sally2- I don't think I ever said "kefir from the store isn't good enough", it's just not anything close to being the same thing as making it yourself with real kefir grains. It's like saying powdered mashed potatoes are just like eating real, peeled, boiled mashed potatoes. Commercially-produced kefir is a fruity, sugared version that includes some of the good bacteria. It would be impossible to use the traditional fermentation process we do at home on a commercial scale. They just like to make you THINK it's the same thing. Real kefir grains are used over and over for each batch and grow and make more kefir grains. It's a living thing packed with many more varieties of good bacteria and yeasts (30) needed to ferment milk (or water with water kefir grains) than they use for commercially-produced kefir. There is also a powdered starter - Yogourmet Kefir Starter - and once again, it's not the real thing and only has a couple types of bacteria necessary for fermentation. This is the product I first used until I found a source for the real kefir grains. How to get kefir grains....person-to-person. You normally get them from someone else who has them. I went on-line and found a source here in Kansas. I paid a small amount for them, plus shipping. There are some web sites that sell dehydrated kefir grains (the real deal, just dried), I just don't have any personal experience with them and can't suggest one. -Grainlady Here is a link that might be useful: Kefir - Wickipedia

It sounds like your venture worked well. You may want to try this.... Check your yogurt after 3 hours, gently giggle the mixture to see if it is firm. If not firm, let stand one more hour and check it again, then every half-hour after that. Refrigerate it as soon as it is done and don't use it for at least 6-hours. It will continue to thicken as it chills. Once you have a strong starter and a good source of milk, the length of time it takes to ferment depends on the three T's. - Temperature you heated the milk to (between 190-210-degrees F.). - Temperature for adding the starter - 105-120-degrees F. When you add the starter on the cooler side of the temperature window, the yogurt will be more mild than if you add it towards the warmer side of the temperature window. -Temperature for incubating - This temperature can range from 105-120-degrees F. Temperatures over 120-degrees F will destroy the bacteria. You can take the remaining Greek Yogurt and freeze it in portions for future yogurt sessions. Thaw it in the refrigerator before using for making another batch. You can also save a portion of your new batch to use as a starter, but it will eventually get weaker with subsequent batches until you will need a new starter. Whey is a very healthy part of yogurt, and you can expect it to separate from the curd during a long fermentation session, or if you stir or disturb the curd by cutting into it with a spoon and then letting it sit again. I love the whey from kefir and use it to make lemonade. It's a great thirst quencher during these horribly hot days. I use whey for lacto-fermentation of grains. You'll find more information about the whey in the link below. After decades of making yogurt, I moved on to the much simpler and better for you kefir. I drain the curd from kefir and use it as a substitute for cream cheese (as well as sour cream, plain yogurt, and in the liquid form as a substitute for buttermilk), and you can do the same thing with yogurt. The greatest portion of the whey drains off the yogurt the first hour. If you let yogurt drain for only 5-10 minutes, a cup of yogurt gives up 25% of it's volume in 5-minutes; a pint gives up 18% and a quart only 12%. -Drained Yogurt: Drained about 10-minutes. -Thick Yogurt: Drained at least 30-minutes. It will thicken, but still be soft - but won't retain its shape on a flat surface or the mark of a finger indentation. One hour is ideal for draining. -Yogurt Cheese: Yogurt that has drained for 8-hours or longer. It is the consistency of cream cheese, will hold its shape and retain the mark of a finger indentation. -One quart of yogurt will yield approximately 1-1/3 c. of yogurt cheese (about 2 c. of whey is drained off.) One quart of yogurt will yield about 2-1/2 c. of thick yogurt (about 1-1/4 c. of whey is drained off). Adding non-fat dry milk along with your milk will increase the protein and calcium and also results in a thicker yogurt. There are recipes where you can also add gelatin to help make a firm curd. The gelatin also adds protein. If you use reconstituted powdered milk as your only milk source, you can skip the step where you heat the milk. Just add warm water to the powdered milk to the temperature you need for adding the starter. By altering the ingredients - milk only, OR milk + powdered milk, OR milk + powdered milk and gelatin, it will determine whether your yogurt is soft, firm, or very firm. Make yogurt with half and half or cream and you have a lovely, rich, yogurt to use for desserts with fruit, or make into ice cream. You can also make yogurt with evaporated milk or add sweetened condensed milk for making sweetened yogurt. Another "secret" ingredient in yogurt making is to add cornstarch for a smoother and creamier finished product. -Grainlady Here is a link that might be useful: Benefits of Yogurt Whey

Thank you all so much. I already see some of my issues. bumblebeez, you answered my question on volume. I see the cost savings when you get equal amounts of yogurt from the milk used. My problem was I used a quart of milk and got only about a cup and half of yogurt. And not very good yogurt at that! I used about 2 tablespoons of dry milk to the quart of fat free milk. The taste may have been because of "incorrect" incubating. Or something else I did wrong. Grainlady, thank you for the tips. I have not checked the temperature in the oven with the light so that could have been the problem. I use the oven for rising yeast bread and it works wonderfully, so....I thought.... will check the temp with a thermometer. Made several other mistakes, I stirred my yogurt as soon as I thought it was done. Did not refrigerate first, just stirred and drained. And lost most of it. Will retain the whey next time. I thought it was good stuff but not sure so I let it go down the drain. Never again! Thanks for the info on using the whey. Annie, I read the "yogurt tread" and that is what got me going in the first place. I did use a fresh organic storebought yogurt for the starter, Stoneyfield, so my starter was good. I also used organic fat free milk. I am going to try using canning jars next time instead of a bowl. Armed with this new info, I will try again. In the meantime, I did discover Greek yogurt and just love it. Seems it is everywhere in the grocery stores now. Publix is even carrying the Fage brand, which I have not seen in this area before. Or just missed it somehow. If I don't have any success, maybe Grainlady will post and tell us how to make kefir?? You said it was easier than yogurt. :) or I maybe I can talk bumblebeez into making for me, I think we are sort of neighbors....upstate SC LOL Will post my results. Again thank you for the responses. Murphy

Dannon makes a whole-milk plain yogurt in quarts. It can be hard to find, though; sometimes it's hidden among the low-fat ones. Since it's a major brand, though, I bet you can find it somewhere near you. Greek yogurt is also increasingly available. I'd thin it with water for an Indian marinade. Whole milk yogurt is very different from low-fat, or worse, non-fat. They have (disgusting, IMO) thickeners added. But... for a marinade, low-fat should be okay. Add a little sour cream or plain cream or half-and half. Some of the spice flavors are carried in fats, so you want to get the fat content back up there somehow.