Okay...JUST got done putting the new ones in bought on clearance a month or so ago. THOSE were the ones I was really concerned with because they aren't established. Here's all the info. I don't think I ever told the whole story. It's a raised bed about 6" high. Built it Nov/Dec before all this cold. We had too much rain and too muddy to plant in regular garden so figured, hmmmm -- "raised bed" -- stick new plants in, throw in DRY soil around them and good to go. BUT -- sh-t happens, THAT never happened, & I ended up with my current problem. That being said, I guess there's some variables that might come into play with what you guys have to say. These ARE new plants from big box stores which gardengal's info seems to relate to -- young roots on outer part of rootball are vulnerable. And I noticed them (fresh roots) when I planted them. BTW, great wealth of info, gardengal. TKS !!! And BTW, all the rootballs were very wet. One had that that funky, too much water stench. Msk3 -- I get what you're saying, too. Somewhere else on this site (before I got myself into this trouble & was looking for solutions) there was a post all about overwintering pots outside, on their sides for drainage, etc. and people seem to do it all the time. But it was mainly Northern areas and I got confused because I don't really know what 'overwintering' is with regards to doing it ouside??? Does that mean you dig up established plants?? And, not coming from your sort of weather (I see youre in MI with lots of snow, Im sure) -- why do you do it versus just leaving them in the ground? I'm not being a smart-ass, just uninformed. Because I CAN see where that may make a difference (established plant vs- new in pot). Around here, snow is such a big deal that the city shuts down. Literally. I'm serious. So plants around here are 'sissy' plants...ha ha ha. Does snow have anything to do with it? So mxk3, you could help me understand more by explaining about overwintering and why its necessary for you? TKS !! You can even email me if you wanna. NOW, for my current dilemma -- I was able to put plants in bed with an inch of existing tilled soil mixed with store bought (bagged) compost/manure. BUT -- didn't have enough soil to fill whole bed and cover plants properly. So I teased out bottom roots (and with some, pulled off a chunk of soggy roots) dug down 1" or so, set into place then dumped what little soil/manure compost I had into the bed and mounded enough around each one so crowns & entire root ball is covered. The mound is about 3 - 4" wider in circumference than the root ball. Had hoped that was enough protection. Soooo.considering all that these plants have been thru, should I still go back out there and fill the bed with leaves? They arent mulched leaves. Just raked up leaves. I ask because presently, it's only 32 (30 on Weather Channel) but we are expecting snow (ha ha...maybe, since we never get it this close to the beach. But it DID snow a little before Xmas). Tomorrow it will be warmer, but will drop into high 20's in evening for next few evenings. However, tomorrow I plan to get more dirt, mix with my many bags of compost/manure (that I 'thought' I could use in place of soil) and fill in the whole garden, weather permitting. Pretty much, these plants are planted properly but just with spaces in between each one. Didnt want to use my mulch yet since I still need to put more dirt in the entire bed. Right now, it looks like what I imagine groundhog mounds look like (I dont have that problem, so I dont know.???) All this being said (& I apologize for it being so long) what do you guys think NOW?? Especially about putting the leaves down? Gardengal...I'm really thinking about what your info said about how I won't see the effects until AFTER things start growing (or not growing). As it stands, the foliage is still alive and healthy. But I see what you mean about the root damage. It's like hitting your fingernail with a hammer. It looks fine until it starts to grow out and then it can be funky for 6 mos. to a year...ha ha ha.

Sit down with paper and pencil and plan your day ahead of time. Write down in the order of time needed to cook each item, and when to put onto the fire, or in oven, so everything is ready and hot to put on the table at the same time. Take care not to overcook your veggies. I cook my vegetables just to the very brink of doneness; pull off of the heat; put a lid on the pot and allow to finish cooking on their own. Then when you are ready to put the vegetables into the serving dishes they will be cooked just right and not overcooked. (It took me a while to "catch wise" to this method....I had a tendancy to overcook!) Then post your schedule on the fridge door, or a spot where you can easily refer to the list as you work.

