no longer around the older dog. Also let him know the danger of wearing it all the time is that it's possible for the collar to pick up other signals and shock the dog randomly. DS had this problem with kitchen appliances and the invisible fencing collars.

Thanks for the good advice.
Yes, Maza, a sticky wicket indeed. I have to be careful not to emotionalize this too much. Spent a sleepless night over this puppy and I can't let it fog my thinking.

I don't feel the pup is being abused. In my mind and experience, a pup should be with the family, playing and learning how to live with the 'pack.' In this case, the puppy is basically ignored and isolated from most things 'family.' I realize it will take a lot of time to make her a 'pet.' Do I want to take it on? Not sure I do.

He treats the dog like an object. But he does the same with the old dog. I've never seen him smile at them, play with either of them. He ignores them and the older dog just walks around the yard oblivious to him. The man never greets them or calls them by name. I see the pup get excited when he comes home from work. She jumps around and cries a bit. He totally ignores her.

So to me that's all very sad. I want to take her and make her happy and play with her. But the reality is she lives with him and its all she knows.

Annz, you are very correct. He does not do anything to train her for hunting. He spoke about getting quail feathers and putting them in a sock for her to track. But he does nothing and she's almost 7 months.

I've had dogs all my life. Many years ago we had Irish Setters (2) and they were a handful and we were young. We lived in NYC and both worked so the dogs were cooped up all day in an apartment. Then we'd take them to the park and walk them for hours. They were not a good breed for City living. We eventually bought a house in a suburb with a lot of land for the dogs. I laugh thinking back to it because the dogs were the reason we moved.

Setters were retrievers and pointers. They went after birds and thought of little else. They were not fit for family living except they loved kids and all the energy. They would have been happier living with people who spent a lot of time outdoors.

I then got involved with rescue and had many different breeds but settled on working breeds because I liked how trainable they were. Up until 3 years ago we had Rotties and I miss having dogs in my life but know the realities.

I don't know English Setters. She's a pretty girl, very animated and lively. Full of energy and should be out working.

You are right about the barking. The old dog rarely barks and when he does it sounds like a low ruff, ruff. Not a true bark. When we first moved next door, I thought he had the dog debarked. That's how it sounds.

The pup digs and digs. She got into his plants and that is when he hit her. He only told me about it because he thought I saw him. I did, but didn't say anything. He is sort of 'old school' about the dogs. He hits instead of correcting. He's not hurting the dog, but he's scaring her. She yelps when he hits but I don't think he is hurting her. While I was there, she was jumping all over and very excited to see me and be out of the pen. He grabbed her and told her to sit, sit, sit! He then wacked her on the rear and forced her to sit. She yelped. She becoming hand shy understandably. But its his way and I'm not going to take him on.

I'll spend time with her and see how it goes. I'll try to take her for walks each day. I might see if he'll let me bring her to my house and I can get a feel for her.

Sorry for this long post. Your advice is helpful and I need to keep myself grounded. I only wish the co-owner would come and see that he's doing nothing with this dog. Maybe she'd take her.

Jane

This just sounds so sad to me. Dogs (and other animals) need love, affection and attention, not being imprisoned in a backyard and ignored, like inanimate lawn ornaments. It sounds like this guy does not have any interest in the dogs at all and considers them a burden.

Maybe it would help to ask him why he wanted the dogs and if he regrets taking them in and, if it turns out he does not really want them, getting a breed rescue involved so they can be re-homed. If prodded tactfully, he might feel comfortable enough to admit he is not cut out to take care of pets and be willing to surrender them.

I know lots of folks have a real utilitarian view of dogs...but it's troubling that he's not even training her for hunting. Why go to all the bother of breeding to lock the dog up in the back yard and ignore her? Also, it sounds like he does hit her...maybe not all the time, but that sucks. Maybe you could get some photographic evidence of that. Right now, her life sounds so lonely and sad.

As for working dawgs, here in my city, police dogs go home with their officer, and enjoy a home life.

