all the training in the world will not ease your mind. once a dog has shown this behavior, whether or not you *think* you can trust him is irrelevant. you will never be 100% confident around him.

don't feel bad about taking him back. i would agree with your decision, absolutely.

many years ago, i had this very same thing happen. had i not been home when it did, i am thoroughly convinced the dog would likely have killed my husband.

several months ago, i added a second great dane to my pack. she was fine for about 3 weeks. then out of nowhere, she started attacking my senior great dane. i ended up having to crate her every minute she was not right at my side and even then, if my old girl so much as walked into the room, the new dog would bristle. i called my rescue people and they told me that obviously, she was not a good match for us and they gladly took her back.

people will tell you the dog needs more training and perhaps i could have worked it out with my own situation but i am not a dog trainer and i was not willing to take the chance that something awful would happen.

i realize dogs aren't throw away items and i felt bad that this girl didn't work out but trust me, there is a dog out there for you that WILL work and there is no sense in you living in fear and being anxious and that's exactly what you would be doing.

when i took this girl back, i "traded" her for another dog that had been in rescue for a few weeks. that was 5 months ago and i couldn't be happier with her. not only has she bonded to me, she has bonded to my senior girl and they are best friends.

good luck to you, i know how hard this can be but again, you have to have peace in your household.

I agree with everything ninapearl said. I took a dog back after a week too. I felt bad, but it was the right thing to do for all concerned. The rescue I used was also fine with me bringing her back. They want successes.

cal_dreamer, it takes a lot of guts to admit that a dog is too much for you, so bravos to you for doing the right thing for you and the dog. There are indeed dogs that require very skilled owners. It sounds to me like you got a dog with the wrong energy level for your home, which happens some times.

You are doing the right thing, so don't beat yourself up about it.

If you feel you cannot train/control the dog, by all means, return it to the shelter. And do not feel bad. You tried---and probably will get another shelter dog.

I have the knowlege and ability to rehabilitate very aggressive dogs. At one time, however, I did not have the time and returned one myself. It was better than allowing the dog to get worse.

One of my DIL's recently adopted a rescued beagle. They already have an older beagle, so she thought she knew enough. After a year, it was obvious the dog was not working out, so she found it a good home. She cried a long time because of that decision. But, it was the safest way for her son and his friends.

Now, she has found a beautiful mutt, not a beagle, but in just three weeks has been absorbed into the family seamlessly. A much better solution.

Please talk to someone in charge at the rescue you go your pup from and let them knkow in detail what happened so they can work on the issues with the pup.
Next - you have experienced something traumatic like that and have a hard time getting over it so that you dont trust the dog, then the dog is going to pick that up and you will be stuck at square one.
So, I support your decision to take the dog back. *I have also had to take a dog back (severe seperation anxiety - so bad that even left in a car with other dogs this dog would rip her fur out - horrible - we worked with her for 6 months and got nowhere. However when I took her back, I dropped off a 3 page letter detailing the issues and suggested she be place in a home for developmentally disabled or some other residential facilty where she would ever be alone.)
Your job one is to protect your family and their friends when they are at your home and you are doing just that. Move on, find another pup and enjoy.

Thank you all so much for the words of support. Last night I almost had myself convinced to keep him, but this morning I realized that taking him back is the right thing.

I was walking both dogs down the sidewalk and noticed three women walking toward me. One section gets narrow due to low bushes on both sides, so I took a few steps up a driveway, had the dogs sit, and waited for them to pass. One woman said "what nice dogs!". Layla wagged her tail and Mr. Psycho, out of nowhere, proceded to growl and snarl like the devil (as I got glared at by the lady.) At least he stayed in a sit and didn't lunge at her.

Handymac - you're right. I don't have time and/or enough knowledge to train him right now. The Jekyll & Hyde thing is out of my league. Also, the dogs are together unsupervised for 7 hours a day, and I can tell by Layla's demeanor that he's been pushing her around. Even in the house he'll stand over her or nudge her aside to get to me. She doesn't need to live with a bully, after the tough start in life she had (she's a rescue too, and I've had her for 2 months. She's really come out of her shell but is now starting to go back in and avoid eye contact sometimes.)

