Well welcome back! I cannot believe the babies are almost 3. Good luck on selling your house. Be prepared. I was shocked at what people want today. They want a brand new house, with everything absolutely perfect. No mater the house's age. At the time I listed my house it was almost 10 years old and custom built. Solid wood cabinets in the kitchen, baths, and laundry room. New carpet and completely repainted. It was referred to as "dated". In my life time I have owned 6 homes. I never expected the seller to provide me with my desires as to decorating. Like granited and stainless appliances. I have bought homes that had no appliances.

Greetings on Nevada Day. I think it's Nevada Day.

Oh JNM this sounds very hard :-( I can understand why you can't move past it, for now anyway. When you give so much to a person, and they poo all over it, it comes to a point where you've just had enough. It's not that you don't want to reach out/try again/make the effort/put the energy in/etc etc; it's just that you can't anymore. Right? I really understand that and there's nothing wrong with it, don't feel guilty or bad about it! The apology that your SD should give you is a big deal to me; when you do something wrong and you know it, you should apologise. No need to tiptoe around SD and let it slide, why would she have a different set of rules apply to her? Because there's bigger fish to fry? Because of BM? No way. SD knows she's wrong, she'll need to make it right. A heartfelt apology is a good start, and essential if you ask me. My SD15 cannot apologise either, she has never apologised for anything, ever. Over the past year she's done the wrong thing by us several times; loving it when we run around for her, and running back to BM's whenever she doesn't get her way. I haven't posted much about it, because what is there to say about it..really. As long as BM encourages this behavior (this is our situation) SD will not see the need to change. She can run away from problems, go there if something doesn't suit overhere, no need to own up, apologise, nothing. When she comes back she pretends all is good again, just because time has passed. And by the way; we should be thankful for her visit.. One of the biggest reasons that FDH and BM got divorced is because they were never able to work anything out. Any problem they had remained unresolved, so stuff piled up which created bigger problems. BM is not capable of looking at her own behavior, the part she might own in a problem, nothing is ever her fault and an apology is something she only wishes to receive, not give. (This has a lot to do with mental disorder). It was her way or the highway, and that is just not realistic. SD15 seems to adopt the same attitude, maybe because of BM's example, maybe because of situation (2 homes to play out against eachother). Not to say it's all because of BM though, because SD knows very well that BM's behavior is completely unacceptable, selfish and self-destructive. We have also had plenty meaningful conversations just like you guys. SD's understanding of the dynamics even impressed us, but she still continues to behave this way. Therefore we know that she 'owns' it, blaming BM is not going to fly, just like it doesn't with your SD. I'm also at a point where I find it hard to keep going. I want to stay engaged and make the effort, try and talk with SD's, be there for them, guide them, poor energy into all of it, and I too cannot seem to give it at the moment. I've given this a lot of thought because I don't want to give the skids the wrong message. There's a big difference between a bit of disengaging and 'turning your back on them' and I don't want them to misunderstand what's happening here. It's not that I don't care anymore, it's that I don't agree with what they are doing. I cannot change it, I cannot force SD15 to apologise or to behave different, but I can choose my own response to that. So I've decided I do what I normally do (as in tasks around the house) but I keep to myself and I'm not running around anymore. It's simple; I don't owe them anything. If they make an effort to treat us better, I'll go above and beyond for them as well. If not, then I will perform my daily tasks as normal, but nothing more. I don't walk around angry, I just do my own thing and I'm not getting very involved in things they do. They come, they go, that's it. I used to put up with a lot more when they were younger; they were manipulated by BM, they did not understand, I had to try and be the bigger person and suck it up for their sake. But not anymore; now they are old enough, they need to own their own choices and they need to realise that a relationship goes both ways. If they don't invest, then I'm not going to be in it anymore either. I wonder if your SD will be back, I can see where you're coming from when you say you don't think so. How are your boys doing now that SD is out of the house? You gave the impression that they aren't affected by it too much, not in a negative way anyway?

I don't think he's been here since the infamous Houzz kerfuffle. It may be that other forums had fewer issues than we did. I hate to lose anyone, and I wish Virginia would consider returning now that the worst of our problems seems to have resolved.