Jane, you sound like a kind person, a good neighbor and a someone with good common sense. I wish that made things easier for you but sadly, it never does. You seem to have a good understanding of the dog's plight and the neighbor's own shortcomings. You are willing to help. You've worked with rescues and rescue dogs before so you get what it takes to train and socialize a dog. Go with your strengths. You sound like a godsend for this dog.

If this dog is co-owned, there may well be a paper contract with plenty of strings attached. In these cases, often the co-owner has at least an equal say over what will happen to the dog and there may be other considerations. Is the dog from show or working lines? Is there a requirement that she be shown or that she achieve certain working titles? How does the breeder figure into this? Many times, breeders have the right of first refusal should the dog not be able to stay with its owner and/or co-owner. These dogs are looked at as an investment of a sort. The puppies they produce will help carry on the breeder's line as well as be the foundation for the new owner's line. What I'm saying is that this dog may not be viewed as a pet by either her owner and co-owner or by her breeder. In fact, the idea to use a shock collar may well have come from the breeder or co-owner. They may have multiple dogs themselves and the collar has made it easier for them to keep the noise level acceptable to the neighbors. Just a guess. Breed rescue will likely not be a consideration at this point unless breeder, co-owner and owner decide to release her to a rescue group. Very unlikely.

As for reporting animal abuse- One of the things that it helps to know is what constitutes abuse/neglect under the law and ordinances in your area. This varies from state to state and even from county to county sometimes. I know that for my area, nothing that your neighbor does would constitute abuse. She has food water and shelter. There is no physical damage. A call to the authorities might result in someone coming to check on the dog but it would change nothing about her care and would probably alienate your neighbor and prevent the dog from receiving whatever help you can give her. It sounds like you want to avoid that and I think you're wise.

In my experience, extremely well-educated professional types can be the hardest to reach when helping people learn to train their dog. For whatever reason, they are unlikely to seek out help. Maybe they're embarrassed that they need it. It might really help the dog if you work with her on basic manners; come, sit, down, stay and walk nicely on a leash. It will make her life better if she has these skills when she is around your neighbor. Once she has mastered these things, show him what she learned and show him how to get the same results. It might help them build a better partnership.

Dogs who have never had toys or treats have no idea what to do with them. If it were me, I'd make some time to introduce her to them. It makes training so much easier when you have a useful reward and easier training may mean that your neighbor might be more likely to try it in place of using the shock collar.

This is much longer than I meant it to be. Good luck to you. I hope for good things ahead for you, the dog and your neighbor.

Kess4353, you hit it on the head and I appreciate your civility. This is a difficult situation and I'm the 'unfortunate' neighbor.

I took the pup for a walk at about 6pm today because I knew she was locked up in the pen since early this morning. I was angry at the isolation and seeing this young dog alone with nothing to do, no toys, no nothing. Its very disturbing to me because I know the damage it will do and is already doing.

I walked over, let myself into his yard with my leash and just took her out of the pen. I walked with her (flying through the air in every direction) and rang his doorbell and when he appeared I told him I was taking the pup for a walk.

He said, 'oh thank you very much, I've been so busy I haven't had time to deal with her.' I was tugged away by the pup and just said, 'see you later.'

Took her for a walk or rather she took me. She is totally untrained and she wears a nylon, flat collar which doesn't give me good control. She is literally bouncing off the walls, trees, etc.

I don't want to get into the whole story, but the collar is too big and she will not take treats. I attempted to leash train her, but she's just too distracted by everything around her. The collar is wrong and she needs some individual training alone with less distractions.

My big problem is her refusal of any treats. I went to Petco and bought a variety of dog training treats, from totally natural to frozen. She refused everything. She will not take anything from my hand including squeaky toys.

Very odd. I've never run into this. She also seems oblivious to me completely unless I give her a strong leash correction and force her to sit. She then will look at me. My main objective was to get some eye contact and connection with her.

After a long walk in the Florida heat, I had a bit more control over her. I let her run around on leash, investigate things and run off some energy, but did not want to bring her back until I started some leash training.

My feeling (which my husband disagrees) is to bring her to my house and work with her in my yard. My husband thinks the owner will not like this and its a real possibility.