You can order a fresh one and then you will not have to wait for it to thaw. If you are planning to do the "dry salt" method of roasting, you will need to pick it up on Monday, November 19 to start the salting process. Personally, I am not cooking a whole turkey this year. If you wanted to dry salt a frozen turkey, you would need to start thawing it on Sunday at the latest. Lars

Just as an aside - the man who had a heart attack would have applied for disability, which is NOT welfare. And which he had undoubtedly paid into in the form of Social Security taxes all the years that he did work. The amount he would have collected would have been a fraction of what he made during his working years. I am on disability myself - and I'm sure there are many others on this list who are as well. We are not deadbeats or layabouts, and we are not raking in undeserved huge piles of cash. We are getting by, by and large, and some people don't even manage that on disability. The man could not have received "welfare" as even when it existed it was not paid out to men. But aside from that - back to the original subject. Frankly I would have been quite up-front about telling someone who offered to bring a frozen turkey that they should either bring a COOKED turkey, or bring something else - also already fully prepared. Seriously, any adult should know better. "It's too much trouble for ME to make a turkey, but I'll dump this onerous task that I can't do on someone else" - that's just not acceptable. You know that nearly every grocery store in the country offers fully cooked and hot turkeys through their deli departments, if nothing else. So they could still buy a fully cooked turkey if they didn't know how to cook one themselves. I would have had no qualms whatsoever about telling someone, politely, with a big smile even, that only a COOKED bird was acceptable, and then offer alternatives for things they could bring instead. On the other side of the equation - the host doing something obnoxious instead of one of the guests - one year a fellow grad student offered to make Thanksgiving dinner - and then charged every one a fee PLUS required us to bring something. Needless to say I never attended a dinner at that person's house again! I figure she cleared at least $50 on that deal, plus kept all the leftovers. I found out about this in the car on the way over there. Too late by far to back out, and we had to stop at a grocery on the way so we could all buy something "to bring" - selected from a very specific list which she had provided (at the last minute) to one of the other students. Had I known in advance about the "to bring", I'd have made something. Had I known in advance about the fee, I'd have bowed out entirely. That's the other side of rude dinner party behaviour, LOL! Thanksgiving is no longer stressful for me as I stopped doing it the year my son (now 29) was born. I was one day out of the hospital, he was 3 days old, and the entire family (and all their kids and various and sundry significant others) descended on me with their usual ridiculously high expectations. Nobody brought anything, they all knew I was less than 24 hours out of the hospital after childbirth, nobody even OFFERED to bring anything. They all sat down and proceeded to gripe about every. single. thing. They were particularly incensed that there were no home-made rolls (I had bought good-quality dinner rolls) and no pumpkin pie (which I have never made in my life anyway, including for all the 20 preceding family Thanksgiving dinners). They complained about the lack of cranberry relish, another item which I have never willingly made and certainly hadn't made in the 8 years since leaving home as an adult. I spent 2 days preparing a huge feast, and then I spent the entire Thanksgiving "celebration" inundated with nitpicking and whining. In 20 years, I had done every Thanksgiving dinner - since I was 6 years old - by myself except for 2. And they KNEW I was pregnant and due to deliver sometime in late November/early December. The fact that I was 10 days early had things gone according to "plan" doesn't help, as if I HADN'T been early, I'd have been hugely pregnant and about to pop while still having to make dinner for 12 ingrates. So, that was the last bird day for me, and no one else ever bothered to do a family holiday meal ever again (keeping in mind I nearly always did Xmas meals as well for the family). Sometimes one sister would do a mini-family meal, where she would pointedly NOT invite certain of the rest of the siblings - and she always wondered why my dad boycotted those meals. He didn't want to go unless the WHOLE family was there. Otherwise he knew he would have to listen to hours of sniping by those present against the unfavored remainder of his offspring, LOL! I take that back, I did do bird day one more time - when my dad was in his late 80's. Nobody but the sister who was living with him and mooching off him bothered to show up - until the next day, when some of them swung by just long enough to grab leftovers and complain about there not being any turkey (my dad hates turkey and had asked for a ham) or any pumpkin pie. Talk about gall, LOL!