Your builder is right about some of the matte finishes. However, it seems like your builder failed to use this new paint he was talking about. And, he is right in saying that matte finishes do a better job of hiding flaws due to a not so good drywall team. Egghsell does a very good job of hiding it also.

Tip: Builders know very little about paint. They know what's cheap. Write that down.

You do have a major problem which is going to get worse. The flats that were used are not washable or scrubbable like the eggshell you wanted. Your nightmare has only begun and that's putting it lightly.

The burnishing will continue with every attempt at washing or scrubbing. The water stains will grow worse.

How can you be rescued? Prime over the flat and repaint in eggshell OR a Regal Matte, Ultra Ceramic, CeramaGuard, etc.

I would invite him over and show him how good his recommended paint is performing. Call him on the carpet, so to speak. Then, politely advise him to not pretend to be an authority on paint. Leave that to the professionals.

Michael

I second what brushworks wrote. We used BM flat paint in our hallways and stairways (3 kids) and it was a nightmare after 1 month; everything burnished, left marks, etc. We cut a deal with the painter, switched to BM Regal Matte (changed the color, too - a definite bonus) and it's been fine ever since; it cleans well, and touches up well. I'm sorry to say, this will not get any better!

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, disappointing as they are. I'm sort of surprised about their reticence to use eggshell - the drywalling job is really very good. (We have very good light, and I'm picky about things like that - and there aren't many problems.)

A couple of other things:

* Why is it necessary to prime back over this? (Just want to sound like I know what I'm talking about when I insist on it!)

* Unfortunately, (and surprisingly) BM is very hard to access here, and none of the ceramics are available. Any other suggestions of quality brands?

Thanks again -

Emily

Emily,

I'm sorry for your experience. Having had flat in our previous house I know exactly what you're going through, and it isn't any fun.

You want to prime to ensure that the next coat of paint will look even and that the current flat walls don't soak up the new paint. The primer acts as a sealer.

Anyway, there are some good online paint stores that provide high quality paint brands. One I use is Cox, linked below. They have Benjamin Moore, along with Farrow & Ball which is an amazingly beautiful paint.

Good luck with it,
Ivette

Here is a link that might be useful: Cox Paint Store

You want to prime to ensure that the next coat of paint will look even and that the current flat walls don't soak up the new paint. The primer acts as a sealer.

That's the reason.

Michael

Thanks Ivette. Unfortunately, with the size of our house (read: quantity of paint needed) I don't think online is a very viable option. We're in a large metropolitan area, so someone must stock another good brand of paint. Thinking about it, I've seen several Sherwin Williams dealers, although I'm not sure it they're as good as BM, etc.

Just to add (but I'm no expert!): if you end up using a matte, I would use eggshell (we used BM pearl finish in our master bathroom and the kids' bathroom areas- I think that it's like eggshell) in those other rooms, the bathrooms, mudroom, and laundry room. I don't know how the matte would stand up to frequent water splashes, etc. I like being able to just wash down the bathroom, kitchen and laundry room areas.

Emily,

It would be a good idea to develop a plan prior to repainting. Different sheens, room purposes, etc. should be considered.

This will help you get it right.

Michael

Thanks for all the additional input. The whole thing is a little strange, although hindsight is always 20/20. I'm 100% sure we discussed eggshell vs flat on two different occasions. I'm 99% sure, but not 100% sure, that I briefly mentioned semi in the "wet" rooms - but since this was such common sense to me, I didn't dwell on it, especially since their finish work is generally very high quality. The hindsight part is that I wish I had it in writing.

Am sure it's going to be harder to convince them to repaint when it involves repriming. There are also two high traffic rooms (ie that I care the most that they repaint) that they had to put 5-8 coats of paint on. (It makes no sense to me, as they knew in advance that they were varying shades of bright yellow, and should have primed appropriately, but that's for another time.)

Will ask one more question, which is definitely more subjective - since we specifically discussed functionality of the paint, and this paint isn't providing that, should I be trying to negotiate for them to repaint at no cost to me? Or is should we rightfully be absorbing some of the cost?

Should be an interesting conversation tomorrow.

Emily

Bring them in to survey the problem and concerns.

Let them make you an offer. If they make you an offer, tell them you need 24 hours to consider it before you respond.

You need to know the brand, series and sheen of all paint used in your house. Get that info! Then you can study the data sheet to determine the quality and servicability of the paint.

Michael

Thanks. Pointed out some of the worst to the builder today, who said he would talk to the painter. (His sub.) They both should be here this afternoon. Stay tuned.

The Velvet Matte has always disappointed me.

You won't be happy with it.

It's says it's scrubbable and washable. But demonstrate that for the painter and the ICI folks. Let them see first hand that the Velvet Matte can't be touched without leaving burnishing marks on it.

Michael

jeez, what a shame. I hope they make it right Emily.

Ivette

I was just searching the paint forum and saw this post. We moved into our new house in Sept 2005. We are currently repainting bathrooms and probably the kitchen because our painter used flat SW paint. The bathrooms show water streaks when someone dries their hands on the towels. The kitchen just looks dull as did the master bathroom. We're using eggshell for the repainting. We spent a lot of money having a 4,000sf house painted. Sigh. That hindsight thing -- we were so burned out by the time the painters were working that we didn't catch the flat paint. I knew better, just was too tired to notice.

While I realize priming is always best I do think that at some point you start to get a seriously diminished return for effort and money.
And I think this is one of those situations.
That with really nice condition dry walls and new primed and painted good paint job smoothness you shouldn't have to prime. The previous primer and paint should have already been sucked into the new walls and sealed them.
I think you should be able to just paint. Priming would be better - but no so much better that you would notice.
Not a professional just lived and painted.

marys,

the flat paint will cause an uneven sheen in the new paint. Primer is used in this situation to prevent the flat paint from absorbing the new coat unevenly.

Michael

This may be sort of off topic about brand name paints. However I was able to pick up two seperate small truck loads of donated water base paint from my county recycling facility. I hauled over 500 pounds of paint per load and put it in my garage til I was ready to mix it. First I used a paint mixer attached to my electric drill then added different brands of white and creamy white primer and flat paints together into a 5 gallon plastic. I made sure each 5 gallon bucket had a lid so the paint wouldnÂt dry out during storage. I ended up with at least four 5 gallon buckets of a beautiful creamy white primer. It is very durable and doesnÂt mar or rub off.
Then after deciding which color for each room I put together the satin finish colors that closely matched my desired room color(s). I had to go to different paint stores for extra tint.
Some of the paint was gloppy and rust around the paint can rims which I used also. Once I was ready to paint I strained it through pantyhose into another clean 5 gallon bucket. Everyone said the paint would be ruined since it sat in an unheated attic and garage for several months. But this paint turned out beautiful on my walls. The painters love painting with the paints that I mixed and said itÂs the best quality paint they have ever used. They canÂt believe how well it has turned out and especially since the outdoor temperature in an unheated house where it was stored has dropped down to 19 degrees a couple of times. IÂm not a fan of painting myself but it has been quite an expience plus lots of fun working with the painters. IÂm glad I stood my ground by insisting on using the paint that I mixed since other painters wanted to use their own brand of paint. Then another painter wanted to spray paint. As a result of using my own paint mixes the walls are gorgeous and the colors add drama to each room.