At this point, I need to understand why she will not take treats from me or even a toy. Its hard to train a dog when you have few rewards. I tried the 'good girl, petting, patting, scratching,' but she's too distractable. I need more eye attention. I need a way to get her to watch me. I need her around me more.

Any hints would be appreciated. I've trained dogs in the past. I know how to do it but what worked for me before is not working with this pup. My guess is I need her around me more or to get the owner to follow up.

Jane

Hi Jane, I think what you are trying to do is wonderful. I feel very sorry for any dog in such a situation where they are penned up with nothing to do. Have had dogs in our family my whole life and love them dearly.

My son has a dog that is a mix of black lab and something else. He's had her since a puppy, she was a rescue dog. She is very lucky and well loved, but he did have to work and leave her home for long stretches when he was living far from home with no one to watch her and it created some separation anxiety for the dog. When he moved back closer to home, we then got to see the dog regularly and I've been able to take the dog when he has worked.

The first few weeks he left her with me, she had a lot of anxiety and crying, whining, pacing. I would talk to her and she seemed to desperately want to tell me what was on her mind, [g] but would still not relax. I decided to try to give her some more training and I used little bits of cooked chicken. What dog can resist cooked meat? Worked great. You could try that. Very small pieces will go a long way. I didn't keep that up for long, she did respond to voice commands and has a pretty good vocabulary at this point and is very interested in pleasing people.

I find with any animal, the key is patience and observation to try to understand the animal and take them where they are at and give them what they need and they will respond hopefully in a positive way, but in their own way to a degree too.

You've gotten a lot of good advice, the only thing I can add, is to try to have a chance to casually discuss the dog with your neighbor to find out more about his plans. It sounds like he is very happy for you to walk the dog, which should work in your favor and shows that he does have some concern for the dog's well being.

I wish you a lot of luck with your situation. I hope it all works out great for all of you. Would love to hear updates about how the situation develops.

This post was edited by prairiemoon2 on Tue, Apr 1, 14 at 23:26

Thank you prairiemoon2, your son was lucky to have you nearby.

This dog will not take anything from my hand. I tried toys, squeaky toys, treats. I talk in a high voice, 'good puppy, what a good puppy,'
she gets excited but as soon as I put the toy or treat near her she backs up. She will sniff the treat but backs away and refuses it even when I drop it on the ground. She will not go near it. Very odd.

Tried squeaking the toys, throwing them, etc. She will run toward them but back away from them.

Not sure what this is about.

Jane

On the leash issue. Play with her for about an hour or so BEFORE you take her on a walk, a tired dog is much easier to train. Call her by her name and talk to her alot while you are walking her, that way she will be easier to train. Dogs that are not food or toy oriented are harder to train, but it sounds like she has confidence and is eager, both good signs. Keep up the good works, but know things can change in this case in an instant. PS If you do find out who the co-owner is, you might want to think about contacting them to find out what the future holds for this pup. Good Luck.

I wonder if she would like human food treats. My dog isn't too fond of treats, refuses most of them, but a small piece of string cheese or chicken is always taken.

Make sure you keep the owner informed of everything you are doing so he cannot complain about anything! Lucky pup to have you for a neighbor. Best wishes for success. It will be slow.

Hello Jane,

You are a wonderful, caring neighbor and the best thing I believe, to have happened to this pup. Please keep on doing what you're doing and take one step at a time. I believe you already have great advice in this post. Please keep us posted with future updates. Wishing you great things ahead with this situation.

Jane, I've heard of this before years ago from someone who did German Shorthair Pointer rescue. I wish that I had kept her correspondence and maintained contact but coulda, shoulda, woulda... She worked with dogs that had been kept in outdoor kennels for years and had minimal human contact. Some may have been used to hunt but it wasn't enough to develop a bond with people. Can you see if there's a pointer rescue board or website? Oftentimes the people there have dealt with your problem and may have some creative solutions.