And yes, I am getting another rescue dog. I'll have two to look at on Friday after I return him - and do a short meet & greet. Layla's foster mom told me she has a very sweet, slightly submissive male just coming out of quarantine that she thinks might be a good match for her. She'll even hold him until I recover from this ordeal and am ready to take him home if I like him (and more importantly, if Layla likes him.)

Now that the decision is final, there is a big weight off my shoulders. I'm going to be a good foster-mom and keep working on Psycho's manners, give him a good brushing, and play fetch a lot. I also won't walk him near anyone, keep visitors out of the house, and give Layla lots of reassurance until we take him back Friday. I know things will work out for the best.

i'm glad to see this! it does sound like this dog has some serious problems and make sure you let the rescue people know what his behavior has been like.

you say they are unsupervised for 7 hours a day...are you crating him (or layla) during that time? if you aren't already (and i'm sure you are), you should definitely keep them separated. after the first time my other rescue lashed out at my senior girl, i did NOT leave them alone, loose in the house when i had to be gone. rescue girl got crated, i was so afraid of coming home to a bloodbath.

good luck with the slightly submissive male! sounds like he might be just the ticket for you. :)

Some dogs should be put down -- not returned to a shelter where someone else adopting it might not be so lucky. Why do you suppose it was at the shelter to begin with?

My daughter got a Husky several years ago that had been returned three times! She was determined, however and still has the dog. It hasn't eaten a small child yet, but they have to put the dog away any time someone comes to visit and always hope it doesn't escape from the fenced yard. What a way to live.

carmen, some maybe but not necessarily this one.

the time it happened to us, i had visited this dog (rotti/lab mix) at the shelter several times over a period of a week. he seemed perfect so we brought him home.

after 3 days and no problems, the dog was sitting next to my husband's chair. he was petting him. for no apparent reason, the dog stood up, snarled, pinned him against a wall. i shudder to think what would have happened had i not been there.

i returned the dog. he went to live with a single woman at her home in the country where he lived a long and happy life with never a problem.

To help out with any transition. Take your new charge for a walk first thing, so the new addition knows who is boss first thing after meeting you, leash walking is great for getting this across to a new dog in your life. Next, take both dogs for a walk, same thing it gives both dogs a chance to figure things out on neutral territory and reinforces you as boss, Good luck, please let us know how things work out. I hope psycho finds a good home with a good trainer.

Thanks Mazer, I'll definitely do that.

I think the 'problem child' may have fear aggression. This evening we were walking down the sidewalk, and a young boy came down the driveway on a small bike. His sister ran after, excited to see the dogs. I asked them to stay back, because "one of my dogs isn't very nice" as I backed slowly away. The boy on the bike continued to follow me as the dog became more skittish and agitated. I was just waiting for him to snap. I asked the kid to not follow me any more and stay right there until I turned the corner. Thankfully he complied. Although my heart was pounding in my chest, I did my best not to show any fear and walked calmly back home. Last walk for us I'm afraid.

I've been updating the rescue on all of this so they are aware. In the past they steered me away from other dogs, so I'm sure they will be honest with potential adopters. The main foster has a big piece of property, and it wouldn't surprise me if they just kept him there forever.

honey I am the rescue queen, and I totally think you are doing the right thing. I am so happy this forum has been supportive of your decision. Frankly, even having managed a shelter, I TOO have had to return a rescue before. It happens. Many years ago, I got a second aussie as a companion to my other rescued aussie pup, and the new one UTTERLY HATED HIM. AAAck. It really pained me to admit that I couldn't overcome the problem - but I couldn't rescue one animal at the detriment to my other one. "Rooster" DID find a new home - with a Petsmart regional training manager who adopted him as her only pet and developed him for agility. Go figure, there was hope for that dog after all :)

You are totally doing the right thing. Sometimes it's hard for us to admit we have limitations. Handyvac was correct that sometimes it takes special skills to overcome certain aggressions. You will find the right dog for you, and the one you are returning will find his right place as well.

And you all wonder why so many pets are in the shelters. Hmmm.

give it a rest, carmen. would you rather these dogs be kept in the home where they are a danger to children, other pets and even adults?

i am not ashamed to admit i have had to return TWO rescue dogs in my past. i am not a trainer, i am not skilled in rehabilitating problem dogs and i, for one, am not willing to put my family in danger just so people like you can have a clear conscience.