In the meantime, use what you have. One thing that has worked for me in dealing with dogs who don't want treats or toys is to make myself the doorway to all things they do want. If she would like to get out of her kennel, have her sit and make eye contact first, even for an instant. If she wants to go through the gate, same deal. I would make "sit" be her "please" and "thank you". I would keep the walks short. I would try to find ways to get her to watch you instead of you watching her. Change speed and direction constantly. Stop and start suddenly. Suddenly walk in a circle. Make it her responsibility to watch you and keep out of your way. Don't be afraid to bump into her if she is in your path. It won't hurt her and it will help her remember that you are the one who is choosing the direction you'll walk. Keep walks short for now. They are a reward and you won't be rewarding inattentiveness. Also, this is very wearing on the handler! If you can get through to her in the beginning, eventually it will get better. More importantly, she will begin to see you as relevant.

I am concerned about your safety walking a dog that size that is that unruly. Is there any way you can gain access to a different collar, maybe a head halter? It may help you gain a little more control until she's better trained.

If you are already bringing your own leash to her, why not get a more appropriate collar for walking her?

It is really nice of you to care about this dog's welfare.

You have all be so helpful. Kes, I used your ideas regarding making myself the gateway to fun...and opening the pen.

Okay, found a treat she will take, American Cheese. I'm used to big dogs who would take half your hand off, but she gingerly takes the cheese, no gusto! But she did take it as does the old dog, but again with great hesitation.

I've just been looking on line to see if I could find info on this breed as there are so many aspects to her personality (as well as the old dog) that I'm not familiar with and haven't seen in dogs I've worked with in the past. For instance, she will take the cheese, but very slowly, her lips quiver as if she's afraid to touch my skin. Very odd to me. So, she takes the treat, but I'm not sure how effective it will be for training. She will drop pieces and not pick them up. Doesn't appear hungry.

Neither dog seems to really bark or cry. I'm accustomed to dogs showing excitement when they are penned and you walk toward them. Nothing but silence with her. She will not jump on me. She will jump up and down like on springs, but does not touch me. Not used to that either.

Have been taking her out at least once a day. Its a bit uncomfortable as I'm not sure how her owner is truly feeling about it. I always ring the bell and ask but when he is not there, I walk over and play with her in the yard. Today, I took her out twice.

Anyone old enough to remember Hitchcocks 'Rear Window'? Sort of how I feel.

Jane

Cute doggy, I can see why she is stealing your heart.

Aw, she's a cutie! Really don't have much to add here, just wanted to say bless you for the time and effort you're putting in to help keep this doggie healthy/happy.

Don B.

What would you recommend for a proper collar? My hands are raw tonight from the lead cutting into my hands. She is bouncing in every direction. I asked the man if I could bring her to my yard to work with her in private. He said I could.

I need a recommendation on a collar which will give me more control. I've always used chain, choke collars on my Rotts but that collar seems to have fallen out of favor.

Thanks,
Jane

This sweet girl is a real beauty! As a huge animal lover, i want to thank you for caring so much for this precious dog. I beg you to try and get this dog away from it's lonely and sad situation. I'm very concerned that her lousy owner is breaking her spirits and her heart. Please take action. She deserves someone like you to love her and be her special human. Please keep us posted. Best of luck!

She is adorable. But aren't pointers bred to be quiet in their jobs? They point out the birds, but don't try to run and get them? Her kennel is a decent size and if that is all she's ever known, she may not be as unhappy as you think. Of course she's missing out on the fun and closeness we wish for all dogs and I hope you can show her that and make her a well rounded, fun loving dog.

I had a rescue collie/beagle mix and he had no idea what toys were. Or bones either. I would buy them and he would just look at me. I would toss a ball and he might run up to it, but then he didn't have any interest in continuing to do that. So this is all to say, it's all in what breed they are and how they are raised in their early years. A terrier will chase a ball and bring it back until YOU want to run away, LOL, but other breeds have no interest in it.

I do hope you are able to teach her how to walk well on a leash. That was a very bad oversight on the part of her owner not to teach that and also socialize her at a young age.