Gee Carmen .... I'd wager that some are in the shelter because they are poorly bred dogs prone to fear aggression. Often the result of a puppy mill or ignorant backyard breeder who had no business breeding their dog. Sound familiar?

Top reason dogs end up in the shelter

1. People insist on breeding dogs, certainly not for the betterment of the breed, but simply because they want to.

2. Dog is poorly bred and has physical or mental problems

3. People are completely irresponsible and don't realize or care that a dog is a lifetime commitment. They don't contain the dog properly or train the dog properly. They view the dog as disposable.

4. Owner's health declines or owner dies

Cal-dreamer's situation probably falls into category #2. This is NOT her fault and she feels she lacks the proper background to take on this responsibility. True responsibility falls on the breeder (I use the term loosely) and the original owner, NOT someone who was trying to do the right thing with the help of a rescue organization and found out she was in over her head.

Some of those puppies you're planning on bringing into the world will fall into category #1. Others will be sold to people who fall into category #3.

I find it completely DEPLORABLE that you'd toss out a little zinger like that knowing full well you're planning on contributing to the problem

Now, who's part of the problem??? Hmmmmmmm

Carmen - how many dogs have you rescued? How did you deal with severe behavior problems? How did you protect your other rescue dog when the second one picks on her? I'd love to hear your experiences and advice.

You do know there is a difference between a shelter and a rescue? If I took him to a local shelter, he'd more than likely be put down in 5 days. By returning him to the rescue, they can further work with him if they think he'll be adoptable, house him for life, or put him down if that is the most humane thing. Meanwhile, I'll be adopting a different dog saved from euthanasia and giving him a great life. You can't save them all.

(6 months ago I was going to purchase a shikoku puppy for 2K. If I had, I wouldn't have rescued the sweetest, most loving border collie on earth, and wouldn't be looking for a companion for her. Would the world have then been in a better place?)

I have rehabilitated several agressive dogs.

The one I have now was so dog aggressive, we let him pick his pack mate from a shelter.

Molly was the sorriest, most unkempt(the shelter could not keep her clean), poorest health dog I have seen in a long time. It was painful to pet her because of the bones sticking out. Against my better judgement, since Max actually wagged his tail instead of growling and hackling like he did with the other choices, we adopted her---spending $125 in the process.

Boy, did I ever get an education! She had no self esteem, was scared of almost everyone and anything in the house and had terrible digestive problems.

Now, we are empty nesters and I am retired, so we have time and situation to try to rehabilitate her.

I would not be surprised if anyone returned a dog like Molly. No aggression, in fact, exactly the opposite. Took me three months to get her to walk on a leash most of the time with out locking up. Found a diet that agrees with her and a way to exercise her(whippet mix and needs a LOT of running).

Would most people want a dog like her. No way. Takes a person/family willing to do unusual things to help a dog like her.

After a year and a half, she is much better, but far from a 'comfortable' dog. Her natural fears get in the way all the time.

But, I now have a bond with her, and Max absolutely loves her. I even took her back to the pound where we got her---the staff could not believe the change.

Most people want a pet, not a rehab job. Taking a dog back is not shameful if you have tried your best.

Handymac, That is so great. I remember you mentioned part of your story on another thread. Taking it to heart I've really been watching Layla's reaction on our meet & greets. I was so happy watching her want to play with him, and he showed absolutely no aggression either time. I knew we'd have to work on manners, but I was ready for that. The fear aggression or whatever it is, is just too much for me. I was terrified he was going to snap at those little kids.

Layla was pretty shut down when we got her. She was scared of a lot of things, and would run cowering under the table if I even turned too fast. She was afraid, but submissive and we have been so thrilled to see her come out of her shell and gain confidence. She still doesn't like most men at first, but she'll just give a low growl or a few warning barks and when I tell her it's OK, she'll just lie down and watch things. Sometimes she goes up to them on her own terms, sometimes not. I'm ok with that, she'll never be one of those dogs who loves everybody.

I'll be driving an hour and a half each way to take him back tomorrow, and while I'm out there I'll check out the other dog. With the millions of unwanted pets out there, I know the right one is out there for us.