I think you are on the right track. And hopefully one of these more knowledgeable people can recommend a good collar to make your walks more enjoyable.

Good for you and good luck.

Hi Jane,

She's a pretty dog, isn't she. I can see how she might have caught your eye. She looks happy and relaxed in all the pictures that you posted. I think that she's learning to associate you with good things. That's going to help.

Use the collar that is most comfortable for you, that is safe for both you and the dog and that will help her learn to walk without pulling. There is nothing wrong with a chain collar if it is fitted properly and used by someone who knows how to use it. It isn't a collar for a novice but you are experienced and comfortable with its use. Head halters require a learning curve, too and can be misused, as can pinch collars, although neither of these are inherently bad in the hands of someone who knows how to use them. When you are able to talk with some pointer rescue people, they may have a better suggestion but in the meantime, go ahead and use a chain collar if that's what works best for you.

Jane, you're already starting to make a difference and it shows. Keep going, you're doing great!

I like the martingale collars especially since they come as nylon+chain or all nylon. I find they work well in controlling a dog, release quickly and there is less chance of causing damage to the dogs throat.

She's a healthy looking dog but I feel you need to find out what his plans are for her. If hunting is in her future the worst thing you could do right now is teach her to run after something. For starters, it's not part of her genetic makeup to chase something but more importantly the worst thing she could ever do in the field is to break point and run after game. Many a hunter will get rid of a dog that continues to break point......and I don't mean 'find it a new home'.
If you can't get any definitive answers from the guy then continue to exercise and play with her, but I would not try teaching her to chase/retrieve toys.

Here is a link that might be useful: martingale collar

She's beautiful! I'm glad you're taking her out and befriending her.

Thank you for helping this dog. I wish you and her all the best.

Thanks for all the support. I've wanted to write back but have been busy with 'life.'

Annz, thanks for the info. I went to a small pet shop nearby and asked about the collar. She had them but they were $35.00. I couldn't pay that as I know he wouldn't go for that. I found a similar collar for $8.00 and bought it. Same problem, I couldn't control her pulling. I went to Petco and bought a small chain collar. I seem to have better control but I haven't walked her in the street yet.

I've been trying to do some leash training, but she's very distractable and difficult to walk. She is literally bouncing off the walls. I decided to work on just establishing a relationship with her at this point. The training can wait.

The owner went away for a week and hired a girl to walk and feed the dogs. He asked if I could fill in as the girl had to go out of town for the last 3 days. I did.

I spent the time bringing her to my yard and letting her in my house. I did little training as I want her to settle down and get a feel for me. I bought her toys and treats and she kept herself busy.

My observation is a very high-energy dog. Not focused and difficult to get her attention. She is also quite spooky, things scare her easily. I run into this on the street but I saw it in my house and yard. I realize she has been isolated and feel she is getting a bit better in that regard. She buries and digs. Digs, digs. If I give her a treat, she runs out to the yard and buries it immediately. Same with toys. Digs a hole and buries it.

She's a carrier. She picks things up and refuses to let them go. Walks around with various things in her mouth. Its cute unless its something you don't want her to have.

Seems to not know the most basic words, such as NO! No clue.

Her activity level is very high. Its hard to settle her down.

Anna, you mention not playing with balls, etc. What do I play with? If I don't throw something there's nothing to do?

I bought a Frisbee and she likes chasing that and carrying it around (that took a week before she'd go near it). Now she chases it.

I bought a beach ball and try to play soccer with her, (my old dogs used to love playing that). She chases the ball but hasn't learned to knock it back.

Anyway, that's the update. The owner is back and I can't find a way to talk with him. He says little and I don't know where he's at. Doesn't answer questions, just shakes his head or says something like, 'I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.'

Meantime, she's coming into heat. I know the signs and the old dog has been flirting with her all week. What a nightmare! But he doesn't say anything when I bring that up. Just shakes his head.

So, shes been locked in her pen all day, she is very quiet (surprised), as she would cry for me all week when she saw me. Now that he's back, she's quiet.

I told him I'd be over later to walk her. He said, 'great.'

Jane